A few years ago, Dermot o'Leary was NOT wearing a poppy during one of those lottery quiz shows. It turned out it had been recorded months in advance, but there was still criticism of how awful he was for not wearing a poppy.
Reading this thread again I can see no evidence whatsoever that BBC employees (or anyone else for that matter) are forced to wear poppies.
"Forced" would be the wrong word but one wonders why the BBC (and ITV and Sky) even feel the need to hand out poppies to guests just before they go on TV. Are the British media and the Royal British Legion all part of the same organisation? I would have thought the wearing of something symbolic like a poppy should be entirely voluntary and guests should source their own ones before going on a TV show.
A few years ago, Dermot o'Leary was NOT wearing a poppy during one of those lottery quiz shows. It turned out it had been recorded months in advance, but there was still criticism of how awful he was for not wearing a poppy.
The reaction to Irish player James McClean refusing to wear one on his football shirt at Sunderland was very telling. He received death threats on Twitter over it (the reason for his stance was that he's from the city of Derry where Bloody Sunday took place).
"Forced" would be the wrong word but one wonders why the BBC (and ITV and Sky) even feel the need to hand out poppies to guests just before they go on TV. Are the British media and the Royal British Legion all part of the same organisation? I would have thought the wearing of something symbolic like a poppy should be entirely voluntary and guests should source their own ones before going on a TV show.
I think the probable reason has already been covered.
Many people will wear a poppy when they are dressing smartly for something, but not necessarily outdoors.
And the poppies often get battered looking very quickly, and so it makes common sense when someone is appearing on TV (or in a meeting, or on the reception desk) to put a fresh one on.
It looks much smarter than one that has been in your pocket, in the wet etc and is starting to look wilted.
I always buy one, but rarely wear it outside because the only place to put it on my coat is in the hole at the end of the zip tag, which doesn't hold it well, and doesn't work very well (because the zip is meant to be covered).
If I was doing anything "public facing" (let alone on TV), during the relevant period I'd probably end up buying a fresh one every few days, or keep a couple in the desk so I could replace it when it started to get battered.
The offering of the fresh poppies to presenters will be the same sort of thing, it looks better to have a fresh poppy on than one that looks like it's been in your pocket/got soaked.
The reaction to Irish player James McClean refusing to wear one on his football shirt at Sunderland was very telling. He received death threats on Twitter over it (the reason for his stance was that he's from the city of Derry where Bloody Sunday took place).
Perhaps the lad was ill informed and poorly educated about the fact that thousand of Irish people fought in the British armed forces in the first and second world wars and hundreds of citizens from the Irish Republic still serve in the UK armed forces to today.
In addition when people throw around terms such as "BBC poppy fascism" in such purile way they should stop to think about what fascism and nazism really meant and stop being so trite.
I think the probable reason has already been covered.
Many people will wear a poppy when they are dressing smartly for something, but not necessarily outdoors.
And the poppies often get battered looking very quickly, and so it makes common sense when someone is appearing on TV (or in a meeting, or on the reception desk) to put a fresh one on.
It looks much smarter than one that has been in your pocket, in the wet etc and is starting to look wilted.
I always buy one, but rarely wear it outside because the only place to put it on my coat is in the hole at the end of the zip tag, which doesn't hold it well, and doesn't work very well (because the zip is meant to be covered).
If I was doing anything "public facing" (let alone on TV), during the relevant period I'd probably end up buying a fresh one every few days, or keep a couple in the desk so I could replace it when it started to get battered.
The offering of the fresh poppies to presenters will be the same sort of thing, it looks better to have a fresh poppy on than one that looks like it's been in your pocket/got soaked.
In theory that's fine, but to the best of my knowledge the BBC, ITV and Sky are not part of the Royal British Legion or vice versa and it should really be of no concern to them whether any of their guests (or employees for that matter) are wearing a fresh or crumpled poppy. It would actually be very healthy if more and more people challenged the ethos and refused to wear one on TV as a point of principle.
