When you look at the low price of commodities, specifically steel and oil, that usually sell very high in good economic times (because demand from manufacturers is high) i do wonder if this slow worldwide recovery isnt remotely sustainable and things could get a bit nasty again soon.
All of us old enough to remember the unemployed ghost towns & villages in 80s after pit closures wish something good for the newly unemployed in Redcar
My memory of the 70s and 80s in terms of forced redundancies was that there were some very good offers made in terms of payments, both immediate and long term. I doubt the redundancies today will pay out anything like the level that was given then. Yes whole communities lost the main employer but people have to move for employment all the time. A community has no intrinsic right to exist.
Had it been down south it would have been pumped with cash long before now.
Southerners (from the forgotten bit of the south - the bit that isn't London and the counties around it) might think the other way - they've seen the high levels of investment pumped into areas of the North (including through using the public sector as a job creation scheme) and notice that the same has not occured there, despite the loss of their formerly key industries.
They've also seen the masses of transport spending going into certain northern projects while their own line was put out of use for 3 months because it fell into the sea, with no plan for a replacement to stop it ever happening again.
Southerners (from the forgotten bit of the south - the bit that isn't London and the counties around it) might think the other way - they've seen the high levels of investment pumped into areas of the North (including through using the public sector as a job creation scheme) and notice that the same has not occured there, despite the loss of their formerly key industries.
They've also seen the masses of transport spending going into certain northern projects while their own line was put out of use for 3 months because it fell into the sea, with no plan for a replacement to stop it ever happening again.
Indeed the loss of many of the Naval yards in the Portsmouth area resulted in a great deal of unemployment and hardship in Southern Hampshire. The houses there had always been very expensive and average wages quite low. It certainly was not the pampered south.
I don't know what to think about this. I've spent my entire life in the manufacturing supply chain, and my own business is still 100% dependent on it. Virtually all my customers will be steel users, and particularly ERW and SHS tube. I also worked for steel stockholders for 6 years after I left school. I do actually remember the days when some prestigious manufacturers still demanded British steel, though the BSC was an utter nightmare to deal with. Not only sky high prices but terrible service.
This was mid 70s to early 80s, a time when governments bailing out uneconomic industry had become unsustainable. I wrung my hands at the decline in manufacturing, and still do, but you can only "mothball" assets for so long. I would actually have some sympathy with McDonnell over this if I didn't a) think he'd make a total cods of it and b) mistrust him so much. It's true that if we let everything go, then there is nothing left when demand picks up. If that is likely in the foreseeable future. About 8 years ago, engineering was struggling with incredible price rises, and shortages of steel. China was hoovering up everything in sight. Now it's sharply in reverse.
The country does not have a pool of cash to throw at it (and pah to EU subsidy rules - nobody else takes any notice. How many times has Alitalia been bailed out "one last time" by the Italians?), but then the cost of benefits and coping with the unemployment that will follow doesn't come for free, either in monetary or social measure.
A general policy of stopping uneconomic companies from folding is absolutely the road to disaster. Whether a case can be made for this particular one remains to be seen. Not that the Tories will be remotely interested, of course.
The Government not wanting to do anything for the North East is not surprising to those of us here. We already know we are not worthy in their eyes...
Had it been down south it would have been pumped with cash long before now.
But hey, at least the unemployment numbers are going to go up here, I'm sure that will please them. It gives them more justification for their ideological welfare policies.
That is what I think too. Even more reason as if I needed anyway for not voting Tory
Sadly Stockton South voted for the Tory at last election
Why sadly? I know you think they're all superhuman but what do you think a labour MP could have done then?
Listened to a woman choking back the tears on 5-live this afternoon, both her and her husband work there.
Sod the lot in Calais and those invading Europe, we should concentrate on these people.
Well as the same plant closed in 2009 under a Labour Government probably not a lot.
The only real option to keep it open would be for the Government to subsidise every ton produced which I am fairly sure would be against EU Law.
Yep, sadly it's the price of globalisation competing with countries who knock out the same(but inferior) product for far less due to labour costs.
Unions are of no use in a private sector industry in a global economy.
