That's one month in 2009 ? I'm no mac hater but saying fastest selling desktops-laptops is stupid. business schools gamers take most of the market. Very little business will have needs for macs. Schools are same ( I'm one biggest sixth forms/schools in England and theirs one class room with them in) Gamers ( They take up a lot of the market Dx11 graphics cards have sold 41 million ) they will most probably chose Custom builds or PC's due limited support and lack of GPU drivers.
Nobody was ever talking business PCs. We're talking about consumer desktops. As in what people actually buy for themselves.
(I think you vastly overestimate the hardcore, custom-building, geek gamer market btw).
No you are paying for OS X, design, testing, the software, support and service and a 100 other things that Sony, Dell and HP owners can only dream about. That's why 94% of Mac owners are satisfied and less than 50% of OEM owners are and that is why 50% of new Mac buyers are going over from Windows.
50% of new Mac buyers would be moving from Windows because Windows is the predominant OS and 50% of not a lot is, in real terms, not a lot. Where do the other 50% of new mac users come from, Linux?
Laptops for peripatetic use with youth groups? I would go for a Windows based system and save the group some money. You could use some of the saved cash on a nice big monitor which is so much nicer when working on graphic applications.
If you really want to spend some money and impress the youngsters buy an Alienware laptop you get change from £2K on some models.
Also remember that away from you the likelihood is that the youngsters will be using Windows technology and not Mac so why complicate things.
You might be right, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true that some council or charity gave money to someone who didn't have a clue to just go out and "Buy an Apple laptop".
I run a youth club and have been given money to buy an Apple laptop.
It would be used for secure data storage, art & design projects and also for the young people to access the internet (via mobile internet).
I don't have a clue what one to pick. Can anyone help, please?
A 13" MacBook pro might be the one to go for if you're dead set on a Mac but it will set you back a cool grand.
As others have said if this is for a youth club and is likely to get rough handling a better bet would probably be a Windows laptop with a fairly large screen which would probably cost you half that.
I've just read again the runs this youth club. Major waste of cash if you buy a mac!!
If this is a council run Youth Club then yet again public cash is being wasted on things that aren't really necessary (Mac over a cheaper PC), but as the taxpayer foots the bill the mentality of "no expense should be spared" rumbles on!
Same with the NHS program where public funds were used to subsidise NHS workers getting MS Office Pro for a cool £10 (usual price around £350). Luckily that scheme has ended now and the waste of public funds in that manner isn't carrying on.
If the OP hasn't been frightened off by all the usual half-witted fanboy nonsense, a simple question will help make things clearer:
Is there a specific reason why the organisation requires an Apple (i.e. less malware to worry about)? Or is it a vague reason (i.e. someone in the organisation said that a Mac would be needed for art & design use)?
If the OP hasn't been frightened off by all the usual half-witted fanboy nonsense, a simple question will help make things clearer:
Is there a specific reason why the organisation requires an Apple (i.e. less malware to worry about)? Or is it a vague reason (i.e. someone in the organisation said that a Mac would be needed for art & design use)?
Oh haha, the less malware with a Mac myth. I hope you are aware that on average, you are safer with a Windows PC combined with the internet security software which is pretty much standard these days, than you are with a Mac. These days a Mac even with security software tends to be more vulnerable than the typical PC to direct computer attacks, because Apple is very poor at fixing known security holes.
If this is a council run Youth Club then yet again public cash is being wasted on things that aren't really necessary (Mac over a cheaper PC), but as the taxpayer foots the bill the mentality of "no expense should be spared" rumbles on!
Same with the NHS program where public funds were used to subsidise NHS workers getting MS Office Pro for a cool £10 (usual price around £350). Luckily that scheme has ended now and the waste of public funds in that manner isn't carrying on.
It was IIRC £13.50 and a partnership programme with Microsoft (Microsoft gave the software for free) available to all employees of the Trust. The money was to cover postage costs of the disk from Germany. No NHS funds were spent on this deal I was told by the Trusts I.T. Manager.