Perhaps the lad was ill informed and poorly educated about the fact that thousand of Irish people fought in the British armed forces in the first and second world wars and hundreds of citizens from the Irish Republic still serve in the UK armed forces to today.
In addition when people throw around terms such as "BBC poppy fascism" in such purile way they should stop to think about what fascism and nazism really meant and stop being so trite.
They did indeed but those Irish soldiers also fought for the right of later generations to refuse to wear a poppy if they so desired : it's a clear example of democracy at work (I've no problem with the poppy at all, just the seemingly mandatory element that has crept in in recent years).
The reaction to Irish player James McClean refusing to wear one on his football shirt at Sunderland was very telling. He received death threats on Twitter over it (the reason for his stance was that he's from the city of Derry where Bloody Sunday took place).
I don't see that is a good reason, he can wear one to respect the many Irish (from all communities) who died in both World Wars.
They did indeed but those Irish soldiers also fought for the right of later generations to refuse to wear a poppy if they so desired : it's a clear example of democracy at work (I've no problem with the poppy at all, just the seemingly mandatory element that has crept in in recent years).
The poppy is a simple symbol of remembrance it isn't and has never been mandatory, I am really surprised anyone has a problem with it.
I pay my donation and I support the cause but I don't see the need to wear a poppy 100% of the time i'm in public. However if I knew I was appearing on national tv, or any other public display i'd make sure I had one.
Quite right. This is the most obvious factor of all and I can't believe the moaners haven't taken it into consideration. If you were going to appear on national television at this time of year in front of millions people, most of us would make an extra effort to put on a poppy. It has nothing to do with being forced to do it by the TV station.
Perhaps the lad was ill informed and poorly educated about the fact that thousand of Irish people fought in the British armed forces in the first and second world wars and hundreds of citizens from the Irish Republic still serve in the UK armed forces to today.
There in a nutshell is the reason why people in the public eye who would not wear a poppy given a free choice decide to wear one after all - to save themselves getting grief from people who refuse to accept their conscientious objections.
The poppy is a simple symbol of remembrance it isn't and has never been mandatory, I am really surprised anyone has a problem with it.
Times change, that's how it should be but it gets too politicised these days, in the modern era there should be no need for British Legion or Help for Heroes, the British government should for the bill for all the physical and mental health needs of ex servicemen and women, especially as the number of who faced the draft in WW II is in rapid decline.
Anyone who signs up to be an employees of the services should not have to rely on charity.
If people are being offered them, then surely it is still their choice?
Yes, as I said, but with it being a matter of routine in-studio, attempts to persuade and the ridiculous outcry when someone is singled out on TV for NOT wearing one, it is a very loaded choice.
You may as well say that people walking down the High Street shouldn't be offered them either.
You don't tend to see joe public being abused or sent death threats for not wearing a Poppy, with public figures it is a different matter.
It just seems incredible to me that people take offence at the idea that people appearing on tv are encouraged to wear a poppy which, after all, commemorates all those who have given their lives in wars.
The poppy has been inextricably linked to the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, a lot of people don't want to be seen as supporting that cause, or feel pressured to do so.
To be honest, comparing this to fascism that actually was fought against in wars is a little offensive and belittles the sacrifices that people made.
No it doesn't belittle anyone's sacrifice as it's not the dead soldiers putting on the pressure, so the slight is not against them.
If every time I went into work someone offered to pin a brand new poppy to my shirt I would be happy to let them - and I imagine the vast, vast majority of people would as well. However we all know how much of a pain it is to maintain a wearable poppy throughout the period and transfer it to every viewable layer of clothing each time you change.
I pay my donation and I support the cause but I don't see the need to wear a poppy 100% of the time i'm in public. However if I knew I was appearing on national tv, or any other public display i'd make sure I had one.
Spot on. Word for word.
I havent got a poppy on today. If I was on TV, working especially, I wouldnt be without one.
