Northern England is an integral part of England. People are deluded if they get the insane notion of Northern English independence or union with Scotland. It's not going to happen, nor should it.
It might one day. Im from the north and think we deserve devolution like the Scots have got. If Scotland did break away, then it would possibly split England at some point as the north would need some home rule to compensate for the London bias.
I don't know about WhiteFang's opinion but to put it simply. Each of the regions would have it's own parliament/assembly which would take control of all local affairs with most powers being devolved from Westminster.
Much the same as happens with Scotland but with a general movement to Devo Max for all the regions of England as well as Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland.
Westminster would keep absolute control of Defence , Foreign Policy & Economic Policy.
Some other things such as transport would be shared with local transport run by the regions but with interregional transport being run in conjunction with the DFT, the Highways Agency and Network Rail.
This modal for transport could be adapted for other departments such as health and Education. Although in those area's the regions could have more control.
As for policing there would have to be an expansion of the National Crime Agency to become more like the FBI. Although MI5 will still carry out the counterintelligence, counter-terrorism work that it currently does.
Most local policing will be carried out regionally.
Brilliant. You sir (going by your name - apologies if not) are A reader! As for intelligence - the fact that we are land locked would entail that al info would be shared other wise you are leaving a huge hole. Christ. look at the illegitimate baccy and booze that gets through Ireland. I think for economic and political reasons there would be an overarching agency that is focussed on National Security like the US CIA - not approving of that just saying - in COUNTER FACTUAL - i will keep putting that out there - would happen.
Again I thank you, what if (and that is what this thread is about) other areas see the economic and political benefits and in their own (non-nationalistic terms) want to move to an economic and political equilibrium (over say the next 5-10 years) refocusing the economic model in the areas they are in and re appropriating the social unity that they are comfortable with but without giving up (immediately) nationality?
Only because I know the Borderlands thing is actually happening NOW. And the NE are pushing for it. To readjust as I paraphrase Vince Cable "that black hole, sucking the economy to London". If...in 10 years or so? Where and what will we look like - that (as you got) was the DISCUSSION of the thread. Not a definitive answer.
Cheers
TY that was why I started this thread. Not reality, just banter and thoughts.
I agree. The north east was offered a silly talking shop type of not even devolution by the Labour Party. It was an insult really to the region and so it was voted down. Power goes with economics and so the economics will go where the power is. If Scotland gets independence it will do well as this will happen and people in the north of England will see this.....and maybe the spell of London power over them will be broken.
I don't think that it is right that the rarely acknowledged neo-con strand of SNP would expand into the North East region of England. Rather it would go to where Scotland has some genuine if older than the ark historical claims, ie Berwick and Carlisle, so effectively it would be seeking to extend its mighty self south across all of the border.
.
"Historical claims". I would be interested to know what the residents of Carlisle and Berwick think.
I visited Carlisle a few years back and was struck by how very English it was compared with some other English cities, and how few Scots (apparently) lived and worked there considering how close to the border it is. I could see little trace of any Scottish influence.
Northern England is an integral part of England. People are deluded if they get the insane notion of Northern English independence or union with Scotland. It's not going to happen, nor should it.
You clearly don't know your history if you think the far North of England is 'integral' to the rest of England.
This part of the world has had a fractious relationship with England for many centuries -- eventually falling into line because we had little other choice.
I'm not talking about the 'north midlands' of Leeds and Manchester here either. The lands around the border have a distinct identity of their own. Eventually these parts will be wanting some form of home rule -- it's only the counterbalance of Scotland that's keeping it all in check.
"Historical claims". I would be interested to know what the residents of Carlisle and Berwick think.
I visited Carlisle a few years back and was struck by how very English it was compared with some other English cities, and how few Scots (apparently) lived and worked there considering how close to the border it is. I could see little trace of any Scottish influence.
I agree - but apparently a third of them want Scottish healthcare.
