Who was most to blame for getting Doctor Who axed in 1989?
rip & strip
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I was inspired to this having heard Michael Grade's discussion over the 1985 decision to 'rest' the show - unfortunately none of the 80s production staff are involved, but RTD, the Moff and those execs responsible for reviving it are.
I always think that too many people (both fans & non-fans) mistakenly remember Grade as the man who axed "Doctor Who", when in fact his earlier decision always intended it to return refreshed and it was successor, Jonathan Powell that actually pulled the plug.
However, not only that but I'd say it was Powell who was especially eager to see it go and I strongly suspect ensured the 'refresh' never occurred (we also got a cut in eps rather than an increase in budget as Grade seems to imply was needed), whether as head of series/serials or as BBC One Controller.
Whose decision was it to hold on to the same production/creative staff from JNT down (ISTR JNT wanted to leave during the hiatus & take over at Crossroads), sack the lead actor and schedule against "Coronation St"?
Here's the relevant part of Monday's BBC Radio documentary, though the whole hour is up at iPlayer until late on the 7th May.
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/michael-grade-on-box.html
I know there are lots of viewpoints in these last few years of the classic series and why it sunk (so will attached a poll), but my finger points squarely at Jonathan Powell.
The poll options will be
MICHAEL GRADE
JNT
JONATHAN POWELL
COLIN BAKER
SYLVESTER McCOY
ERIC SAWARD
OTHER
but comment if you do feel the blame lies elsewhere
I always think that too many people (both fans & non-fans) mistakenly remember Grade as the man who axed "Doctor Who", when in fact his earlier decision always intended it to return refreshed and it was successor, Jonathan Powell that actually pulled the plug.
However, not only that but I'd say it was Powell who was especially eager to see it go and I strongly suspect ensured the 'refresh' never occurred (we also got a cut in eps rather than an increase in budget as Grade seems to imply was needed), whether as head of series/serials or as BBC One Controller.
Whose decision was it to hold on to the same production/creative staff from JNT down (ISTR JNT wanted to leave during the hiatus & take over at Crossroads), sack the lead actor and schedule against "Coronation St"?
Here's the relevant part of Monday's BBC Radio documentary, though the whole hour is up at iPlayer until late on the 7th May.
http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/michael-grade-on-box.html
I know there are lots of viewpoints in these last few years of the classic series and why it sunk (so will attached a poll), but my finger points squarely at Jonathan Powell.
The poll options will be
MICHAEL GRADE
JNT
JONATHAN POWELL
COLIN BAKER
SYLVESTER McCOY
ERIC SAWARD
OTHER
but comment if you do feel the blame lies elsewhere
Who was most to blame for getting Doctor Who axed in 1989? 87 votes
MICHAEL GRADE
47%
41 votes
JNT
14%
13 votes
JONATHAN POWELL
11%
10 votes
COLIN BAKER
3%
3 votes
SYLVESTER McCOY
5%
5 votes
ERIC SAWARD
0%
0 votes
OTHER
17%
15 votes
0
Comments
Sorry I'm a bit confused by the line I put in bold. Do you mean they were involved in the discussion with Michael Grade?
On a whole I find it hard to pin-point who was responsible. However, all the accusations the 6th floor make about the quality of the show, that suggest it dug its own grave, seem ridiculous given they wouldn't give it a decent budget. One reason Powell cites for this is because there seemed to be no one involved in making the programme who was passionate about it. I don't believe that for one second considering all the great ideas Cartmel and crew had. Powell has such obvious disdain for it, I doubt very much he made much effort to find out what these ideas were.
on the Radio 2 documentary, yes. RTD and the Moff specifically comment on the 1985 situation.
Sorry, if I was a bit garbled there:o
a lot of talent and effort went into the revival and that is why it was successful. not many people argued with it at the time.
I actually think that might have been the case with season 24, and am surprised it made it to 26 on the basis of that season. However, season 26 showed that it was more than capable of going forward with good stories and a darker angle.
What was there view on the quality of the show in 85?
I agree, there might have been some justice if the series had gone down after a fairly cack-handed run of episodes in 1985. But to come-back arguably worse in 1986 and then gradually get really rather good it made it even worse.
(I should point out here I hold Colin Baker himself in no way responsible, just in case that looks like my common denominator just now)
Steven calls it 'charmless' - but best to listen to it all in context.
I think Colin should be thanked for making the Trial season bearable to watch.
Ultimately, the death knell came from Grades hatred of the show, which was impacted by his hatred for Colin Baker.
However, I think JNTs continued involvement sealed its fate and his less than inciteful vision. He should have stepped down after 5 imo, but I get the impression that in the end he believed he was the show and it couldn't survive without him!
Apart from McCoy (sorry McCoy fans) his choices for the actor to play the Doctor were sound, but his lack of vision in terms of drama and suspense and his serious flaws in casting the supporting cast (not the assistants, apart from Ace - Sorry guys, not a fan of 7's era at all thought I do't blame the actors).
