Having see the replay leading to the winning goal, what on earth was Duggan trying to do by hitting a hopeful long ball right down the middle! She should have kept hold on the ball and try to pick out a team mate close by, failing that just hoof the ball down either of the channels so it will go out for a throw-in.
l would rather concede a goal in the first two minutes of extra time than the last two minutes of normal time!
I've been impressed by the skills on show by the top 4 teams - USA, France, Germany, Japan. All of them can play at a level you can see in some men's national teams.
France and Japan do lack clinical strikers.
England were not at the same level in terms of ball skills but made up for it by teamwork and effort, and they have an excellent manager in Mark Sampson.
Even a 1-0 defeat by France was a good result. France V Germany showed that France are one of the top two teams.
Japan are a better side but England looked more likely to win during the second half.
So I think the England team performed at their best and prevented Japan doing the same.
As for the own-goal, if it had been 1" higher, it wouldn't have gone in. These things happen - Laura Basset had to attempt to clear it but had to stretch to do it so you can't expect perfect control. England hit the Japan bar twice and had a good chance with the header that was just outside the post and Jodie Taylor's early effort. Any of those going in and the own goal doesn't matter as much.
England have over-achieved. You can second guess tactics and selections but the bottom line is - they got further than they should have. I think Sampson got the tactics pretty much correct. Sampson is very good as a motivator and team builder and in the absence of brilliant players, that is what can get results for England.
He is also brilliant at talking to the press. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwuNgmXzpw
As someone who has always found women's football unbearable and after the France game thought both the England team and the manager were a joke, I must say that they have completely won me over!
I stayed up to watch the game and was in tears by the end of it. Those girls showed so much fight and determination that I have last seen from English men in 1998. Their tactics were spot on, they were composed and didn't panic after conceding goals, they fought for every ball and left absolutely everything on the field.
The men's attitude (and Hodgson's "tactics") were a real shambles in comparison.
First question when they get off the plane: Hi girls, do you prefer to be congratulated for how well you did or to just be used as fodder to attack the men's team? Only there's this forum
I think in 1966 England made a pact with the Devil that if that Wembley goal stood English football would be cursed forever. So much bad luck is not normal!
First question when they get off the plane: Hi girls, do you prefer to be congratulated for how well you did or to just be used as fodder to attack the men's team? Only there's this forum
Not that I agree with comparing the men's to the women's game, seeing as they should be seen on their own merits, but why are some posters here so overly sensitive about it? It's as if a sore has been touched. Just rise above it and shrug it off, and let the men concentrate on their game.
Praise that's merely relative to something else isn't praise. When Murray won Wimbledon it'd be a bit amiss if half the people were just telling Sue Barker to shove it.
Not that I agree with comparing the men's to the women's game, seeing as they should be seen on their own merits, but why are some posters here so overly sensitive about it? It's as if a sore has been touched. Just rise above it and shrug it off, and let the men concentrate on their game.
Speaking for myself its because at the beginning of the tournament whenever I mentioned the standard being poor I was told that it was completely unfair end ridiculous to compare the standard of the men's and women's games. This was repeated over and over right up until the point that the English women seemed to be doing well and now people are springing up all over the place saying how it puts the men to shame etc etc.
Speaking for myself its because at the beginning of the tournament whenever I mentioned the standard being poor I was told that it was completely unfair end ridiculous to compare the standard of the men's and women's games. This was repeated over and over right up until the point that the English women seemed to be doing well and now people are springing up all over the place saying how it puts the men to shame etc etc.
Its the double standards that annoy.
Nobody is comparing the women's skills to the men's because obviously the women's game is infinitely inferior, but.... What people are comparing is the level of sheer determination, hard work and pride the women showed playing for England, which was completely missing from the men in the last 2 World Cups at least. It's like at the London Olympics all those incredible British athletes went over and above what was humanly possible or expected of them to win whereas the men's football team moved at snails pace as if they could barely be bothered to scratch themselves.
It's the heroic efford that these girls put into this World Cup against all the odds that people are praising.
Having see the replay leading to the winning goal, what on earth was Duggan trying to do by hitting a hopeful long ball right down the middle! She should have kept hold on the ball and try to pick out a team mate close by, failing that just hoof the ball down either of the channels so it will go out for a throw-in.
l would rather concede a goal in the first two minutes of extra time than the last two minutes of normal time!