Oh haha, the less malware with a Mac myth. I hope you are aware that on average, you are safer with a Windows PC combined with the internet security software which is pretty much standard these days, than you are with a Mac. These days a Mac even with security software tends to be more vulnerable than the typical PC to direct computer attacks, because Apple is very poor at fixing known security holes.
:eek: I hope this is't the case. *goes off in search of security software*
I hope you are aware that on average, you are safer with a Windows PC combined with the internet security software which is pretty much standard these days, than you are with a Mac.
Now, this actually is a myth.
Even if OSX and Windows were equally vulnerable, the vast majority of malware is aimed at Windows. So, Windows users are more likely to be infected and are therefore 'less safe'.
If, overnight, the world's malware writers decided to target Macs instead of Windows, everything would reverse and Macs would now become 'less safe'.
This is one of those times when it's actually better to remain on the fence and allow yourself to see both sides of the argument and not have to rely upon agenda-based myths. The PC world is teaming with malware and AV is only effective if common sense and a basic understanding of online security is used along side of it. The reason the Mac world is currently safer is simply because Apple only have around 5% of the market, as opposed to Window's 90%. So far, the Mac market is still too insignificant for the malware writers to bother with. But this will undoubtedly change one day, which is why I've always recommended that Mac users should also use common sense and have a basic understanding of online security.
If, overnight, the world's malware writers decided to target Macs instead of Windows, everything would reverse and Macs would now become 'less safe'.
This is one of those times when it's actually better to remain on the fence and allow yourself to see both sides of the argument and not have to rely upon agenda-based myths. The PC world is teaming with malware and AV is only effective if common sense and a basic understanding of online security is used along side of it. The reason the Mac world is currently safer is simply because Apple only have around 5% of the market, as opposed to Window's 90%. So far, the Mac market is still too insignificant for the malware writers to bother with. But this will undoubtedly change one day, which is why I've always recommended that Mac users should also use common sense and have a basic understanding of online security.
Your advice is spot on, but I don't think things are about to change with malware unless the Mac marketshare hits 50%+. I don't see that happening. As we see in this thread lots of people buy on price point. Whether that is wise or not is another matter entirely. :cool:
If this is a council run Youth Club then yet again public cash is being wasted on things that aren't really necessary (Mac over a cheaper PC), but as the taxpayer foots the bill the mentality of "no expense should be spared" rumbles on!
Perhaps they are more concerned about malware, total cost of ownership or perhaps certain Mac software is necessary. A whole lot of money is wasted by buying the cheapest rather than the best.
Same with the NHS program where public funds were used to subsidise NHS workers getting MS Office Pro for a cool £10 (usual price around £350). Luckily that scheme has ended now and the waste of public funds in that manner isn't carrying on.
Was that subsidised or a way that MS wanted to avoid people learning how good Open Office was? AFAIK the HUP is still in use with HMG (and you can choose MS Office for Mac or Windows or do as I did and buy both ) MS offers HUP to government and business and I know of no subsidy in either case.
And 3 years AppleCare for £40. The cheap OEM competition will charge you about £360 for the same coverage. :eek:
Yes, if you're foolish enough to buy an extended warranty from the DSG group. That's the DSG Group who are infamous for their extortionate extended warranties.
By comparison, a quick check shows that Dell are currently offering a 3 year, on-site, next day warranty for £120.
Yes, if you're foolish enough to buy an extended warranty from the DSG group. That's the DSG Group who are infamous for their extortionate extended warranties.
By comparison, a quick check shows that Dell are currently offering a 3 year, on-site, next day warranty for £120.
Rather different from AppleCare though. Dell sends out a local yokel called Roger who may not have either the tools nor any idea what is wrong with your computer. To be fair some of these guys are good but in general Dell's reputation for support and service is pretty dire.
What would you class as a tiny niche market? 5% maybe...?
Max you are being very naughty here. What you are trying to imply is that since Apple has 5% of the total computer market it is a tiny niche market. However about 70% of all computers go to Enterprise (almost all Windows OEM machines). All of a sudden that 5% is actually 5% of 30% and since Apple doesn't market in Eastern Europe, much of Africa and Asia - the numbers where they do sell are significant. By dollar value about half of all PC consumer sales are Macs.
