Serena Williams calls rape victim 'lucky'

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  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,195
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    Nemokins wrote: »
    I said *some* blame. I'm not blaming their actions on her but if she hadn't have been in the state she was then maybe this wouldn't have happened...ergo there will be 'some' blame.

    :confused: Huh? This may not be the best analogy but if someone was asleep, would you steal their wallet? The onus is all on the person who committed a crime.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 673
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    I wasn't going to comment but honestly .... a woman should be able to walk down a street stark naked and drink however much she wishes to, it isn't sensible, but it does not mean a man is allowed to rape her. Even the slightest justification is wrong.
    There is no blame attached to her. The culprits are well and truly the rapists.
    Yes by all means we must try to educate young girls to wise up and try to ensure they don't put themselves in situations where they can be harmed. But we must also not start apportioning blame to the woman who finds herself raped, what message is that sending out to young men? it's OK to rape someone if she's had a bit too much to drink because then you can just use the 'she was to blame' defence?

    I agree with a lot of your points here. I'm not justifying rape; its disgusting. When I apportion some blame to her, all I am saying is that if she hadn't have been so intoxicated then *perhaps* this wouldn't have happened. By all means, the boys are the culprits and deserve punishment.
    I know some people here probably think my view is disgusting and thats fine. What I find disgusting is how no notice to the mere 1 year sentence is being given here.

    Why is that not the focal point of the story when instead the focal point is some tennis player's comments?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 673
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    dee123 wrote: »
    :confused: Huh? This may not be the best analogy but if someone was asleep, would you steal their wallet? The onus is all on the person who committed a crime.

    Would you not consider the person irresponsible for leaving it out? You have to bare some responsibility for your own welfare regardless of the scenario (in my opinion).
  • Betty BritainBetty Britain Posts: 13,721
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    Nemokins wrote: »
    I agree with a lot of your points here. I'm not justifying rape; its disgusting. When I apportion some blame to her, all I am saying is that if she hadn't have been so intoxicated then *perhaps* this wouldn't have happened. By all means, the boys are the culprits and deserve punishment.
    I know some people here probably think my view is disgusting and thats fine. What I find disgusting is how no notice to the mere 1 year sentence is being given here.

    Why is that not the focal point of the story when instead the focal point is some tennis player's comments?

    Whilst the sentence is absolutely disgraceful ... The point of this topic is Serena Williams comments and pointing the finger at the girl and how if she hadn't been drunk and then questioning if she is a virgin etc... ther is no "perhaps"
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    Nemokins wrote: »
    Would you not consider the person irresponsible for leaving it out? You have to bare some responsibility for your own welfare regardless of the scenario (in my opinion).




    Hypothetically then, a woman walking home from one of the 'slutwalks' that you say you advocate; let's say she is still dressed in her bra and fishnets and walks home. Some predatory men see her dressed in her underwear and gang rape her. She was trying to make a point with the slutwalk but ends up getting brutally attacked - she *has* to take some responsibility does she?

    A woman who has 3 cocktails instead of her usual 2 and wears a skirt slightly shorter than normal. She is also brutally raped. Does she have to accept some blame?

    Should we all stay within our limits and just accept that rapists will rape?
  • attackmusicattackmusic Posts: 3,828
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    Rape victims aren't to blame in ANY way. Anyone who thinks they asked for it or should have been more careful are insensitive, disgusting individuals.

    Serena's comments are ignorant and harmful, but I wouldn't expect different from her. Her behaviour in the past hasn't exactly been classy, to say the least.

    Just sad to see the amount of people agreeing with her.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    Criticizing the victim for being drunk is not saying she is to blame for what happened to her. Both acts are not mutually exclusive. As Serena says, something much worse could have happened to her. If a drink-driver collides with someone driving around without their seatbelt on, the victim will have to bear responsibility for their own.recklessness but that doesn't detract from the fact they were hit by someone who shouldn't have been driving. They could have seriously hurt themselves all by themselves without the actions of the drink-driver. This is the point. It's nothing to do with victim blaming.
  • wilehelmaswilehelmas Posts: 3,610
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    dee123 wrote: »
    What moronic comments. I don't think she realizes what's going to be coming her way.....

    A Wimbledon trophy I should imagine.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    What puzzles me mostly..is why is she commenting about this case at all? The poor girl is being made to look at fault.. If those lads were decent they wouldn't of taken advantage of a very obviously drunken girl and made sure she was taken home or got help for her

    I think it's because the lass accepted drinks from people she didn't trust. That was quite stupid. I think they're idiots for taking advantage of her when she was like that. I hope next time she doesn't accept alcoholic drinks from people she doesn't trust.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    zx50 wrote: »
    I think it's because the lass accepted drinks from people she didn't trust. That was quite stupid. I think they're idiots for taking advantage of her when she was like that. I hope next time she doesn't accept alcoholic drinks from people she doesn't trust.

    Or any drink at all whether it's water of fruit juice. It could be spiked.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    Nemokins wrote: »
    Would you not consider the person irresponsible for leaving it out? You have to bare some responsibility for your own welfare regardless of the scenario (in my opinion).

