Or a lead in to next season's arc in which the Doctor investigates Orson the Impossible Boy.
Three Words.
Thanks!
And as for the impossible boy... I'm guessing that Clara being preggers and exposed to the Tardis energy ala Amy/River is going to add to such a story line...the doctor needs to stop travelling with young women who keep getting knocked up.
well ...... I haven't seen part 2 yet! but part 1 reminded me very much of Tomb of the Cybermen. Which - funnily enough - is on drama channel at 4 pm today in just over 1 hour. folks might like to compare ...... the cybermen coming out of their tombs is a cliffhanger at the end of one of the episodes, but today it is being shown as one long story ......
What a let down in many ways. Once again the Cybermen did very little apart from stand around looking menacing. Missy as placed by ms Gomez was waaay over the top - exaggerated poses, facial twitches and just unbelievable. The only time I recognised any of the Master in her was her callous way of dishing out death. Plot made no sense but at least they killed off Danny Pink and hopefully the Missy Master. What I did like were the effects which I thought were very good, The last hurrah for the Brigadier and Capaldis performance which I thought was superb, he is going to make a great Doctor given the right scripts. The ending (half way through the end credits) was superb I am, realy looking forward to the Christmas special. Has Clara left for good, I somehow doubt it.
There are lots of things to enjoy about this episode - and lots of things to dislike about it too.
And series 8 as a whole for that matter.
I liked:
the little bouquets to the fans
the use of UNIT
the (all too) brief reappearance of Osgood
the Cybermen climbing all over the plane
the Doctor skydiving to the falling TARDIS
Missy/Master (performance and motivation)
Danny (performance, likeable character)
Clara (performance, but not a likeable character)
The Doctor (performance, but not a likeable character)
I disliked:
the central notion of resurrecting the recent and long dead as Cybermen (an attempt to exploit the recent popularity of zombie flicks?)
the killing of Osgood (she sort of represented fans for me)
The Doctor's passivity
The distortion of characters to fit plot (Clara especially)
Plot details that don't make sense (Missy's coming and going; convenient lapse of that to allow dead Danny to make a dramatic sacrifice)
I think the direction for series 8 has been wrong.
In a family show, I want the lead heroes to be likeable. I want them to be troubled by dilemmas, yes, occasionally by self doubt, yes. But I don't want the whole focus of the show to become to too edgy and obsessed with moral ambiguity. It seems obvious, but Doctor Who is not an adult drama, it's a family drama. And in a family show I want the leads to be good role models. Doctor Who has not been that for the majority of this series for my taste.
What a let down in many ways. Once again the Cybermen did very little apart from stand around looking menacing. Missy as placed by ms Gomez was waaay over the top - exaggerated poses, facial twitches and just unbelievable. The only time I recognised any of the Master in her was her callous way of dishing out death. Plot made no sense but at least they killed off Danny Pink and hopefully the Missy Master. What I did like were the effects which I thought were very good, The last hurrah for the Brigadier and Capaldis performance which I thought was superb, he is going to make a great Doctor given the right scripts. The ending (half way through the end credits) was superb I am, realy looking forward to the Christmas special. Has Clara left for good, I somehow doubt it.
That was brilliant, except for the Brigadier cameo which I felt didn't work that much but other than that, brilliant. Glad Kate survived/was rescued by her father.
Osgood's death surprised me but much as I liked Danny, I'm glad his death actually stuck this series, even if returning the boy he killed to the living was not something I expected.
The Master has some brilliantly bonkers moments in this episode and her motives for the Cyber army were believable enough, even if she should've realised the Doctor wouldn't fall for it.
The Doctor banging the console after realising the Master had tricked him about Gallifrey was a sublime moment too actually.
Clara nearly killed the Master but didn't get the chance. I hope we do see Gomez's Master again. I say we will.
The Cybermen actually didn't do all that much in the episode but this still was the best use of them in Moffat's era for now.
The Doctor and Clara lying to each other about Gallifrey and Danny though, not good.
