Phone line dead
Happy_Chappy
Posts: 1,719 Forum Member
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We have a cordless phone and BT phone line that today has stopped working (no internet either). The phone randomly rung this afternoon, only about 2 rings (displaying "external" instead of a number on the caller ID, which it has never done before) and then cut off. Since then (not sure if it was instant, but certainly when I tried to use the internet within half an hour of the call) there's been no dial tone and incoming calls give the caller an engaged tone and/or display a "user busy" message.
I've used the BT fault checker and it says fault is with our equipment, not the line. I've tried the phone with a different filter and no filter, but it makes no difference. I've tried borrowing a friend's handset, but that made no difference either (as expected really, since internet doesn't work, I assume it can't just be the handset).
What else can I do? We don't have a master socket, so can't do those tests to help isolate fault further. I don't really want to call out a BT engineer as I fear they will charge us £129.99 regardless of fault.
Any help greatly appreciated, thanks.
I've used the BT fault checker and it says fault is with our equipment, not the line. I've tried the phone with a different filter and no filter, but it makes no difference. I've tried borrowing a friend's handset, but that made no difference either (as expected really, since internet doesn't work, I assume it can't just be the handset).
What else can I do? We don't have a master socket, so can't do those tests to help isolate fault further. I don't really want to call out a BT engineer as I fear they will charge us £129.99 regardless of fault.
Any help greatly appreciated, thanks.
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Comments
Do you really mean that you don't have a linebox, i.e. the version with a horizontal line across the front?
Whatever installation you have, follow the line where it enters the property and identify the socket to which it connects. Unplug all equipment and all extension wiring. If a known good phone doesn't work, and if the line returns busy tone when called, then it's BT's problem. The Network Termination Point is the master socket; everything upstream of that is BT's problem, but downstream it's your problem.
It sounds like something is looping the line, typically an off-hook extension, faulty equipment or an internal wiring fault. It's possible that an intermittent short or open circuit has simulated ringing current, and the lack of Calling Line Identification caused your phone to display a default setting. Is there a dropwire chafing against something in the wind, or has the external wiring become damaged? This might well explain the symptoms.
Providing you've unplugged absolutely everything, you don't have to worry.
If you do have only the one socket and no extensions then you almost certainly have a line fault.
If you do have extensions then you need to identify which is the one connected to the line. As said above unplug everything and use a simple known working corded phone (don't use a cordless phone as that is one more point of failure) in the master socket. If that doesn't work the fault is either the line or your extension wiring.
So next task is to trace the wiring from master to extensions and carefully check for any damage. If you feel a bit naughty you could take the master apart and remove the extension wires leaving just the line pair attached. If the line still doesn't work then it's a fair bet it's the BT line.
But ultimately only BT can fix the line unless there is clear evidence it is your internal wiring causing the fault. So barring that you are going to have to call BT at some point if you want your phone and broadband back.
Sorry some of the terminology is lost on me, so I don't quite follow everything you've both said. By "master socket" I meant one of those type of sockets that has a test line/socket in it (sorry I know that's not very clear or the correct name). Maybe if I explain my set up as best as I can....
All wiring outside must be completely underground as there are no visible wires anywhere on our property or telephone poles in our street. Just inside the front door, in the hallway, is a blank faceplate with "GPO" on it (yes, it's that old! At least 30 years old, could be original to the house, which would be 40 years). The faceplate can be removed as nothing is attached to it - there is just a hole in the wall behind it, that gives access to a mix of wires loose behind. With the faceplate on the wall, a wire comes out from the bottom (not actually out the front of the faceplate, but out a small gap between the faceplate and the wall) goes about 2 metres along the skirting board and into the bottom of a "normal" phone socket (again through a small gap between the faceplate and the wall). This "normal" socket is then where we plug the phone/internet/filter into. Hope that makes sense!
I'm not really sure if that makes the blank faceplate the master socket (albeit without an actual socket!) and the "normal" socket an extension? Or do I have a different set up? Other than testing equipment in the only socket, I'm not quite sure what I can do. I've checked our handset at a friend's (worked fine) and used theirs at ours (didn't work), but unfortunately don't know anyone with a corded phone, so will have to see if I can get one to try.
When you say "only socket" do you mean literally that, ie no other phone sockets anywhere in the house or the only socket accessible on that particular phone point?
If you do mean that there is no other socket anywhere in the house then there can be no wiring that is your responsibility affecting the line. Unless that is BT judge that the junction box is the termination point of their line and that anything after that is yours.
What type of terminals are inside the junction box? Really old ones used screw terminals and I have seen ones where the solid core wire they use for phone wiring breaks at the terminal. And screws can work loose. So worth giving the junction box a good looking at to make sure everything is OK.