I think Duggan was tired. The pundits had expected her to be subbed during the second half. But you could also argue why had England pushed up so high. They should have been seeing out the 90 mins not attacking.
The next stage after the World Cup euphoria has died down a little, is for the WSL to pick up the slack, and to carry on this momentum.
The clubs there need to try and do more to encourage people to go the game and to support their clubs.
Personally, and I am only speaking for myself here, I would love to go and watch my teams Ladies side, but it seems for some unfathomable reason, they are totally against it, which I am not at all happy with.
It means that I am left with the option of supporting a different team in the men's game (Man United), and women's game (Everton, or Man City), which is a bit strange.
But as I say, that is totally my own problem, and for me alone to try and figure out.
Hopefully, other people will after this tournament go and support their teams women side, and from there we could see the overall standard improve, as it will only do so if people back the Ladies in as many ways as they can.
Praise that's merely relative to something else isn't praise. When Murray won Wimbledon it'd be a bit amiss if half the people were just telling Sue Barker to shove it.
Speaking of Wimbledon, the tactics of England reminded me of their's from the 80s without some of the dirtiness, or Norway under Egil Olsen. It was real throwback, ugly but effective and they could easily have got the win when they had those 3 second-half chances in quick succession. Not very often you'll concede 2 while coughing up so few chances as well.
Not that there's a nice way to lose, of course, but an OG in the last minute of a World Cup semi final? Could there be a worse way?
I feel a sense of outrage at the situation. Another injustice like France's defeat to Germany.
In the second half there was a period of something like 5 minutes when England were virtually 'peppering' the Japanese goal. When none of these went in I started to wonder.
However, approaching full time I fully expected England to go on and win it in extra time.
I watched the last 10 minutes live and was proper gutted for them. You had to feel for Laura Bassett, she was absolutely devastated, it was awful to watch...:( after everything they'd achieved, for it to come down to something so cruel! The cameras flying towards her when she was crying was a bit uncalled for...
Nothing but praise should be heaped on the England team! Why are people being so picky about it?? I hope the girls can come back after this and smash the 3rd place playoff.
Just finished watching the match. The cruelest way to go out. Absolutely gutted for them especially Laura Bassett. They can hold their heads up high. So proud of them all.
The next stage after the World Cup euphoria has died down a little, is for the WSL to pick up the slack, and to carry on this momentum.
The clubs there need to try and do more to encourage people to go the game and to support their clubs.
Personally, and I am only speaking for myself here, I would love to go and watch my teams Ladies side, but it seems for some unfathomable reason, they are totally against it, which I am not at all happy with.
It means that I am left with the option of supporting a different team in the men's game (Man United), and women's game (Everton, or Man City), which is a bit strange.
But as I say, that is totally my own problem, and for me alone to try and figure out.
Hopefully, other people will after this tournament go and support their teams women side, and from there we could see the overall standard improve, as it will only do so if people back the Ladies in as many ways as they can.
I agree with you Batdude. If these 'big clubs' are still the community clubs that they like to pretend they are, then setting up well funded women's teams should be a duty rather than an inconvenience. May be the lionesses success and popularity will change a few hearts and minds.
I watched the last 10 minutes live and was proper gutted for them. You had to feel for Laura Bassett, she was absolutely devastated, it was awful to watch...:( after everything they'd achieved, for it to come down to something so cruel! The cameras flying towards her when she was crying was a bit uncalled for...
Nothing but praise should be heaped on the England team! Why are people being so picky about it?? I hope the girls can come back after this and smash the 3rd place playoff.
I think it was a lot uncalled for. That's journalists for you though. Simlarly when someone has suffered some sort of tragedy and hold a press conference. The instant it looks as though someone is about to burst into tears, that's when the cameras start snapping. The press have no integrity whatsoever.
Actually I thought England played ok in the World Cup last year on occasions - unlucky to lose to Italy and Uruguay in a way.
Trouble is you know we probably won't learn from it and have the same problems next year with the usual excuses (much like the England Under 21s)
Ladies have clearly learnt from what was an average performance against France and made strong progress.