But then, as the Doctor argues, pain is what separates us from the monsters; certainly, it’s what he believes separates him from the other renegade Time Lord who stole a TARDIS and ran away from home. This sentiment is one of several incisive 12th Doctor moments that “Death In Heaven” provides. There is no aspiration here, but merely the grim recognition that to live is to hurt others, be it physical, psychological, emotional, or whatever else. The Doctor’s every attempt to play the hero forces him to make terrible decisions, to prioritize the possible survival of some over the certain death of others. As he wistfully observed at the end of “Mummy On The Orient Express,” “Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you still have to choose.” Peter Capaldi has brought so much to the role in his first year, and one of his particular assets is the anguish he brings to the Doctor’s worst moments. The realization that the only way to save Earth is to sacrifice whatever’s left of Danny definitely qualifies. This Doctor doesn’t make a performance of his grief in the same way his immediate predecessors sometimes did, but—whatever he might claim—he still feels every dreadful consequence of his actions. That’s what separates him from the Master’s insanity.
"Eww"? Really? Nick Frost was the best thing about last night's episode, imo, and the only thing that stopped me from deciding not to bother with the Christmas Special.
"Eww"? Really? Nick Frost was the best thing about last night's episode, imo, and the only thing that stopped me from deciding not to bother with the Christmas Special.
That was the loudest I've sighed since Lets Kill Hitler.
Thankfully the teaser saved it - with Santa's grumpy elves.
That review has made me appreciate the finale a lot more, will have to give it another watch.
Something that has defined Moffat's era is him having some seriously brilliant ideas but never quite living up to them with the execution, and I think on the whole this series has been better in that regard but still not quite as good as it could be. Still I'd rather writers have ambition than play it safe.
Recovered after that first "I am the Doctor" gubbins which frankly left me feeling a bit sick in the stomach....it just felt like they were p#ssing all over Capaldis Doctor.
Recovered from that horror (which frankly was a waste of time) and really enjoyed all the Doctor/UNIT/Mastress stuff.
But the thing was spoiled for me by the total naffness of the Mastresses plan. Let's face it , it felt like she was just throwing sh!t out there to see what stuck. Just like a certain writer :-
This might have been a suitable conversation:-
Doctor :- So explain this Clara thing again.
Mastress: Well she's the control freak and you're the man who should never be controlled.
Doctor : And ?
Mastress : You'd go to hell for her.
Doctor : Oh and I wouldn't have for any other companion ?
Mastress: Well err......
Doctor: So this cyber army, which will enable me to rule the universe with you by my side (poor form with telling me the thinking behind your strategy by the way)...
Mastress: Yes ?
Doctor : How does me accepting it stop the rain ?
Mastress: Well the cyber army could tell you how to stop it
Doctor: Go on humour me..tell me how
Mattress: Well they could fly up and self destruct and wipe the clouds out.
Doctor: So then I'm down a cyber army ?
Mastress: Well.........
Doctor : You're pretty crap at this planning lark aren't you
Mastress : Ohh look it's Moriarty..sorry I mean Santa
For me the best moment of the show was Chris Addison going "squeeeeee" at the Doctor finding the key during his wind surfing......
surely that was Mr Moffat sticking two fingers up at a certain crowd........
a lovely dark ending to the episode I thought - I love it when Dr Who is dark with funny endings - sometimes the show can be a bit too comfortable and ends with a happy they live ever after moralising.
oh no - not with this show you don't.
Thank god.
Death in Heaven was like the old Who crashing into new Who and mashing and melding - many would have missed the odd nods to the old original series but also to the new series run too.
Refreshing to see the Doctor and his frustration at not finding Gallifrey - mixed feelings there at why he wants them back so badly - is it them or his family he wants?
Well, Mr Hestia and I really enjoyed it so it was quite a shock to visit the forum and find out that we weren't supposed to. Not. We really are experts in tearing down what we profess to love.
Well, Mr Hestia and I really enjoyed it so it was quite a shock to visit the forum and find out that we weren't supposed to. Not. We really are experts in tearing down what we profess to love.
