Why are so many Irish people trying to tell us what is best for OUR country?
If that's directed at me I'm not doing that at all. There are pros and cons on both sides and the Scottish people will make the decision that's right for them. I just think all this scaremongering (coming from a self serving Tory govt which is not representative of Scotland) is nonsense. They're basically telling the Scottish people that they're not capable of running a country for themselves, and if they're stupid enough to try they'll sink. That's really insulting IMO.
Why are so many Irish people trying to tell us what is best for OUR country?
Its none of your business really. Didn't the UK bail you out a few years ago?
Can you not have a discussion on independence issues with anyone? Any Irish I have came across in this never told any Scottish voter what to do including myself.
If someone challenges you on things why not debate the issue and not say something so stupid like "didn't the UK bail out Ireland" ... You don't help your argument, you just look stupid and I'm sure your not.
I do not believe that Salmond and his campaign have actually made the case for independence, relying instead on scaremongering about an imagined dystopian UK future, without actually offering a credible coherent program of independence.
I started the campaign leaning strongly towards YES, but their campaign and the White Paper have been almost fact-free, speculation-heavy best case scenarios if everyone else agrees with it.
I felt we actually needed an independent currency with our own central bank to help fund the measures to mitigate the inevitable difficulties and build for future growth, but that's not on the cards.
Unfortunately, we instead have a mishmash of least offensive positions that don't quite work out and don't really offer independence. Relying on a foreign currency and central bank is just a different form or dependence that barely qualifies as less dependent.
So the YES campaign has persuaded me from a Yes to a No, due to the ill-considered, opportunistic, unworkable pick and mix on offer.
Sadly, many of my fellow Scots are falling for a combination of marketing and jingoism, responding to silly emotive points such as "Who say's we're too small and stupid to go it alone?" To answer that, the people involved may not say that, but they certainly demonstrate that as Salmond and his team focus on "making history" rather than actually improving the nation. We'd all love to eradicate poverty, but you can't do that by crippling and vandalising your economy, with an ill-considered compromise that offers no credible economic plan.
You don't buy a house without seeing it, or even a picture of it and not being told of the actual price.
Salmond's demeanour in the past two days has been odd. In a recent interview, there was the appearance of a rheumy tear in a suddenly much older face. Whether some looked at it and contemplated that he might bump himself off to gain sympathy and secure a yes vote is unknown. But the decades of divisive obsession may have been struggling inside him with the turn of events that could mean ultimate detachment. Arguably, it's always been mostly personal to him and leadership may be beyond him, that's if he doesn't fall on his sword "victoriously" first.
Well you see this place is massively weighted in the NO camp - it's nice to actually hear different opinions - I'm an outsider, I understand that and it has no affect on me getting up, going to work and paying tax.
Agreed. It's healthy to hear views from those 'outside', who's opinion isn't perhaps as blurred by direct involvement. The only posters I've read asking Irish posters to butt out are those in the No camp. Toys getting thrown out the pram because you're not giving a negative view of Independence - if you did, you'd be welcomed and quoted by the same posters.
Well you see this place is massively weighted in the NO camp - it's nice to actually hear different opinions - I'm an outsider, I understand that and it has no affect on me getting up, going to work and paying tax.
That's because some of the yes supporters on here are on holiday due to being unable to adhere to the forum rules
I do not believe that Salmond and his campaign have actually made the case for independence, relying instead on scaremongering about an imagined dystopian UK future, without actually offering a credible coherent program of independence.
I started the campaign leaning strongly towards YES, but their campaign and the White Paper have been almost fact-free, speculation-heavy best case scenarios if everyone else agrees with it.
I felt we actually needed an independent currency with our own central bank to help fund the measures to mitigate the inevitable difficulties and build for future growth, but that's not on the cards.
Unfortunately, we instead have a mishmash of least offensive positions that don't quite work out and don't really offer independence. Relying on a foreign currency and central bank is just a different form or dependence that barely qualifies as less dependent.
So the YES campaign has persuaded me from a Yes to a No, due to the ill-considered, opportunistic, unworkable pick and mix on offer.
Sadly, many of my fellow Scots are falling for a combination of marketing and jingoism, responding to silly emotive points such as "Who say's we're too small and stupid to go it alone?" To answer that, the people involved may not say that, but they certainly demonstrate that as Salmond and his team focus on "making history" rather than actually improving the nation. We'd all love to eradicate poverty, but you can't do that by crippling and vandalising your economy, with an ill-considered compromise that offers no credible economic plan.