I think JNT was unable to provide a credible forward plan for the series and could not talk the talk with the bigwigs!
So, JNT if I had to choose but I would split it with Grade if I could!
I wouldn't call the 1985 season 'charmless'. I actually like the relationship between The Doctor and Peri, and Revelation of The Daleks and Attack of the Cybermen are favourites of mine.
I have often wondered if JNT thought his love for the show was all that was needed, without considering what was really best for it. However, I am fond of 7 and Ace
Revelation was the best of a bad bunch for me - it showed some spark & black humour - but I'm with Steven otherwise.
I'm a huge fan of the show but - in 1989, when I was 19 - I did give up on that final season. I just didn't buy McCoy as the Doctor (indeed, to be really harsh, I didn't buy him as an actor). And the show really seemed to be done on too small a budget.
It really did feel like a show that was better suited for kids TV than family viewing. So when it quietly failed to return to the screen, I don't think the British public (and even a lot of die hard fans like me) were engaged enough to act.
I'm not going to deny there were issues with Season 22 with the violence etc but I always have felt it was something that could have been sorted out with either replacing JNT at the end of the Season or having a meeting with him to explain what was going wrong and demanding it get put right during the following year.
The decision to axe it initially and then put it on hiatus instead was an excessive one by a man who had issues with both the show and the lead actor.
What happened with that decision was that it added a stigma to the show which lasted all the way until it finished. Keeping JNT on the show when he wanted to leave also didn't help when a fresh Producer could have picked the show up and made it better after Baker's axing.
Season 24 in my opinion was awful and I put a lot of that down to the axing as well where McCoy didn't have time to find his feet in the role despite being the best thing in it and there were very little chance for any proper plans for the Season to be put down. Things did improve in the following two years but it was too late by then and putting it against Corrie definitely didn't help.
Though some of these later issues can't be put directly at Grade's door, it's still my view that they all a domino effect from his decision in the first place with his decision in 1985. :rolleyes:
Damn you Snowball!!! :mad:
*shakes fist*
JNT:
was there WAY too long and made to many bad ideas,Dragging out to many old Monsters rather the making new ones,Some dodgy stunt casting,But his Casting of His three doctors were Spot on.and was stuck with..
Eric Saward:
Who's Stories were Basicaly the same and Comissioned some bad writers!
And constantly In disagreement with his JNT.
Micheal Grade/Jonathan Powell:
They HATED it!!
Never saw it Potiental and refused to provide money to inprove it!
Despite the cash it brought the bbc!
and also Grade had a personal agenda with Colin Baker.
In honesty the show needed new ideas to bring it forward and no-one wanted to work to Inprove it,JNT wanted to Leave,Grade wanted rid of it so it was in a limbo.
You feel for Colin and Sylvester you cant help thinking that the series would have been better if They got to play it the way they Wanted.
I mean a Colin Baker in a black suit,Abit more toned down would have been Excellent with a good script ask big finish.
You got to see how good McCoy was in his last season as well as Big Finish.
The one question i always ask would The show been put on hold if Davison stayed one more season?...
If they used the same episodes, then yes.
On the strength of Caves, probably not but then, would Caves have been that good if it wasn't for the regeneration undertone?
Not sure about that tbh. With a familiar Doctor and a different performance, it might have made all the difference!
However, really? It's nobodies fault, it's an extremly old show and just needed a rest. It's now back and it's doing rather well, and so in a way it's not a bad thing it did get a break
Not sure about this one, it's a hard one to call. With the same episodes, and with Davison there instead, I think possibly the violence would have been drastically reduced as he was a more pacifist Doctor. I think Season 22 was written to accommodate a tougher Doctor accordingly so I'm not so sure if it would happened. A lot of Grade's venom was aimed at Baker as well, so maybe with a Doctor he may have respected more in the role, who was at the top of his game in the 80's, he may have decidedly differently, but that's just speculation on my part.
I agree. You can't blame them for circumstances totally out of their control, especially in Baker's case. I thought they were both very good Doctor's who with the right circumstances could have been up there with the more Popular Doctors.
It needed a major reboot (as they've done with New Who), it's just a shame it took them so long to do it.
I've never really understood the point of expecting people to watch something they don't like just because they're fans. I like star trek very much. From the seventies reruns of tos and the animated series, the movies and next gen etc. But didn't enjoy Enterprise and didn't bother to watch it much - actually yawned through much of voyager now I think of it. ( What I didn't do, I should add, is watch every episode then bitch about the production team and actors on trek forums!
But my main point is that for shows on mainstream mass audience channels , particularly back before multi channels, a few tens or hundreds of thousands of people tuning in come what may isn't going to turn the tide. the show was in all sorts of bother.
Sorry - sounds like I didn't like your post. I did. but it made me think.