As far as we all know, it is not mandatory. So the only principle might be one of being opposed to wars & conflict
It is strongly encouraged, and failure to do so carries a great risk of catching undeserved abuse from the public. Perhaps that's something worth challenging, to some.
I tried to buy one earlier in the week, they were not on sale, officially, until yesterday, apparently.
I have just retired, so not wearing a whistle and flute anymore so I bought a pin for the jacket as no button-hole and a poppy on a clip to clip to the end of the zipper tag on the waterproof - it was designed for children (reflective) but fits mine fine. Got one for the dog lead as well - which has raised a number of complementary comments.
Also bought 5 of the ceramic poppies from the Tower that will be released when the display is removed.
Proud to be able to speak English, thanks to my Dad and Uncles who fought for my rights.
I would like to give some information to this thread, and an opinion.
The information is that paying money for a red poppy is giving the money to the British Legion for them to spend on helping families of members of the forces who have died in a conflict, and members of the forces who have been injured in conflict, and veterans who need help with housing and finding a job.
That is the purpose of Poppy day, to raise money for that reason. It is hoped to raise £40 million pounds for it.
Those are the facts.
Now for the opinion.
I do not think that there is a single person in the whole country outside of MPs and their ilk, who considers that those functions should be carried out by a charity - we normal people all think that should be done as part of the Defence budget,
It would cost 40 million pounds out of the UK defence costs of 60 billion pounds. I am fairly certain that they can not tell within £40 million what they are going to spend anyway. Out of every £100 spent it is a few pence.
So, all you people who support poppy buying, tell me why it should be charity work and not part of armed forces expenditure?
I would like to give some information to this thread, and an opinion.
The information is that paying money for a red poppy is giving the money to the British Legion for them to spend on helping families of members of the forces who have died in a conflict, and members of the forces who have been injured in conflict, and veterans who need help with housing and finding a job.
That is the purpose of Poppy day, to raise money for that reason. It is hoped to raise £40 million pounds for it.
Those are the facts.
Now for the opinion.
I do not think that there is a single person in the whole country outside of MPs and their ilk, who considers that those functions should be carried out by a charity - we normal people all think that should be done as part of the Defence budget,
It would cost 40 million pounds out of the UK defence costs of 60 billion pounds. I am fairly certain that they can not tell within £40 million what they are going to spend anyway. Out of every £100 spent it is a few pence.
So, all you people who support poppy buying, tell me why it should be charity work and not part of armed forces expenditure?
The government funds the Commonwealth War Graves Commission which does a superb job around the world, maintaining some 23,000 cemeteries and memorials in 153 countries.
Comments
"Forced" would be the wrong word but one wonders why the BBC (and ITV and Sky) even feel the need to hand out poppies to guests just before they go on TV. Are the British media and the Royal British Legion all part of the same organisation? I would have thought the wearing of something symbolic like a poppy should be entirely voluntary and guests should source their own ones before going on a TV show.
The reaction to Irish player James McClean refusing to wear one on his football shirt at Sunderland was very telling. He received death threats on Twitter over it (the reason for his stance was that he's from the city of Derry where Bloody Sunday took place).
I think the probable reason has already been covered.
Many people will wear a poppy when they are dressing smartly for something, but not necessarily outdoors.
And the poppies often get battered looking very quickly, and so it makes common sense when someone is appearing on TV (or in a meeting, or on the reception desk) to put a fresh one on.
It looks much smarter than one that has been in your pocket, in the wet etc and is starting to look wilted.
I always buy one, but rarely wear it outside because the only place to put it on my coat is in the hole at the end of the zip tag, which doesn't hold it well, and doesn't work very well (because the zip is meant to be covered).
If I was doing anything "public facing" (let alone on TV), during the relevant period I'd probably end up buying a fresh one every few days, or keep a couple in the desk so I could replace it when it started to get battered.