The test will be can they keep making the semis of major tournament to make sure this wasn't just a one off?
Err... Maybe England's expectations were so low that their WC performance last year (1 point!) can be classed as "OK" but I didn't think they played OK at all. They were OK against Italy, but they had absolutely no plan about what to do with Pirlo or Suarez when they played Uruguay and it was the usual English kick and rush style which for me is personified in Sterling - runs very fast but that's it. No tactics, no plan, no desire to win. England teams have been getting progressively worse since 1996, but were still great to watch up until 2002. 2006 was OK-ish, but 2010 and 2014 were shocking.
Ofcourse overall the general outcome was very disappointed.
Our main problem is some think we are better than we are and just have to turn up to win.
Even Roy Hodgson questioned if Suarez was world class before the Uruguay games - rather sums up the attitude and as you suggest we failed to deal with such players,
Anyway that was last year - least we saw an England team with a general plan and a manager tactically prepared to change things and take risks with the ladies.
Nobody is comparing the women's skills to the men's because obviously the women's game is infinitely inferior, but.... What people are comparing is the level of sheer determination, hard work and pride the women showed playing for England, which was completely missing from the men in the last 2 World Cups at least. It's like at the London Olympics all those incredible British athletes went over and above what was humanly possible or expected of them to win whereas the men's football team moved at snails pace as if they could barely be bothered to scratch themselves.
It's the heroic efford that these girls put into this World Cup against all the odds that people are praising.
I am aware but you are completely missing the point.
You can either compare the two or you can't. You don't pick and choose. It can't be wrong for me to compare the standard of the men's and women's because the women's is relatively poor but ok to compare determination because its perceived that the women's is better (or comparable). Personally I disagree about the determination thing too but that is beside the point.
The next stage after the World Cup euphoria has died down a little, is for the WSL to pick up the slack, and to carry on this momentum.
The clubs there need to try and do more to encourage people to go the game and to support their clubs.
Personally, and I am only speaking for myself here, I would love to go and watch my teams Ladies side, but it seems for some unfathomable reason, they are totally against it, which I am not at all happy with.
It means that I am left with the option of supporting a different team in the men's game (Man United), and women's game (Everton, or Man City), which is a bit strange.
But as I say, that is totally my own problem, and for me alone to try and figure out.
Hopefully, other people will after this tournament go and support their teams women side, and from there we could see the overall standard improve, as it will only do so if people back the Ladies in as many ways as they can.
There is obviously no demand for it or Man Utd would probably have one. I don't think there is any relationship between supporting a football team and then also supporting the equivalent women's side anyway.
Comments
l would rather concede a goal in the first two minutes of extra time than the last two minutes of normal time!
Typical English football loss of composure under pressure.
You watched the game after going the pub, right?
Admittedly I've touched a shouldn't or two in my time.
France and Japan do lack clinical strikers.
England were not at the same level in terms of ball skills but made up for it by teamwork and effort, and they have an excellent manager in Mark Sampson.
Even a 1-0 defeat by France was a good result. France V Germany showed that France are one of the top two teams.
Japan are a better side but England looked more likely to win during the second half.
So I think the England team performed at their best and prevented Japan doing the same.
As for the own-goal, if it had been 1" higher, it wouldn't have gone in. These things happen - Laura Basset had to attempt to clear it but had to stretch to do it so you can't expect perfect control. England hit the Japan bar twice and had a good chance with the header that was just outside the post and Jodie Taylor's early effort. Any of those going in and the own goal doesn't matter as much.
England have over-achieved. You can second guess tactics and selections but the bottom line is - they got further than they should have. I think Sampson got the tactics pretty much correct. Sampson is very good as a motivator and team builder and in the absence of brilliant players, that is what can get results for England.
He is also brilliant at talking to the press. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCwuNgmXzpw
I stayed up to watch the game and was in tears by the end of it.
The men's attitude (and Hodgson's "tactics") were a real shambles in comparison.
I'm now a converted England Women supporter!
Not that I agree with comparing the men's to the women's game, seeing as they should be seen on their own merits, but why are some posters here so overly sensitive about it? It's as if a sore has been touched. Just rise above it and shrug it off, and let the men concentrate on their game.