The more modern types use Insulation Displacement Connection terminals. This is a plastic block with slots in and the wires are pushed down into the slots to make contact with the terminals. These can be deceptive. I have known (and made
By the way if the junction box does use IDC terminals don't be tempted to push the wires down into the slot with a screwdriver. That will damage the terminal. You need a special tool to do the job properly.
Note that use of an old master socket (without an internal choke on line 3, the bellwire) can slow down your broadband speeds. The latest version of the linebox has the choke, or you can often get away with leaving the bellwire disconnected. Just use 17070 to make sure all the phones ring !
The OP appears to have a master socket rather than a linebox with an internal test socket under the faceplate, so presumably his extension wiring and router is connected via a plug-in kit.
Whatever he has, everything needs to be unplugged before connecting a test telephone !
Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, just the one socket in the house. Junction box has screw terminals, not plastic slots, so would it be safe to try tightening them? I'm wary of doing any damage.
Is it possible these would work loose over time? Or is it just that it's possible, being a 40 year old set up, it has just given up through wear and tear? I'm curious as to why it could just randomly stop working after years of all working fine (exactly same phone/router - no problems with the phone or internet connection, we get decent speed and connection drops are very rare).
Have tried a corded phone, no dial tone, so looks like definitely the wiring and hopefully BT's responsibility. I guess it's just going to depend on whether BT think their responsibility ends at the junction box or the socket.
We just have the one socket, no plug in kit or extension wiring I don't think. We plug a filter into the one socket, with the telephone and router plugged directly into the filter. Everything we use is via wifi, so the router just sits in the hallway by the phone.
It may well be worth checking the state of the junction box to make sure all the wiring is intact and there is nothing like a strand of wire shorting across the line pair. Or one of the wires hasn't broken. If the screws have been done up by a tame gorilla
If you have a multimeter set it to DC and measure across the pair. If the line is OK there should be close to 50V between the two wires of the pair. If there is no voltage then that could well be the cause of the problem.
One other test would be to disconnect the cable to the phone socket and measure again to see if the voltage returns. If it does that indicates the cable to the socket is faulty or it could even be the socket.
Just be careful though.If there is a working line and someone rings it the ringing voltage will give you a nasty tickle if you happen to be touching the wire or any of the terminal metalwork. But as long as you are careful you should be OK.
Contact your telephone supplier.
contact your supplier before playing with the gpo box. if you do something wrong your supplier will charge you.
any wiring before the socket is their problem and should be fixed free of charge
Stolen pairs would explain my disconnection recently, though the official reason was the line was down!
Are Kelly a nationwide outfit?
Neighbours unaffected (in immediate vicinity, as far as I know).
Not seen any communications vans of any type, but we are down a quiet cul-de-sac and the exchange is 2 streets away and no vans visiting it would come past our way to reach it. There was a man in an unmarked van that day (the Wednesday), that parked in our close to stop and do some paperwork it looked like (our neighbour mentioned it when we told them we had no phone/internet since it's a very quite close and everyone knows everyone's cars and usual visitors), but no-one would have seen if he went anywhere near the exchange on the other street, so probably unrelated.
Anyway.......
So I finally have time to sort this today, but looks like I won't have too (fingers crossed I'm not jinxing it writing this post). I had booked BT for tomorrow anyway, it was more just wishful thinking I could fix it and cancel them.
Been leaving just the phone plugged in and checking it once a day to see if the line is still dead. At about 8:20am this morning the phone started ringing a few short bursts at a time, once again (as it did briefly before it died on Wednesday) the caller ID displayed "external" and the calls didn't register as missed calls on the handset. After a few unanswered calls our answerphone cuts in after one ring, so we've actually got an answerphone message of a dial tone mixed with lots of intermittent static and then the "please hang up and try again" woman repeated saying her immortal line over and over on the crackly line. Left it for a bit, but have now had a normal phone call (cold caller!), so plugged everything in and it's all working! Yay!
So was all that kerfuffle this morning someone fixing the connection at the exchange? They randomly noticed a problem while they were doing something else or done purposely, looking into our problem, since the engineer was due tomorrow? (Although they did keep insisting the fault was with our internal wiring, as they couldn't find a fault)
This is normal sometimes when an engineer actually gets the request to look at a specific problem they see it straight away and fix it. Thing is until a request is generated and you have accepted the possible charges, nothing will happen. I have this all the time with faults that show up as customer faults when in reality it is a BT fault. The automated fault finder will not always find these types of faults. So require some physical investiagtions.
I would have said that if you had a normal BT NT5 you would have found that there was no dial tone in the test socket. I have had that many times when I have tested the line in the test socket and BT still tell me it's a customers equipment fault.
That's good to know, thanks
Regardless, really happy it's fixed!