I had the same feeling. It was quite an adventure, with a new take on the Cybermen
(note that they did not convert every single dead person) and the Master.
Missy was more of a Delgado Master, I feel, though I could have done without the "Bananas!" John Simm moments.
It will be interesting to see how the Americans will respond to a "President of the World" when there were no obvious Americans on the plane. I would have expected at least a few soldiers guarding the Doctor.
Cybermen crawling over the airplane! That was quite the Shatner/Lithgow moment
when one looked in the window!
This household loved it! (4 young 'uns (aged 12 to 20) and 3 oldies)
There were lots of moments I loved - but my favourite was the Doctor's realisation that he's just an idiot with a box and screwdriver travelling and helping out. Other favourites -- Seb's reaction to the Doctor finding the Tardis key; the Doctor's pain and fury at not finding Gallifrey; and his goodbye with Clara ( and the reason for not liking hugs) had me (and most of the household) tearing up.
I agree Missy's plan was crazy and convoluted -- but in general most evil villains' plans are! I just put it down to their sociapathic tendencies.
I voted poor. As a finale it just didn't do it for me.
I thought Missy was brilliant, Gomez was brilliant - I loved her singing "oh missy you're so fine" haha - but in the end her plan was rubbish. As if the doctor is going to accept a cyber army.
That's the thing that annoyed me the most. All of the cybermen did nothing! I know they were mainly "newborns" but there was no real battle or even a threat from them in my eyes.
There were bits that I liked, such as Osgood, and the plane but compared to other finales from the new series I just felt like it was such an anticlimax! Especially with Clara half heartedly leaving, I just felt so much more could've been done after the big reveal last week.
It was horrid and nasty. I'm actually surprised so many fans are squeeing themselves over it.
Surely it is in character for the Brig?
Once he reawakened as a Cyberman, his first thought was to find his daughter where she was falling her to her death, and carry her to the ground. Good for him.
Then, as he didn't have the Doctor's scruples about taking Missy's life, he had a pot-shot at her too. As she probably saw him raise his arm to fire (he was facing her, and she must have seen him over the Doctor's shoulder) no doubt she teleported to her TARDIS (or wherever) and survives for a return.
But I can see nothing at all wrong with the Cyber-Brig's actions - do you think he WOULDN'T want to help??? and it was nice he finally got his salute.
Well, Mr Hestia and I really enjoyed it so it was quite a shock to visit the forum and find out that we weren't supposed to. Not. We really are experts in tearing down what we profess to love.
This.
Some people in here are positively gleeful in shouting their disappointment - real toys out of the pram stuff.
And I REALLY object to being instructed how I should not have enjoyed it by people whose language skills run to 'this was crap' and similar pearls of wisdom, often worded with a very poor grasp of spelling and punctuation.
Some people in here are positively gleeful in shouting their disappointment - real toys out of the pram stuff.
And I REALLY object to being instructed how I should not have enjoyed it by people whose language skills run to 'this was crap' and similar pearls of wisdom, often worded with a very poor grasp of spelling and punctuation.
Really, shouldn't you feel sympathy for those of us who didn't like the episode? It's not as if we want to feel disappointed by our favourite programme being below standard, you know. I'm sure we all wanted to love it. And now we feel sad because we didn't.
And if you have your own reasons to like the episode in spite of it's very obvious shortcomings (all pointed out very articulately on this thread and others - if you bother to read those posts) then that's fine. Those of us who don't like it may wonder why you do, but I suspect we have all been in that position when an episode we like has been slated on here - different people like different things.
No need to feel defensive and become offensive to those who feel differently.
It's more the way people handle their disappointment. There have been plenty of peop who didn't like it (like myself) who have put a list of reasons and not just called it a crap episode.
For every one of those posts you get a one liner such as 'I hate moffat'. It's nothing new.
Comments
Thanks!