It's not just down to the world steel prices falling, the cost of production is also prohibitive. Why should the cost of Energy to the plant be double that of, say, Germany. The Goverment should see steel production as a strategic asset to the nation and step in accordingly. That part of the country will be devastated by this loss.
It's not just down to the world steel prices falling, the cost of production is also prohibitive. Why should the cost of Energy to the plant be double that of, say, Germany. The Goverment should see steel production as a strategic asset to the nation and step in accordingly. That part of the country will be devastated by this loss.
Agreed, makes me wonder what will happen if the banks need bailing out again
If you think the government should help save the plant and you also favour staying in the EU you are frankly being a disingenuous hypocrite!
Very true.
The EU are responsible for the high energy prices that make sectors like this uncompetitive in a world market - they then ban subsidising uncompetitive companies like this and are also responsible for Trade rules that allow dumping by China.
Anyone who complains that this company is shutting down whilst at the same time supporting EU membership needs their head examining.
Bit disconcerting we're one of the very few european countries that have grown more low skill jobs than anything else. I thought it was a depressing 21st century global problem, perhaps not.
The Government not wanting to do anything for the North East is not surprising to those of us here. We already know we are not worthy in their eyes... Had it been down south it would have been pumped with cash long before now.
But hey, at least the unemployment numbers are going to go up here, I'm sure that will please them. It gives them more justification for their ideological welfare policies.
Absolutely. We even got a Minister for Portsmouth down here when the ship building in the dockyard got closed down. Even though for a working class city our economic numbers weren't too bad even after those job losses. But Portsmouth South was one of the crucial GE 2015 seats Tories wanted to win as its not been Tory since they lost it at 1997 GE.
The red Tories should have nationalised this plant in 2010. They were quick enough to nationalise RBS. And unlike a bank a steel plant is a national asset. As for what the real Tories are doing now, well there doing nothing really. They should just have broken EU rules. There is no way this would happen in Germany or France.
The red Tories should have nationalised this plant in 2010. They were quick enough to nationalise RBS. And unlike a bank a steel plant is a national asset. As for what the real Tories are doing now, well there doing nothing really. They should just have broken EU rules. There is no way this would happen in Germany or France.
In what way is a loss making steelworks a greater national asset than a bank? There is no worldwide shortage of steel. And how on earth would nationalising it return it to profitability?
The red Tories should have nationalised this plant in 2010. They were quick enough to nationalise RBS. And unlike a bank a steel plant is a national asset. As for what the real Tories are doing now, well there doing nothing really. They should just have broken EU rules. There is no way this would happen in Germany or France.
You clearly have no idea about national assets, regardless of how we view banks they are important to the fabric and future of every nation in the world, steel plants are ten a penny. Tell me what is the point of subsidising a plant to make steel when it will still be produced elsewhere at half the price.
Industries go to the wall all the time, mass car production, the coal industries are gone because importing was more cost effective, there is no point producing at cost to the state a product no one wants to purchase.
when people in an area constantly vote for the same party over decades, don't be too surprised when said party doesn't invest in jobs in that area (why bother, when folks are daft enough to keep voting for us, eh).
although it's disheartening to see these jobs being lost, you are correct. this is the downside of globalisation - competition. we may beat the chinese on quality, but we can't compete on price.
Comments
My memory of the 70s and 80s in terms of forced redundancies was that there were some very good offers made in terms of payments, both immediate and long term. I doubt the redundancies today will pay out anything like the level that was given then. Yes whole communities lost the main employer but people have to move for employment all the time. A community has no intrinsic right to exist.
Southerners (from the forgotten bit of the south - the bit that isn't London and the counties around it) might think the other way - they've seen the high levels of investment pumped into areas of the North (including through using the public sector as a job creation scheme) and notice that the same has not occured there, despite the loss of their formerly key industries.
They've also seen the masses of transport spending going into certain northern projects while their own line was put out of use for 3 months because it fell into the sea, with no plan for a replacement to stop it ever happening again.
Indeed the loss of many of the Naval yards in the Portsmouth area resulted in a great deal of unemployment and hardship in Southern Hampshire. The houses there had always been very expensive and average wages quite low. It certainly was not the pampered south.
