£1,327,238,200,000 UK national debt and rising by the month

radyagradyag Posts: 2,220
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The sad truth is, we will never pay that off and are forever doomed.:( Regardless of who wins in may.
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  • andersonsonsonandersonsonson Posts: 6,454
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    We pay £7bn in foreign aid which is just madness! To be honest, I have given up hope on the country and humanity, its completed ruined
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    radyag wrote: »
    The sad truth is, we will never pay that off and are forever doomed.:( Regardless of who wins in may.
    I don't mind being forever doomed as long as the nation can afford the interest payments and the country never financially collapses under a mountain of debt, if the doom never befalls us then we are not really doomed.
  • Evo102Evo102 Posts: 13,630
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    And who do we owe all this money too?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    We pay £7bn in foreign aid which is just madness! To be honest, I have given up hope on the country and humanity, its completed ruined
    You complain about foreign aid and say you have given up hope on humanity. Did you give up your own humanity first?
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    Funny how the Tories don't mention debt so much now.
  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    Evo102 wrote: »
    And who do we owe all this money too?

    We owe some of it to ourselves, strangely.
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Funny how the Tories don't mention debt so much now.

    Well, there is no point talking about debt until the deficit is gone
  • gulliverfoylegulliverfoyle Posts: 6,318
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    its a ponzi

    as with all ponzis you eventually run out of suckers sorry investors

    and all those at the top make all the money

    and those at the bottom lose
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,074
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    We owe some of it to ourselves, strangely.
    Yeah we created money out of thin air and used it to buy £375 billion of our debt and then decided we would forgive ourselves the interest payments on that debt. Once the structural deficit is under control I expect we will write into existance money to pay off that debt we owe our selves and then once paid write the money back out of existance.

    Also one might ask how much money is the UK owed, as we have also lent money to other nations in £'s at higher interest than we pay on the money we owe.

    Back in 2011
    The US owed us 834.5 billion euros, France owed us 227 billion euros, Germany 141.1 billion euros, Ireland 104.5 billion euros, Japan 101.8 billion euros
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696
  • Old Man 43Old Man 43 Posts: 6,214
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    radyag wrote: »
    The sad truth is, we will never pay that off and are forever doomed.:( Regardless of who wins in may.

    It does not need to be paid off. What needs to happen is to balance the budget, grow the economy by approx 3% per year and have inflation at 2% per year.

    This will reduce the national debt as a percentage of GDP to more normal levels. Hopefully one day it will get below 40% of GDP again.

    If growth and inflation rise to high above those levels (say 3% for each) then that will be counterproductive and should be avoided.

    Ideally we need 10 years of steady growth and inflation (after we have got rid of the budget deficit) to achieve this.
  • sangrealsangreal Posts: 20,901
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    It says 1.46T here
    http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

    Though yeah, 1.36T here
    http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt

    Evo102 wrote: »
    And who do we owe all this money too?

    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

    The UK national debt is the total amount of money the British government owes to the private sector and other purchasers of UK gilts.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_debt

    The UK National debt is the total quantity of money borrowed by the Government of the United Kingdom at any one time through the issue of securities by the British Treasury and other government agencies.

    Alas, the best explanation I've found so far is here.... I hate to have to link to this site though :-(
    http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/whom-does-government-owe-all-money

    Jol44 wrote: »
    Funny how the Tories don't mention debt so much now.

    Even funnier that they still accuse Labour of being "the borrowing party" when they've borrowed more in 4 years than Labour did in 13 and the debt has actually doubled since 2010.

    It's all one big Con.
  • Dr. ClawDr. Claw Posts: 7,375
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    dont nearly all countries run a debt? strange that it seems the norm
  • AndyCopenAndyCopen Posts: 2,213
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    Germany is doing very nicelym but since the whole continent is run for their benefit, no suprise really
  • LandisLandis Posts: 14,855
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    Lessons from 2010.

    Q: What were the root causes and triggers of our current debt levels?
    A: Screw that. Who is Driving the Car Right Now?
  • Alan1981Alan1981 Posts: 5,416
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Funny how the Tories don't mention debt so much now.

    And yet there are some people on the left who want to reintroduce the free bedroom subsidy. Which will add yet further to the debt.
  • sangrealsangreal Posts: 20,901
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    Alan1981 wrote: »
    And yet there are some people on the left who want to reintroduce the free bedroom subsidy. Which will add yet further to the debt.

    Not really. The spare bedroom subsidy saves about £2B/yr off the budget (tax payers' money) so it can be spent on something else instead...

    Instead of punishing the most vulnerable in society (the disabled, sick, unemployed, and poverty-stricken) who don't have the money to pay for their rent, wouldn't it make more sense and be fairer to promote the living wage instead, so that people in work actually receive a decent wage and therefore no longer qualify for/need to claim in-work benefits?

    Other than pensions, the biggest part of the benefits bill comes from in-work benefits (working tax credits, housing benefit etc) because thousands (maybe millions?) are on extremely low incomes.

    This is what happens when you fiddle the unemployment figures by moving/forcing people off job seekers' allowance on to workfare / training schemes / self-employed / zero hour contracts etc (on top of sanctioning thousands of people as well).

    All the cuts have actually knocked very little off the overall benefits bill.

    It's all one big Con.
  • nethwennethwen Posts: 23,374
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    Disgraceful!
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    AndyCopen wrote: »
    Germany is doing very nicelym but since the whole continent is run for their benefit, no suprise really

    Germany has a massive economy yet even they have only just managed to balance their budget this year and that's with a £260bn trade surplus.

    That's why we haven't got a hope in hell of trading our way out of this problem, it can only be fixed by population reduction and and/or spending cuts.
  • nethwennethwen Posts: 23,374
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    Germany has a massive economy yet even they have only just managed to balance their budget this year and that's with a £260bn trade surplus.

    That's why we haven't got a hope in hell of trading our way out of this problem, it can only be fixed by population reduction and and/or spending cuts.

    Or better still, the people of this country learning to live within their own means.
  • rusty123rusty123 Posts: 22,872
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    So rather than banging on about the tories why aren't the usual suspects on here questioning why Labour:

    a) talk about creating a surplus as if it's a bad thing and
    b) have a relaxed attitude towards bringing down the deficit because they want to do it "fairly"
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    Germany has a massive economy yet even they have only just managed to balance their budget this year and that's with a £260bn trade surplus.

    That's why we haven't got a hope in hell of trading our way out of this problem, it can only be fixed by population reduction and and/or spending cuts.

    Any non authoritarian suggestions for population reduction?
  • TheTruth1983TheTruth1983 Posts: 13,462
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    nethwen wrote: »
    Or better still, the people of this country learning to live within their own means.

    Come on we can't have that. Spending what we don't have on crap we don't need is what makes the US......sorry UK great.
  • SpotSpot Posts: 25,121
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    sangreal wrote: »

    Even funnier that they still accuse Labour of being "the borrowing party" when they've borrowed more in 4 years than Labour did in 13 and the debt has actually doubled since 2010.

    It's all one big Con.

    Perhaps you'll tell us how they were supposed to stop borrowing when they came to office, given the legacy of their predecessors. Stop all benefit payments perhaps? Close down all public services?
  • wazzyboywazzyboy Posts: 13,346
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    Spot wrote: »
    Perhaps you'll tell us how they were supposed to stop borrowing when they came to office, given the legacy of their predecessors. Stop all benefit payments perhaps? Close down all public services?

    That's what's happening, gradually anyway, and won't stop if Labour get in
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,772
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    Debt is impossible to avoid in the current system.


    Nothing will alter until the system is changed.
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