And as for the impossible boy... I'm guessing that Clara being preggers and exposed to the Tardis energy ala Amy/River is going to add to such a story line...the doctor needs to stop travelling with young women who keep getting knocked up.
is moffy now going retro, with tribute shows ?
There are lots of things to enjoy about this episode - and lots of things to dislike about it too.
And series 8 as a whole for that matter.
I liked:
the little bouquets to the fans
the use of UNIT
the (all too) brief reappearance of Osgood
the Cybermen climbing all over the plane
the Doctor skydiving to the falling TARDIS
Missy/Master (performance and motivation)
Danny (performance, likeable character)
Clara (performance, but not a likeable character)
The Doctor (performance, but not a likeable character)
I disliked:
the central notion of resurrecting the recent and long dead as Cybermen (an attempt to exploit the recent popularity of zombie flicks?)
the killing of Osgood (she sort of represented fans for me)
The Doctor's passivity
The distortion of characters to fit plot (Clara especially)
Plot details that don't make sense (Missy's coming and going; convenient lapse of that to allow dead Danny to make a dramatic sacrifice)
I think the direction for series 8 has been wrong.
In a family show, I want the lead heroes to be likeable. I want them to be troubled by dilemmas, yes, occasionally by self doubt, yes. But I don't want the whole focus of the show to become to too edgy and obsessed with moral ambiguity. It seems obvious, but Doctor Who is not an adult drama, it's a family drama. And in a family show I want the leads to be good role models. Doctor Who has not been that for the majority of this series for my taste.
No, she is in the Christmas special.
Osgood's death surprised me but much as I liked Danny, I'm glad his death actually stuck this series, even if returning the boy he killed to the living was not something I expected.
The Master has some brilliantly bonkers moments in this episode and her motives for the Cyber army were believable enough, even if she should've realised the Doctor wouldn't fall for it.
The Doctor banging the console after realising the Master had tricked him about Gallifrey was a sublime moment too actually.
Clara nearly killed the Master but didn't get the chance. I hope we do see Gomez's Master again. I say we will.
The Cybermen actually didn't do all that much in the episode but this still was the best use of them in Moffat's era for now.
The Doctor and Clara lying to each other about Gallifrey and Danny though, not good.
Nick Frost as Santa Claus though, eww. 9/10
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/doctor-who-death-heaven-211601
"Eww"? Really? Nick Frost was the best thing about last night's episode, imo, and the only thing that stopped me from deciding not to bother with the Christmas Special.
- were the co-ordinates wrong?
- has the Master destroyed Gallfrey?
- were they having a power cut there?
I read it that the Master is a lying git.
Lying was quite a theme last night. The Doctor and Clara lied to make the other feel better. The Master lied to mess with the Doctor's head.
A lie to buy some time I assume.
That was the loudest I've sighed since Lets Kill Hitler.
Thankfully the teaser saved it - with Santa's grumpy elves.
That review has made me appreciate the finale a lot more, will have to give it another watch.
Something that has defined Moffat's era is him having some seriously brilliant ideas but never quite living up to them with the execution, and I think on the whole this series has been better in that regard but still not quite as good as it could be. Still I'd rather writers have ambition than play it safe.
Recovered after that first "I am the Doctor" gubbins which frankly left me feeling a bit sick in the stomach....it just felt like they were p#ssing all over Capaldis Doctor.
Recovered from that horror (which frankly was a waste of time) and really enjoyed all the Doctor/UNIT/Mastress stuff.
But the thing was spoiled for me by the total naffness of the Mastresses plan. Let's face it , it felt like she was just throwing sh!t out there to see what stuck. Just like a certain writer :-
This might have been a suitable conversation:-
Doctor :- So explain this Clara thing again.
Mastress: Well she's the control freak and you're the man who should never be controlled.
Doctor : And ?
Mastress : You'd go to hell for her.
Doctor : Oh and I wouldn't have for any other companion ?
Mastress: Well err......
Doctor: So this cyber army, which will enable me to rule the universe with you by my side (poor form with telling me the thinking behind your strategy by the way)...
Mastress: Yes ?