Speaking for myself its because at the beginning of the tournament whenever I mentioned the standard being poor I was told that it was completely unfair end ridiculous to compare the standard of the men's and women's games. This was repeated over and over right up until the point that the English women seemed to be doing well and now people are springing up all over the place saying how it puts the men to shame etc etc.
Its the double standards that annoy.
Nobody is comparing the women's skills to the men's because obviously the women's game is infinitely inferior, but.... What people are comparing is the level of sheer determination, hard work and pride the women showed playing for England, which was completely missing from the men in the last 2 World Cups at least. It's like at the London Olympics all those incredible British athletes went over and above what was humanly possible or expected of them to win whereas the men's football team moved at snails pace as if they could barely be bothered to scratch themselves.
It's the heroic efford that these girls put into this World Cup against all the odds that people are praising.
Trouble is you know we probably won't learn from it and have the same problems next year with the usual excuses (much like the England Under 21s)
Ladies have clearly learnt from what was an average performance against France and made strong progress.
The test will be can they keep making the semis of major tournament to make sure this wasn't just a one off?
No, I just have big fingers, which doesn't help with the touchpad!
The clubs there need to try and do more to encourage people to go the game and to support their clubs.
Personally, and I am only speaking for myself here, I would love to go and watch my teams Ladies side, but it seems for some unfathomable reason, they are totally against it, which I am not at all happy with.
It means that I am left with the option of supporting a different team in the men's game (Man United), and women's game (Everton, or Man City), which is a bit strange.
But as I say, that is totally my own problem, and for me alone to try and figure out.
Hopefully, other people will after this tournament go and support their teams women side, and from there we could see the overall standard improve, as it will only do so if people back the Ladies in as many ways as they can.
Speaking of Wimbledon, the tactics of England reminded me of their's from the 80s without some of the dirtiness, or Norway under Egil Olsen. It was real throwback, ugly but effective and they could easily have got the win when they had those 3 second-half chances in quick succession. Not very often you'll concede 2 while coughing up so few chances as well.
What a horrible, horrible way to lose!
Not that there's a nice way to lose, of course, but an OG in the last minute of a World Cup semi final? Could there be a worse way?
I feel a sense of outrage at the situation. Another injustice like France's defeat to Germany.
In the second half there was a period of something like 5 minutes when England were virtually 'peppering' the Japanese goal. When none of these went in I started to wonder.
However, approaching full time I fully expected England to go on and win it in extra time.
Then that happened!
Nothing but praise should be heaped on the England team! Why are people being so picky about it?? I hope the girls can come back after this and smash the 3rd place playoff.
I think it was a lot uncalled for. That's journalists for you though. Simlarly when someone has suffered some sort of tragedy and hold a press conference. The instant it looks as though someone is about to burst into tears, that's when the cameras start snapping. The press have no integrity whatsoever.
Err... Maybe England's expectations were so low that their WC performance last year (1 point!) can be classed as "OK" but I didn't think they played OK at all. They were OK against Italy, but they had absolutely no plan about what to do with Pirlo or Suarez when they played Uruguay and it was the usual English kick and rush style which for me is personified in Sterling - runs very fast but that's it. No tactics, no plan, no desire to win. England teams have been getting progressively worse since 1996, but were still great to watch up until 2002. 2006 was OK-ish, but 2010 and 2014 were shocking.
Ofcourse overall the general outcome was very disappointed.
Our main problem is some think we are better than we are and just have to turn up to win.
Even Roy Hodgson questioned if Suarez was world class before the Uruguay games - rather sums up the attitude and as you suggest we failed to deal with such players,
Anyway that was last year - least we saw an England team with a general plan and a manager tactically prepared to change things and take risks with the ladies.
I am aware but you are completely missing the point.
You can either compare the two or you can't. You don't pick and choose. It can't be wrong for me to compare the standard of the men's and women's because the women's is relatively poor but ok to compare determination because its perceived that the women's is better (or comparable). Personally I disagree about the determination thing too but that is beside the point.
There is obviously no demand for it or Man Utd would probably have one. I don't think there is any relationship between supporting a football team and then also supporting the equivalent women's side anyway.