Your advice is spot on, but I don't think things are about to change with malware unless the Mac marketshare hits 50%+. I don't see that happening. As we see in this thread lots of people buy on price point. Whether that is wise or not is another matter entirely. :cool:
Buy on price or performance? add the ability to easily upgrade from many different manufacturers and you can fine tune a PC way more than you can a Mac to suit your needs. My son and I use similar PC's on the home network, similar apart from the £200+ graphics card he fitted in his but then he's well into gaming. I would guess my machine would out perform in terms of speed/power/memory a Mac and his would certainly out perform them for gaming.
Even with his expensive graphics card his setup was still cheaper than a typical Mac desktop.
So Vallhund, a dilemma for some users, buy a Mac or pay less and get a better specification machine? Please don't drone on about build quality, the Mac's use a lot of bog standard kit these days, same Chinese folk knocking out Apple kit as for other suppliers.
Logically the whole Mac V PC stance comes down to a simple "I like Macs more than PC's", its certainly not on performance as the PC wins overall these days and Windows 7 has bought a great OS to millions of users.
Rather different from AppleCare though. Dell sends out a local yokel called Roger who may not have either the tools nor any idea what is wrong with your computer. To be fair some of these guys are good but in general Dell's reputation for support and service is pretty dire.
When it comes to a hardware fault, the main diagnosis is done over the phone. In most cases, it's going to be an easy-to-diagnose part like the PSU, hard drive, optical drive or RAM. These can be replaced simply and quickly by 'Roger'. Motherboard problems, granted, can be harder to diagnose.
What are these 'tools' which Roger apparently needs, anyway? And would a company like Dell really employ/contract someone who knows nothing at all about fixing computers?
Max you are being very naughty here. What you are trying to imply is that since Apple has 5% of the total computer market it is a tiny niche market. However about 70% of all computers go to Enterprise (almost all Windows OEM machines). All of a sudden that 5% is actually 5% of 30% and since Apple doesn't market in Eastern Europe, much of Africa and Asia - the numbers where they do sell are significant. By dollar value about half of all PC consumer sales are Macs.
Or to look at it another way - 5% of the total market.
When it comes to a hardware fault, the main diagnosis is done over the phone. In most cases, it's going to be an easy-to-diagnose part like the PSU, hard drive, optical drive or RAM. These can be replaced simply and quickly by 'Roger'. Motherboard problems, granted, can be harder to diagnose.
What are these 'tools' which Roger apparently needs, anyway? And would a company like Dell really employ/contract someone who knows nothing at all about fixing computers?
Buy on price or performance? add the ability to easily upgrade from many different manufacturers and you can fine tune a PC way more than you can a Mac to suit your needs. My son and I use similar PC's on the home network, similar apart from the £200+ graphics card he fitted in his but then he's well into gaming. I would guess my machine would out perform in terms of speed/power/memory a Mac and his would certainly out perform them for gaming.
Even with his expensive graphics card his setup was still cheaper than a typical Mac desktop.
So Vallhund, a dilemma for some users, buy a Mac or pay less and get a better specification machine? Please don't drone on about build quality, the Mac's use a lot of bog standard kit these days, same Chinese folk knocking out Apple kit as for other suppliers.
Logically the whole Mac V PC stance comes down to a simple "I like Macs more than PC's", its certainly not on performance as the PC wins overall these days and Windows 7 has bought a great OS to millions of users.
Spec wars are great for gamers. I know, I game on the pc.
But I also know regular hardware is good enough for most folks, and what matters is not their gpu/gzh figures, but what can they actually do with their system. Apple software suites make what many folks want to do with their computers easily possible. You can't argue with that.
What you can do with a machine productively is completely ignored much of the time. Gaming or posting on ds...not exactly things you'd list to be proud of;) You can write apps or do other work on any machine, multimedia creation with apples software suites is also productive stuff.
