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The state of the Catholic Church in Scotland
PorkchopExpress
Posts: 5,534 Forum Member
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I've always been a churchgoer and have been relatively warm towards the Church itself. The credibility of the Church has been severely damaged over the last decade and the any moral authority it ever had is largely gone.
This has never put me off from attending Mass as it's a chance to reflect, pray and contemplate God, regardless of what's going on politically with regard to the Church itself.
Over the last few years or so though it's become more or a chore. I blame priests. When they reflect on falling Church attendances I wonder their own behaviour even crosses their mind for a second as a potential reason. There are some fantastic priests who are genuinely decent, nice people. But they seem to be in a minority.
On a few occasions over the last few years I have ventured to approach a priest about one thing or another. On almost every occasion I've been made to feel like an absolute nuisance and the process itself has been painful. They just seem to have no people skills. Not all, but certainly the majority in my experience.
Which brings me to even more frustration in the last couple of months. The sermons I've had to listening to have been utterly dreadful. If they aren't moaning about people not coming to mass they're hectoring and badgering those who actually are there about not doing enough to get more people to turn up. It's like a stream of passive aggressive criticism from people who are themselves remarkably flawed in judgement and outlook. There's absolutely no humility either, in spite of everything that's happened.
Last week in St Margaret's in Airdrie I had to listen to a priest lamenting about how "Christmas has been banned in Birmingham" for fear of offending the "Asian community". Resentful nonsense about how the "Asian community" don't give up their festivals for fear of offending us etc etc and how it was all our fault for allowing it. Just utterly moronic.
Honestly, I despair of them at times. Listening to garbage many of these people spout actually detracts from the Mass itself because I sit there fizzing.
There needs to be massive change. Starting with allowing married priests to increase the calibre and depth of the candidate pool for priesthood.
This has never put me off from attending Mass as it's a chance to reflect, pray and contemplate God, regardless of what's going on politically with regard to the Church itself.
Over the last few years or so though it's become more or a chore. I blame priests. When they reflect on falling Church attendances I wonder their own behaviour even crosses their mind for a second as a potential reason. There are some fantastic priests who are genuinely decent, nice people. But they seem to be in a minority.
On a few occasions over the last few years I have ventured to approach a priest about one thing or another. On almost every occasion I've been made to feel like an absolute nuisance and the process itself has been painful. They just seem to have no people skills. Not all, but certainly the majority in my experience.
Which brings me to even more frustration in the last couple of months. The sermons I've had to listening to have been utterly dreadful. If they aren't moaning about people not coming to mass they're hectoring and badgering those who actually are there about not doing enough to get more people to turn up. It's like a stream of passive aggressive criticism from people who are themselves remarkably flawed in judgement and outlook. There's absolutely no humility either, in spite of everything that's happened.
Last week in St Margaret's in Airdrie I had to listen to a priest lamenting about how "Christmas has been banned in Birmingham" for fear of offending the "Asian community". Resentful nonsense about how the "Asian community" don't give up their festivals for fear of offending us etc etc and how it was all our fault for allowing it. Just utterly moronic.
Honestly, I despair of them at times. Listening to garbage many of these people spout actually detracts from the Mass itself because I sit there fizzing.
There needs to be massive change. Starting with allowing married priests to increase the calibre and depth of the candidate pool for priesthood.
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The faith is on it's last legs. Nothing to do with Asians. Nothing to with anyone other than the people who have chosen to reject the faith.
I was in the BBs growing up so have some experience of the CoS. It was ok but seemed tired and lacklustre 20 years ago so I don't imagine it's in great shape now.
They should focus more on God and less on telling people who bad and sinful we all apparently are.
Not the same thing at all.
In our neck of the woods catholic lay people are running the food bank, furnishing accommodation for the homeless, paying for family breaks, taking people to hospital, visiting old people in homes, etc, etc. None of this is dependent on the quality of the sermon on any given Sunday.
They seem to be blaming the Asian community for their own mismanagement & loss of followers!
Maybe you should just have a personal religion where the interaction is between you and your notion of God and Jesus and keep the middle-man out of things altogether. Wasn't Jesus supposed to be of the same opinion with all the "there is no path to God but through me stuff"? I don't think he meant the actual church institution that would be set up in his name centuries later (I might be wrong though). I always assumed it was about ignoring the trappings and buildings and sermons of others and considering God and Jesus on your own terms through your own reflection.
(I'm not christian so I'm not trying to convert, just trying to think of where you would feel best suited. It seems like you follow the christian faith but find the actual church and priests a bit lacking. Cut them out then. If you have belief in the bible then you can read it and interpret it yourself. You don't need a middle man to put his own spin on things.)
Read the newsletter during the sermon.
It's not, that's what I'm saying.
Agreed. In such an important position with people who look up to them, an awful lot of them have fallen from grace a bit. They need some positive PR or (even better) they need to start rooting out the ones who are wolves in sheep's clothing. At least the new pope has acknowledged that there is a problem there.
My issue with middle-men or priests is that they are taking the bible which is the interpretations of the writers of the word of God, which has probably been through a few rewrites (more interpretation and chance of dilution), then mixing it with their own ideas and interpretation in order to deliver a message which you must then interpret yourself. It's spiritual Chinese Whispers.
If I had faith then I'd try to go the direct route myself because when people start telling you what to think then you are very reliant on them being sensible, honest, benevolent and all those things and not corrupting the message towards their own ends.
No worries, then...... except it is obviously bothering you, or you wouldn't have started the thread.
Only a tiny minority of priests abuse children. A far more sizeable problem is the enforced loneliness that priesthood brings. People should be free to live their lives as celibate, single people if that's what they feel comfortable with, but I do believe priests should be allowed to marry and lead normal family lives if they so wish. The loneliness often leads to alcoholism within the priesthood in my experience.
The lifestyle of the priest attracts oddballs and people who would struggle to fit in with mainstream society. When I was growing up, a lot of priests around here were Irish, because there was a tradition in those days in Ireland that at least one boy from every family would become a priest. Now that is dying off, and there is a real shortage of priests around here, and it's easy to see why.
The sermons are often deadly dull and totally irrelevant to our lives and even Biblical teaching. I've also become increasingly uncomfortable with the Catholic obsession with Mary as I've got older.
I'm thinking of joining another church, though I'm not sure which one. My mother, who converted to Catholicism as a young adult, tries to defend the Catholic Church publicly but agrees with me deep down.
People being dicks bothers me, whether it's in a church, on TV or in supermarket car parks (don't ask).
I agree with almost all of that but personally am entirely comfortable with the status Mary has in the Catholic Church. She has the same status in the Eastern Rite too I believe.
You now have the internet where you can look up the origins of the Catholic Church.
Have a look round the fall of the Roman Empire and Constantine.