You don't buy a house without seeing it, or even a picture of it and not being told of the actual price.[/QUOTE]
But that is exactly what the BT are doing. Except that they have three different estate agents all describing the house completely differently
It's quite clear that the markets don't like the idea so Scotish Independence. I would certainly be concerned about that if I were voting. I wonder if it will sway people.
It's quite clear that the markets don't like the idea so Scotish Independence. I would certainly be concerned about that if I were voting. I wonder if it will sway people.
It is quite clear that the markets do not like the blocking of a CU by westminster
It is quite clear that the markets do not like the blocking of a CU by westminster
Well the Pound didn't lose value when George Osborne ruled out the CU. They currency has however dropped a bit since opinion polls showing the likely-hood of Scotland leaving this past weekend.
Here's what the Currency Markets showed against the US Dollar.
February 12th - $1.67
February 13th (Day of George Osborne ruling out a CU) - $1.66
February 14th - $1.66
So it actually went up the following day. Here's the Pound against the US Dollar on Friday and today..
From my experience a lot of Yes supporters are on benefits and have never worked a day in their life. They also don't want to work yet they are blaming all their troubles on Westminster. We have free education here. Something that isn't on offer to England so if they really wanted to have made something of themselves they could have. They are just too lazy and seem to think independence will make them even richer despite the fact they still have no intention of ever finding a job.
But that is exactly what the BT are doing. Except that they have three different estate agents all describing the house completely differently
No. You can't really say that as you know the house, you've lived in it and you know the going prices.
What you don't know is whether or not you'll be offered more attractive terms and better facilities in the same house with largely the same price structure.
Salmond doesn't even have a house to sell. Rather he has some blueprints for different parts of a potential house, all from different architects, some of whom are unqualified, but none of whom have collaborated together to create a coherent vision of a house. The builders have only just been notified that there may be house of some indeterminate shape, form and size.
Well the Pound didn't lose much value when all 3 main parties ruled out the CU. They currency has however dropped a bit since opinion polls showing the likely-hood of Scotland leaving.
I feel you have responded satisfactorily in dismissing the previous post.
Only one person ever brought up the UN position. By the way, the power the UN is showing over Iraq and Russia now, you can take our position and pay the fees associated with it.
I'm fairly certain that was me a long time back. But your not knowing that kind of removes the inherent irony on someone with as recent a join date as yours alleging someone else is a re-incarnation of a previous poster whilst giving the distinct impression that that might be the case with them.
If everybody had simply kept their gobs shut the No vote would have gone through with a huge majority.
as it is, the ill-informed, ignorant and over-the-top statements from both Tory and Labour politicians gifted the swing to the SNP.
I think the internet has made the difference here, and social media. If it hadn't been for that, you would have a very one-sided view of what's going on...
Just been taking a look at the odds. For the 'yes' vote to be over 47% you can now get 5/6 (I actually think that's decent odds!). For a full-on 'yes' victory it's 2/1. 'No' is currently 1/3. It will be interesting to see the odds a few days before the actual vote.
And we mustn't forget that the SNP line is that they can ignore their commitments with no fear of penalty, and that is ridiculous.
I think you might find that it's a refusal to take on a commitment to pay for debt which Westminster incurred and insists as the continuing state will honour with an arrangement between Westminster and Holyrood to be worked out on what part of that Scotland will pay the rUK. The official Treasury statement from January 1014 is fairly clear on the issue, although presumptive as to the rUK being the only continuing state.
If the SNP do commit to paying an agreed proportion of the UK national debt then rest assured that it will not ignore that commitment. The argument is over whether the SNP, or rather Scotland, would make that commitment. The Currency Union issue is that Scotland and the rUK would both benefit from that at least in the initial period after independence. As such that would both make it easier for Scotland to pay of any of the UK's debt and for the rUK. If the rUK are hell bent on making independence as costly to Scotland as possible it's understandable that we should consider carefully not taking on any inherited debt. In fact even if the interest rate at which Scotland could borrow was higher it's more than probable that without paying towards Westminster's debt we'd still be far better of.
It's quite clear that the markets don't like the idea so Scotish Independence. I would certainly be concerned about that if I were voting. I wonder if it will sway people.
Comments
apologies , I misquoted
If that's directed at me I'm not doing that at all. There are pros and cons on both sides and the Scottish people will make the decision that's right for them. I just think all this scaremongering (coming from a self serving Tory govt which is not representative of Scotland) is nonsense. They're basically telling the Scottish people that they're not capable of running a country for themselves, and if they're stupid enough to try they'll sink. That's really insulting IMO.