Rather different from AppleCare though. Dell sends out a local yokel called Roger who may not have either the tools nor any idea what is wrong with your computer. To be fair some of these guys are good but in general Dell's reputation for support and service is pretty dire.
Heh i would rather that than apples recent 'customer service'. Wanted me to travel 200 miles to the nearest genius bar failing that i had to give them by debit or credit card the value of the item needing replaced until they received the old broken item back. Give me Rodger who will come to my home any day lol
Anyway, Dell nor any other OEM supplier do that these days. Week or so turn around for you to send the machine to them then them to send it back.
Apple 'used' to be superb but recently, last year or so they have went way downhill. Also apples indian call center i dealt with didnt help matters :mad:
Please don't drone on about build quality, the Mac's use a lot of bog standard kit these days, same Chinese folk knocking out Apple kit as for other suppliers.
Apple macs and the macbook are made by foxconn who make a lot of the mobos for OEM computers as well.
CPU, chipsets and the like found in macs are the same found in any other computer so really the only thing built better maybe on a mac is the case. Personally i would never choose them for PC parts if i was to self build.
Comments
(I think you vastly overestimate the hardcore, custom-building, geek gamer market btw).
Nah, it's just lazy Googling, it's the first result from http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=iMac+bestselling+desktop and it's dated 2009.
50% of new Mac buyers would be moving from Windows because Windows is the predominant OS and 50% of not a lot is, in real terms, not a lot. Where do the other 50% of new mac users come from, Linux?
Laptops for peripatetic use with youth groups? I would go for a Windows based system and save the group some money. You could use some of the saved cash on a nice big monitor which is so much nicer when working on graphic applications.
If you really want to spend some money and impress the youngsters buy an Alienware laptop you get change from £2K on some models.
Also remember that away from you the likelihood is that the youngsters will be using Windows technology and not Mac so why complicate things.
A 13" MacBook pro might be the one to go for if you're dead set on a Mac but it will set you back a cool grand.
As others have said if this is for a youth club and is likely to get rough handling a better bet would probably be a Windows laptop with a fairly large screen which would probably cost you half that.
If this is a council run Youth Club then yet again public cash is being wasted on things that aren't really necessary (Mac over a cheaper PC), but as the taxpayer foots the bill the mentality of "no expense should be spared" rumbles on!
Same with the NHS program where public funds were used to subsidise NHS workers getting MS Office Pro for a cool £10 (usual price around £350). Luckily that scheme has ended now and the waste of public funds in that manner isn't carrying on.
Is there a specific reason why the organisation requires an Apple (i.e. less malware to worry about)? Or is it a vague reason (i.e. someone in the organisation said that a Mac would be needed for art & design use)?
Oh haha, the less malware with a Mac myth. I hope you are aware that on average, you are safer with a Windows PC combined with the internet security software which is pretty much standard these days, than you are with a Mac. These days a Mac even with security software tends to be more vulnerable than the typical PC to direct computer attacks, because Apple is very poor at fixing known security holes.
It was IIRC £13.50 and a partnership programme with Microsoft (Microsoft gave the software for free) available to all employees of the Trust. The money was to cover postage costs of the disk from Germany. No NHS funds were spent on this deal I was told by the Trusts I.T. Manager.
:eek: I hope this is't the case. *goes off in search of security software*
Yes, there is less malware for OSX than there is for Windows. This is not a myth, it is a fact. And a rather obvious fact, at that.
Now, this actually is a myth.
Even if OSX and Windows were equally vulnerable, the vast majority of malware is aimed at Windows. So, Windows users are more likely to be infected and are therefore 'less safe'.
If, overnight, the world's malware writers decided to target Macs instead of Windows, everything would reverse and Macs would now become 'less safe'.
This is one of those times when it's actually better to remain on the fence and allow yourself to see both sides of the argument and not have to rely upon agenda-based myths. The PC world is teaming with malware and AV is only effective if common sense and a basic understanding of online security is used along side of it. The reason the Mac world is currently safer is simply because Apple only have around 5% of the market, as opposed to Window's 90%. So far, the Mac market is still too insignificant for the malware writers to bother with. But this will undoubtedly change one day, which is why I've always recommended that Mac users should also use common sense and have a basic understanding of online security.