I don't think that it is right that the rarely acknowledged neo-con strand of SNP would expand into the North East region of England. Rather it would go to where Scotland has some genuine if older than the ark historical claims, ie Berwick and Carlisle, so effectively it would be seeking to extend its mighty self south across all of the border.
Northumbria itself has historical claims on Edinburgh and much of the Scottish borders, so I'd like to see them try.
Northumbria itself has historical claims on Edinburgh and much of the Scottish borders, so I'd like to see them try.
Yes, quite, but everything is lawyers now isn't it. 60% of the people in Berwick want to leave England. You can see an employment belt of legal firms appearing across the entire region. They will have a field day. I am happy enough to give them greater devolution - the Scottish are fine by me - but I reckon independence would be a nightmare.
Yes, quite, but everything is lawyers now isn't it. 60% of the people in Berwick want to leave England. You can see an employment belt of legal firms appearing across the entire region. They will have a field day. I am happy enough to give them greater devolution - the Scottish are fine by me - but I reckon independence would be a nightmare.
I can't think of many modern countries for whom gaining independence has been a "nightmare".
Surely the current problems result not from the country's independence, but threats to its independence? One thing in Scotland we can be grateful for is that we're pursuing independence peacefully and with the acceptance (if not happiness) of the UK government.
I agree. The north east was offered a silly talking shop type of not even devolution by the Labour Party. It was an insult really to the region and so it was voted down. Power goes with economics and so the economics will go where the power is. If Scotland gets independence it will do well as this will happen and people in the north of England will see this.....and maybe the spell of London power over them will be broken.
And bingo in the factuals. I think it will remain the same, so the NE will have to plough through. If they are (which is not a big if) gone with a focus that is no where near them, is it that unlikely that in a few year there will be a change in mind set - certainly economics and base politics say there is already a coherence - think that may come quicker than people realise...
Northern England is an integral part of England. People are deluded if they get the insane notion of Northern English independence or union with Scotland. It's not going to happen, nor should it.
Hey BBB with you on the BGT threads , so..this is a fractual - what if - no need for facts or stats, just how you (as weird as you like) plays out. No need to justify anything. Unless you then want to...
I don't think that it is right that the rarely acknowledged neo-con strand of SNP would expand into the North East region of England. Rather it would go to where Scotland has some genuine if older than the ark historical claims, ie Berwick and Carlisle, so effectively it would be seeking to extend its mighty self south across all of the border.
Passport controls on the major roads are probably a minor problem. Some sort of Checkpoint Charlies will be needed from 2015 when Scotland gets independence and it leaves Britain/EU and they will be needed again from 2017 when England leaves the EU. But there is a point in 2016 when Scotland will have rejoined EU and England will still be in EU and there won't be need for barriers because they will both be in EU at least for a few months.
That, I think, is the time for a major offensive with land grab. They can push it as far south as it can go with the full support of the Germans, the Lithuania's and the Dutch. Only time will tell how far to Luton Salmond can leap.
So the Unions fine but a couple of years before that (when both were ACTUALLY Scottish controlled - yeah that's bad!). Ha,ha don't take it in a bad way as like a couple of others you got what I was saying originally. I think give it 10 years (after a Yes and remember not a prediction but just a basis)_ or so bit of a difference but that is the whole point of speculation, like you - and that's why I am not arguing - debating, but..:D
At the present time it would be very difficult because everything until recent devolution to the Celtic nations has been channelled in to especially the English population thinking only to London Westminster and nothing else could work. Scotland has had its own legal system and independence until a few hundred yrs ago, so its retained its identity as a nation. For England, the people in the far regions like the north were crushed much earlier and thinking aloud. London gets an assembly before any of the northern regions who need and deserve some devolution.
Now that makes me think the powers that be dont want the northern English regions to have any even small amounts of devolution as it could down the line eventually lead to the break up of England. So theres no way they will let the north east join an independent Scotland
how disenfranchised does the North need to feel (i know the North isn't a mass) but for argument,,It only took Scotland less than a couple of decades?