Doctor : How does me accepting it stop the rain ?
Mastress: Well the cyber army could tell you how to stop it
Doctor: Go on humour me..tell me how
Mattress: Well they could fly up and self destruct and wipe the clouds out.
Doctor: So then I'm down a cyber army ?
Mastress: Well.........
Doctor : You're pretty crap at this planning lark aren't you
Mastress : Ohh look it's Moriarty..sorry I mean Santa
surely that was Mr Moffat sticking two fingers up at a certain crowd........
a lovely dark ending to the episode I thought - I love it when Dr Who is dark with funny endings - sometimes the show can be a bit too comfortable and ends with a happy they live ever after moralising.
oh no - not with this show you don't.
Thank god.
Death in Heaven was like the old Who crashing into new Who and mashing and melding - many would have missed the odd nods to the old original series but also to the new series run too.
Refreshing to see the Doctor and his frustration at not finding Gallifrey - mixed feelings there at why he wants them back so badly - is it them or his family he wants?
10 out of 10.
(note that they did not convert every single dead person) and the Master.
Missy was more of a Delgado Master, I feel, though I could have done without the "Bananas!" John Simm moments.
It will be interesting to see how the Americans will respond to a "President of the World" when there were no obvious Americans on the plane. I would have expected at least a few soldiers guarding the Doctor.
Cybermen crawling over the airplane! That was quite the Shatner/Lithgow moment
when one looked in the window!
There were lots of moments I loved - but my favourite was the Doctor's realisation that he's just an idiot with a box and screwdriver travelling and helping out. Other favourites -- Seb's reaction to the Doctor finding the Tardis key; the Doctor's pain and fury at not finding Gallifrey; and his goodbye with Clara ( and the reason for not liking hugs) had me (and most of the household) tearing up.
I agree Missy's plan was crazy and convoluted -- but in general most evil villains' plans are! I just put it down to their sociapathic tendencies.
I thought Missy was brilliant, Gomez was brilliant - I loved her singing "oh missy you're so fine" haha - but in the end her plan was rubbish. As if the doctor is going to accept a cyber army.
That's the thing that annoyed me the most. All of the cybermen did nothing! I know they were mainly "newborns" but there was no real battle or even a threat from them in my eyes.
There were bits that I liked, such as Osgood, and the plane but compared to other finales from the new series I just felt like it was such an anticlimax! Especially with Clara half heartedly leaving, I just felt so much more could've been done after the big reveal last week.
Let's hope the Xmas special is decent.
Surely it is in character for the Brig?
Once he reawakened as a Cyberman, his first thought was to find his daughter where she was falling her to her death, and carry her to the ground. Good for him.
Then, as he didn't have the Doctor's scruples about taking Missy's life, he had a pot-shot at her too. As she probably saw him raise his arm to fire (he was facing her, and she must have seen him over the Doctor's shoulder) no doubt she teleported to her TARDIS (or wherever) and survives for a return.
But I can see nothing at all wrong with the Cyber-Brig's actions - do you think he WOULDN'T want to help??? and it was nice he finally got his salute.
This.
Some people in here are positively gleeful in shouting their disappointment - real toys out of the pram stuff.
And I REALLY object to being instructed how I should not have enjoyed it by people whose language skills run to 'this was crap' and similar pearls of wisdom, often worded with a very poor grasp of spelling and punctuation.
Really, shouldn't you feel sympathy for those of us who didn't like the episode? It's not as if we want to feel disappointed by our favourite programme being below standard, you know. I'm sure we all wanted to love it. And now we feel sad because we didn't.
And if you have your own reasons to like the episode in spite of it's very obvious shortcomings (all pointed out very articulately on this thread and others - if you bother to read those posts) then that's fine. Those of us who don't like it may wonder why you do, but I suspect we have all been in that position when an episode we like has been slated on here - different people like different things.
No need to feel defensive and become offensive to those who feel differently.
For every one of those posts you get a one liner such as 'I hate moffat'. It's nothing new.