    Smack bang on. People, men or women, need to keep themselves as safe as they can when around people they don't trust much, especially where alcohol's concerned. No excuse for men to rape you, but just stay away from risky situations, that's all.
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    End-Em-All wrote: »
    Criticizing the victim for being drunk is not saying she is to blame for what happened to her. Both acts are not mutually exclusive. As Serena says, something much worse could have happened to her. If a drink-driver collides with someone driving around without their seatbelt on, the victim will have to bear responsibility for their own.recklessness but that doesn't detract from the fact they were hit by someone who shouldn't have been driving. They could have seriously hurt themselves all by themselves without the actions of the drink-driver. This is the point. It's nothing to do with victim blaming.



    Not sure what on earth that contributes to this particular discussion?

    I mentioned drink driving earlier and how I have no sympathy for people that engage in this activity.

    Drinking too much and getting behind the wheel of a vehicle is immensely reckless and can cause the loss of life due to the drinker's actions. The drinker is solely to blame.

    Drinking too much and getting raped is the fault of no-one but the rapist(s). (the rape, obviously).
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    End-Em-All wrote: »
    Or any drink at all whether it's water of fruit juice. It could be spiked.

    Yeah, I never thought of that. No situation is 100% risk free, but people can always try though.
  • shelleyj89shelleyj89 Posts: 16,292
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    Where has the "she doesn't trust them" idea come from? As far as I am aware, she went to school with them and knew them, so I'd imagine she trusted them enough to think they wouldn't do what they did to her.
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    OK ladies.

    Go out and don't drink too much.

    Don't accept any drink from anyone you don't even know - even bar workers who make them?

    Don't wear anything suggestive.

    Blokes:

    Just rape. Feel free!
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    shelleyj89 wrote: »
    Where has the "she doesn't trust them" idea come from? As far as I am aware, she went to school with them and knew them, so I'd imagine she trusted them enough to think they wouldn't do what they did to her.

    It came from me thinking that these were random lads at a party that she got talking to.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    zx50 wrote: »
    Smack bang on. People, men or women, need to keep themselves as safe as they can when around people they don't trust much, especially where alcohol's concerned. No excuse for men to rape you, but just stay away from risky situations, that's all.

    Why is it so difficult for certain people to grasp this fairly simple point as you've clearly put it?
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,227
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    OK ladies.

    Go out and don't drink too much.

    Don't accept any drink from anyone you don't even know - even bar workers who make them?

    Don't wear anything suggestive.

    Blokes:

    Just rape. Feel free!

    You'll find that I actually said drinks were okay if they came from the bar. You might want to go back and read where I said this.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    Not sure what on earth that contributes to this particular discussion?

    I mentioned drink driving earlier and how I have no sympathy for people that engage in this activity.

    Drinking too much and getting behind the wheel of a vehicle is immensely reckless and can cause the loss of life due to the drinker's actions. The drinker is solely to blame.

    Drinking too much and getting raped is the fault of no-one but the rapist(s). (the rape, obviously).

    No different from the analogies you've used.

    If you get hit by a drink-driver while driving without a seatbelt on you must take responsibility for your own recklessness if wearing a seatbelt may have minimised your injuries. This girl should take responsibility for her own recklessness. Nothing needed to have happened to her for me to make the exact point.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    OK ladies.

    Go out and don't drink too much.

    Don't accept any drink from anyone you don't even know - even bar workers who make them?

    Don't wear anything suggestive.

    Blokes:

    Just rape. Feel free!


    Stop being sexist. Men DO get raped as well.
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    zx50 wrote: »
    You'll find that I actually said drinks were okay if they came from the bar. You might want to go back and read where I said this.



    Are they though?

    Can we really trust *everyone*? Seriously? How do we know that 'hunky' barman isn't a predatory rapist? Perhaps we should have had the foresight to intuit this before he raped us??

    If we're advocating not even taking soft drinks from strangers, where do we draw the line?

    No-one is suggesting that caution isn't always advised and it is never a good idea to drink too much etc.. however, it is the fault ONLY of the rapists that this crime was committed.
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    End-Em-All wrote: »
    No different from the analogies you've used.

    If you get hit by a drink-driver while driving without a seatbelt on you must take responsibility for your own recklessness if wearing a seatbelt may have minimised your injuries. This girl should take responsibility for her own recklessness. Nothing needed to have happened to her for me to make the exact point.



    So if she'd been sober they wouldn't have raped her? Nothing needed to have happened to her if they hadn't have raped her.
  • The PrumeisterThe Prumeister Posts: 22,398
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    End-Em-All wrote: »
    Stop being sexist. Men DO get raped as well.




    I'm not.


    I'm not the one suggesting that women should stop drinking so much and be sebsible; however, others are.
  • End-Em-AllEnd-Em-All Posts: 23,629
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    So if she'd been sober they wouldn't have raped her? Nothing needed to have happened to her if they hadn't have raped her.

    I refer you to an earlier post of mine:
    End-Em-All wrote: »
    The truth is the girl put herself in a vulnerable position by being so drunk that these criminals took advantage of her. Of course, they may have done the same had she not been drunk but Serena's comments should be viewed in context. Having said all that, I'm not quite sure why being a virgin had anything to do with anything.
  • JasonJason Posts: 76,557
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    Nemokins wrote: »
    She's only saying what many were probably thinking; some blame must be attributed to the girl

    I'm certainly glad i'm not one of the "many" then as no blame should ever be attributed to the victim. IMO that should the default response every time.
    Nemokins wrote: »
    I'm surprised the attention isn't on the two boys though..they only got a 1 year sentence!

    It's certainly a poor decision, but then as I said earlier in the thread, for some reason in some states in the US, college 'football' players seem to be above the law because it will "affect their careers" - it's something I really don't quite get.
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