So the Unions fine but a couple of years before that (when both were ACTUALLY Scottish controlled - yeah that's bad!). Ha,ha don't take it in a bad way as like a couple of others you got what I was saying originally. I think give it 10 years (after a Yes and remember not a prediction but just a basis)_ or so bit of a difference but that is the whole point of speculation, like you - and that's why I am not arguing - debating, but..:D
Well, it is a good thread but I am worried about North Shields.
Surely the current problems result not from the country's independence, but threats to its independence? One thing in Scotland we can be grateful for is that we're pursuing independence peacefully and with the acceptance (if not happiness) of the UK government.
That is a very fair point but we don't know, do we, how a newly independent anywhere will behave whereas we do have experience of the current arrangements. What we also know is that Scotland would be EU and the EU has never shown the slightest inclination to keep to its borders.
Lateralthinking - cannot disagree with you more. But I am glad to get a bit heat up and disagree. Means you are actually answering a point! Bugger, you Reader you:D
It might one day. Im from the north and think we deserve devolution like the Scots have got. If Scotland did break away, then it would possibly split England at some point as the north would need some home rule to compensate for the London bias.
Right, and where does that end? When does north-north England seperate due to some other bias towards a big city?
You clearly don't know your history if you think the far North of England is 'integral' to the rest of England.
This part of the world has had a fractious relationship with England for many centuries -- eventually falling into line because we had little other choice.
I'm not talking about the 'north midlands' of Leeds and Manchester here either. The lands around the border have a distinct identity of their own. Eventually these parts will be wanting some form of home rule -- it's only the counterbalance of Scotland that's keeping it all in check.
It's nonsensical. These independence delusions are absurd
I'm sorry, but the Tinpot Border Republic is never going to happen
Ah want a suburban home.. Suburban home...Suburban home.. (The Descendants)
You want whale sperm with that? NO!
Very much off of OP
That pub behind the reconstructed fort in South Shields... I was 18 - you can fill in the blanks.
Though strangely unless in Blackpool; Geordie not as much fans of the Scots - why in Blackpool (long memory) oh well!
Have just worked out the connection.
It is "Milo in the River with Flowers" from "I'm Not a Loser, Only Nicely Out of Tune". Part of my family spent the war just across from SS in Tynemouth. The constant booming was enough to pave the way for my father never again to set foot north of Watford. Later I over compensated on his behalf, taking in Newcastle Brown Ale and everything on Kitchenware. I'd feel a moral obligation to leave my country and fight with Toon forces if push came to shove.
Comments
It might one day. Im from the north and think we deserve devolution like the Scots have got. If Scotland did break away, then it would possibly split England at some point as the north would need some home rule to compensate for the London bias.
Excellent news.
Cameron - or Miliband - can appoint that nice HRH Prince Imran from Malaysia to secure the Trent. Nothing possibly can go wrong.
Brilliant. You sir (going by your name - apologies if not) are A reader! As for intelligence - the fact that we are land locked would entail that al info would be shared other wise you are leaving a huge hole. Christ. look at the illegitimate baccy and booze that gets through Ireland. I think for economic and political reasons there would be an overarching agency that is focussed on National Security like the US CIA - not approving of that just saying - in COUNTER FACTUAL - i will keep putting that out there - would happen.
I agree. The north east was offered a silly talking shop type of not even devolution by the Labour Party. It was an insult really to the region and so it was voted down. Power goes with economics and so the economics will go where the power is. If Scotland gets independence it will do well as this will happen and people in the north of England will see this.....and maybe the spell of London power over them will be broken.
"Historical claims". I would be interested to know what the residents of Carlisle and Berwick think.
I visited Carlisle a few years back and was struck by how very English it was compared with some other English cities, and how few Scots (apparently) lived and worked there considering how close to the border it is. I could see little trace of any Scottish influence.
You clearly don't know your history if you think the far North of England is 'integral' to the rest of England.