This was mid 70s to early 80s, a time when governments bailing out uneconomic industry had become unsustainable. I wrung my hands at the decline in manufacturing, and still do, but you can only "mothball" assets for so long. I would actually have some sympathy with McDonnell over this if I didn't a) think he'd make a total cods of it and b) mistrust him so much. It's true that if we let everything go, then there is nothing left when demand picks up. If that is likely in the foreseeable future. About 8 years ago, engineering was struggling with incredible price rises, and shortages of steel. China was hoovering up everything in sight. Now it's sharply in reverse.
The country does not have a pool of cash to throw at it (and pah to EU subsidy rules - nobody else takes any notice. How many times has Alitalia been bailed out "one last time" by the Italians?), but then the cost of benefits and coping with the unemployment that will follow doesn't come for free, either in monetary or social measure.
A general policy of stopping uneconomic companies from folding is absolutely the road to disaster. Whether a case can be made for this particular one remains to be seen. Not that the Tories will be remotely interested, of course.
Of course - although some might want to ask the Honourable Member for Doncaster North whether he still supports high energy prices...
That is what I think too. Even more reason as if I needed anyway for not voting Tory
Sadly Stockton South voted for the Tory at last election
He said there was a "perfect storm" across worldwide markets which were either down or slowing.
Why sadly? I know you think they're all superhuman but what do you think a labour MP could have done then?
Listened to a woman choking back the tears on 5-live this afternoon, both her and her husband work there.
Sod the lot in Calais and those invading Europe, we should concentrate on these people.
Well as the same plant closed in 2009 under a Labour Government probably not a lot.
The only real option to keep it open would be for the Government to subsidise every ton produced which I am fairly sure would be against EU Law.
Yep, sadly it's the price of globalisation competing with countries who knock out the same(but inferior) product for far less due to labour costs.
Unions are of no use in a private sector industry in a global economy.
Agreed, makes me wonder what will happen if the banks need bailing out again
it's GLOBALISATION folks
can't live with it
DON'T LIVE WITH IT THEN!
Spot on - the government simply isn't allowed to subsidise the plant as that is not allowed under EU state aid rules.
If you think the government should help save the plant and you also favour staying in the EU you are frankly being a disingenuous hypocrite!
Very true.
The EU are responsible for the high energy prices that make sectors like this uncompetitive in a world market - they then ban subsidising uncompetitive companies like this and are also responsible for Trade rules that allow dumping by China.
Anyone who complains that this company is shutting down whilst at the same time supporting EU membership needs their head examining.
Bit disconcerting we're one of the very few european countries that have grown more low skill jobs than anything else. I thought it was a depressing 21st century global problem, perhaps not.
Absolutely. We even got a Minister for Portsmouth down here when the ship building in the dockyard got closed down. Even though for a working class city our economic numbers weren't too bad even after those job losses. But Portsmouth South was one of the crucial GE 2015 seats Tories wanted to win as its not been Tory since they lost it at 1997 GE.
Actually Stockton on Teesside, where a fair few of those effected may live, regularly returns a Tory MP. See ex-PM Harold McMillan, Lord Stockton.
Current MP for Stockton South, James Wharton, Conservative.
Much of steel work involves hitting hot metal with hammers, and the pay scale is between £16k and £29k per year (if you work hours of overtime
http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Sheet_Metal_Worker/Hourly_Rate
Is that your definition of highly skilled highly paid work?
In what way is a loss making steelworks a greater national asset than a bank? There is no worldwide shortage of steel. And how on earth would nationalising it return it to profitability?
You clearly have no idea about national assets, regardless of how we view banks they are important to the fabric and future of every nation in the world, steel plants are ten a penny. Tell me what is the point of subsidising a plant to make steel when it will still be produced elsewhere at half the price.
Industries go to the wall all the time, mass car production, the coal industries are gone because importing was more cost effective, there is no point producing at cost to the state a product no one wants to purchase.
when people in an area constantly vote for the same party over decades, don't be too surprised when said party doesn't invest in jobs in that area (why bother, when folks are daft enough to keep voting for us, eh).
no. it's being mothballed, due to difficult trading conditions.
although it's disheartening to see these jobs being lost, you are correct. this is the downside of globalisation - competition. we may beat the chinese on quality, but we can't compete on price.