Your advice is spot on, but I don't think things are about to change with malware unless the Mac marketshare hits 50%+. I don't see that happening. As we see in this thread lots of people buy on price point. Whether that is wise or not is another matter entirely. :cool:
15% off on avg it is. Will save a packet.
Perhaps they are more concerned about malware, total cost of ownership or perhaps certain Mac software is necessary. A whole lot of money is wasted by buying the cheapest rather than the best.
Was that subsidised or a way that MS wanted to avoid people learning how good Open Office was? AFAIK the HUP is still in use with HMG (and you can choose MS Office for Mac or Windows or do as I did and buy both
A very tiny niche market if there ever was one.
And 3 years AppleCare for £40. The cheap OEM competition will charge you about £360 for the same coverage. :eek:
Yes, if you're foolish enough to buy an extended warranty from the DSG group. That's the DSG Group who are infamous for their extortionate extended warranties.
By comparison, a quick check shows that Dell are currently offering a 3 year, on-site, next day warranty for £120.
What would you class as a tiny niche market? 5% maybe...?
Rather different from AppleCare though. Dell sends out a local yokel
Max you are being very naughty here.
Buy on price or performance? add the ability to easily upgrade from many different manufacturers and you can fine tune a PC way more than you can a Mac to suit your needs. My son and I use similar PC's on the home network, similar apart from the £200+ graphics card he fitted in his but then he's well into gaming. I would guess my machine would out perform in terms of speed/power/memory a Mac and his would certainly out perform them for gaming.
Even with his expensive graphics card his setup was still cheaper than a typical Mac desktop.
So Vallhund, a dilemma for some users, buy a Mac or pay less and get a better specification machine? Please don't drone on about build quality, the Mac's use a lot of bog standard kit these days, same Chinese folk knocking out Apple kit as for other suppliers.
Logically the whole Mac V PC stance comes down to a simple "I like Macs more than PC's", its certainly not on performance as the PC wins overall these days and Windows 7 has bought a great OS to millions of users.
When it comes to a hardware fault, the main diagnosis is done over the phone. In most cases, it's going to be an easy-to-diagnose part like the PSU, hard drive, optical drive or RAM. These can be replaced simply and quickly by 'Roger'. Motherboard problems, granted, can be harder to diagnose.
What are these 'tools' which Roger apparently needs, anyway? And would a company like Dell really employ/contract someone who knows nothing at all about fixing computers?
Or to look at it another way - 5% of the total market.
Sorry I meant parts. Roger is cheap, not good.
The 70% that goes to industry isn't relevant to consumers. It's the equivalent of the "white van".
Spec wars are great for gamers. I know, I game on the pc.
But I also know regular hardware is good enough for most folks, and what matters is not their gpu/gzh figures, but what can they actually do with their system. Apple software suites make what many folks want to do with their computers easily possible. You can't argue with that.
What you can do with a machine productively is completely ignored much of the time. Gaming or posting on ds...not exactly things you'd list to be proud of;) You can write apps or do other work on any machine, multimedia creation with apples software suites is also productive stuff.
Heh i would rather that than apples recent 'customer service'. Wanted me to travel 200 miles to the nearest genius bar failing that i had to give them by debit or credit card the value of the item needing replaced until they received the old broken item back. Give me Rodger who will come to my home any day lol
Anyway, Dell nor any other OEM supplier do that these days. Week or so turn around for you to send the machine to them then them to send it back.
Apple 'used' to be superb but recently, last year or so they have went way downhill. Also apples indian call center i dealt with didnt help matters :mad:
Apple macs and the macbook are made by foxconn who make a lot of the mobos for OEM computers as well.
CPU, chipsets and the like found in macs are the same found in any other computer so really the only thing built better maybe on a mac is the case. Personally i would never choose them for PC parts if i was to self build.