The offering of the fresh poppies to presenters will be the same sort of thing, it looks better to have a fresh poppy on than one that looks like it's been in your pocket/got soaked.
Perhaps the lad was ill informed and poorly educated about the fact that thousand of Irish people fought in the British armed forces in the first and second world wars and hundreds of citizens from the Irish Republic still serve in the UK armed forces to today.
In addition when people throw around terms such as "BBC poppy fascism" in such purile way they should stop to think about what fascism and nazism really meant and stop being so trite.
In theory that's fine, but to the best of my knowledge the BBC, ITV and Sky are not part of the Royal British Legion or vice versa and it should really be of no concern to them whether any of their guests (or employees for that matter) are wearing a fresh or crumpled poppy. It would actually be very healthy if more and more people challenged the ethos and refused to wear one on TV as a point of principle.
They did indeed but those Irish soldiers also fought for the right of later generations to refuse to wear a poppy if they so desired : it's a clear example of democracy at work (I've no problem with the poppy at all, just the seemingly mandatory element that has crept in in recent years).
I don't see that is a good reason, he can wear one to respect the many Irish (from all communities) who died in both World Wars.
He should be able to choose not too and not be subject to death threats.
Or be the subject of racist and sexist abuse like this ITV news presenter.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/charlene-white-itv-news-presenter-remembrance-day-poppy?CMP=share_btn_tw
The poppy is a simple symbol of remembrance it isn't and has never been mandatory, I am really surprised anyone has a problem with it.
He had his reasons, and they were good enough for him.
It is his decision and should be respected. Just like anyone who doesn't wish to wear one.
There in a nutshell is the reason why people in the public eye who would not wear a poppy given a free choice decide to wear one after all - to save themselves getting grief from people who refuse to accept their conscientious objections.
Times change, that's how it should be but it gets too politicised these days, in the modern era there should be no need for British Legion or Help for Heroes, the British government should for the bill for all the physical and mental health needs of ex servicemen and women, especially as the number of who faced the draft in WW II is in rapid decline.
Anyone who signs up to be an employees of the services should not have to rely on charity.
You don't tend to see joe public being abused or sent death threats for not wearing a Poppy, with public figures it is a different matter.
The poppy has been inextricably linked to the recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, a lot of people don't want to be seen as supporting that cause, or feel pressured to do so.
No it doesn't belittle anyone's sacrifice as it's not the dead soldiers putting on the pressure, so the slight is not against them.
Spot on. Word for word.
I havent got a poppy on today. If I was on TV, working especially, I wouldnt be without one.
But on what point of principle exactly?
As far as we all know, it is not mandatory. So the only principle might be one of being opposed to wars & conflict
Why would you feel the need to wear one if you were on TV especially?
I have just retired, so not wearing a whistle and flute anymore
Also bought 5 of the ceramic poppies from the Tower that will be released when the display is removed.
Proud to be able to speak English, thanks to my Dad and Uncles who fought for my rights.
Jeff
What other language would you be speaking?
The information is that paying money for a red poppy is giving the money to the British Legion for them to spend on helping families of members of the forces who have died in a conflict, and members of the forces who have been injured in conflict, and veterans who need help with housing and finding a job.
That is the purpose of Poppy day, to raise money for that reason. It is hoped to raise £40 million pounds for it.
Those are the facts.
Now for the opinion.
I do not think that there is a single person in the whole country outside of MPs and their ilk, who considers that those functions should be carried out by a charity - we normal people all think that should be done as part of the Defence budget,
It would cost 40 million pounds out of the UK defence costs of 60 billion pounds. I am fairly certain that they can not tell within £40 million what they are going to spend anyway. Out of every £100 spent it is a few pence.
So, all you people who support poppy buying, tell me why it should be charity work and not part of armed forces expenditure?
Probably German
The government funds the Commonwealth War Graves Commission which does a superb job around the world, maintaining some 23,000 cemeteries and memorials in 153 countries.