This part of the world has had a fractious relationship with England for many centuries -- eventually falling into line because we had little other choice.
I'm not talking about the 'north midlands' of Leeds and Manchester here either. The lands around the border have a distinct identity of their own. Eventually these parts will be wanting some form of home rule -- it's only the counterbalance of Scotland that's keeping it all in check.
I agree - but apparently a third of them want Scottish healthcare.
http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/opinion/agenda/should-carlisle-return-to-scottish-rule-1.41468#
(They also have "fond" memories of Border TV - not!)
Northumbria itself has historical claims on Edinburgh and much of the Scottish borders, so I'd like to see them try.
Yes, quite, but everything is lawyers now isn't it. 60% of the people in Berwick want to leave England. You can see an employment belt of legal firms appearing across the entire region. They will have a field day. I am happy enough to give them greater devolution - the Scottish are fine by me - but I reckon independence would be a nightmare.
I can't think of many modern countries for whom gaining independence has been a "nightmare".
Ukraine?
Surely the current problems result not from the country's independence, but threats to its independence? One thing in Scotland we can be grateful for is that we're pursuing independence peacefully and with the acceptance (if not happiness) of the UK government.
And bingo in the factuals. I think it will remain the same, so the NE will have to plough through. If they are (which is not a big if) gone with a focus that is no where near them, is it that unlikely that in a few year there will be a change in mind set - certainly economics and base politics say there is already a coherence - think that may come quicker than people realise...
Hey BBB with you on the BGT threads , so..this is a fractual - what if - no need for facts or stats, just how you (as weird as you like) plays out. No need to justify anything. Unless you then want to...
Seriously. That is is it:)
As an active Spurs fan (Bronze) - trust me I have paid oodels to see junk>:(
So the Unions fine but a couple of years before that (when both were ACTUALLY Scottish controlled - yeah that's bad!). Ha,ha don't take it in a bad way as like a couple of others you got what I was saying originally. I think give it 10 years (after a Yes and remember not a prediction but just a basis)_ or so bit of a difference but that is the whole point of speculation, like you - and that's why I am not arguing - debating, but..:D
how disenfranchised does the North need to feel (i know the North isn't a mass) but for argument,,It only took Scotland less than a couple of decades?
Well, it is a good thread but I am worried about North Shields.
The Fog on the Tyne was all mine etc.
That is a very fair point but we don't know, do we, how a newly independent anywhere will behave whereas we do have experience of the current arrangements. What we also know is that Scotland would be EU and the EU has never shown the slightest inclination to keep to its borders.
Ah want a suburban home.. Suburban home...Suburban home.. (The Descendants)
You want whale sperm with that? NO!
Very much off of OP
That pub behind the reconstructed fort in South Shields... I was 18 - you can fill in the blanks.
Though strangely unless in Blackpool; Geordie not as much fans of the Scots - why in Blackpool (long memory) oh well!
I don't think that it is right that the rarely acknowledged neo-con strand of SNP would expand into the North East region of England
I wont say too much apart from ..what you say in jest...But remember we are talking well future..
Right, and where does that end? When does north-north England seperate due to some other bias towards a big city?
It's nonsensical. These independence delusions are absurd
I'm sorry, but the Tinpot Border Republic is never going to happen
Those who think it will need to find hobbies
Have just worked out the connection.
It is "Milo in the River with Flowers" from "I'm Not a Loser, Only Nicely Out of Tune". Part of my family spent the war just across from SS in Tynemouth. The constant booming was enough to pave the way for my father never again to set foot north of Watford. Later I over compensated on his behalf, taking in Newcastle Brown Ale and everything on Kitchenware. I'd feel a moral obligation to leave my country and fight with Toon forces if push came to shove.
HS2 was/is a prime example as these figures showed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24589652
Almost as concerning is the disdain and apathy that the powers that be treat these findings.
If we are talking a post yes vote scenario why should a party from a foreign country be allowed to stand in English elections ?