It does seem that way, it's certainly not 50/50....
If someone challenges you on things why not debate the issue and not say something so stupid like "didn't the UK bail out Ireland" ... You don't help your argument, you just look stupid and I'm sure your not.
I started the campaign leaning strongly towards YES, but their campaign and the White Paper have been almost fact-free, speculation-heavy best case scenarios if everyone else agrees with it.
I felt we actually needed an independent currency with our own central bank to help fund the measures to mitigate the inevitable difficulties and build for future growth, but that's not on the cards.
Unfortunately, we instead have a mishmash of least offensive positions that don't quite work out and don't really offer independence. Relying on a foreign currency and central bank is just a different form or dependence that barely qualifies as less dependent.
So the YES campaign has persuaded me from a Yes to a No, due to the ill-considered, opportunistic, unworkable pick and mix on offer.
Sadly, many of my fellow Scots are falling for a combination of marketing and jingoism, responding to silly emotive points such as "Who say's we're too small and stupid to go it alone?" To answer that, the people involved may not say that, but they certainly demonstrate that as Salmond and his team focus on "making history" rather than actually improving the nation. We'd all love to eradicate poverty, but you can't do that by crippling and vandalising your economy, with an ill-considered compromise that offers no credible economic plan.
You don't buy a house without seeing it, or even a picture of it and not being told of the actual price.
Agreed. It's healthy to hear views from those 'outside', who's opinion isn't perhaps as blurred by direct involvement. The only posters I've read asking Irish posters to butt out are those in the No camp. Toys getting thrown out the pram because you're not giving a negative view of Independence - if you did, you'd be welcomed and quoted by the same posters.
That's because some of the yes supporters on here are on holiday due to being unable to adhere to the forum rules
It is quite clear that the markets do not like the blocking of a CU by westminster
Well the Pound didn't lose value when George Osborne ruled out the CU. They currency has however dropped a bit since opinion polls showing the likely-hood of Scotland leaving this past weekend.
Here's what the Currency Markets showed against the US Dollar.
February 12th - $1.67
February 13th (Day of George Osborne ruling out a CU) - $1.66
February 14th - $1.66
So it actually went up the following day. Here's the Pound against the US Dollar on Friday and today..
Friday Sep 5th - $1.63
Monday Sep 8th - $1.61
The thing is, a small fall in currency value is not all bad. It makes UK products abroad cheaper and helps exports.
The fall in share values however is always bad. I know which I would prefer. 😊
I wonder if sir would like a cup of tea?
It would help him swallow that foot a tad easier.
No. You can't really say that as you know the house, you've lived in it and you know the going prices.
What you don't know is whether or not you'll be offered more attractive terms and better facilities in the same house with largely the same price structure.
Salmond doesn't even have a house to sell. Rather he has some blueprints for different parts of a potential house, all from different architects, some of whom are unqualified, but none of whom have collaborated together to create a coherent vision of a house. The builders have only just been notified that there may be house of some indeterminate shape, form and size.
I feel you have responded satisfactorily in dismissing the previous post.
I'm fairly certain that was me a long time back. But your not knowing that kind of removes the inherent irony on someone with as recent a join date as yours alleging someone else is a re-incarnation of a previous poster whilst giving the distinct impression that that might be the case with them.
as it is, the ill-informed, ignorant and over-the-top statements from both Tory and Labour politicians gifted the swing to the SNP.
I think the internet has made the difference here, and social media. If it hadn't been for that, you would have a very one-sided view of what's going on...
I think you might find that it's a refusal to take on a commitment to pay for debt which Westminster incurred and insists as the continuing state will honour with an arrangement between Westminster and Holyrood to be worked out on what part of that Scotland will pay the rUK. The official Treasury statement from January 1014 is fairly clear on the issue, although presumptive as to the rUK being the only continuing state.
If the SNP do commit to paying an agreed proportion of the UK national debt then rest assured that it will not ignore that commitment. The argument is over whether the SNP, or rather Scotland, would make that commitment. The Currency Union issue is that Scotland and the rUK would both benefit from that at least in the initial period after independence. As such that would both make it easier for Scotland to pay of any of the UK's debt and for the rUK. If the rUK are hell bent on making independence as costly to Scotland as possible it's understandable that we should consider carefully not taking on any inherited debt. In fact even if the interest rate at which Scotland could borrow was higher it's more than probable that without paying towards Westminster's debt we'd still be far better of.
what the markets don't like is uncertainty.
They would be appalled by CU.
Is that why the French market is down today?