As I wasn't ever connected to any of the organisations that the tv unions represented then yes you are right - I'm not biased .
My view is that of the viewer - the majority of which had just about had enough of the stupid rules and regulations forced on companies by unions stuck in the dark ages which is why Thatcher was voted in.
Clearly someone who benefited from the restrictions will be biased towards them.
......
BSB didn't save Sky . It was the other way round although neither were doing too well at the time.
But Sky had been round for several years and its UK service was already 12 months old when BSB started . For over a month BSB was only available on cable and less than 5 months after the satellite service started it was on the verge of collapse .
The main problem was that BSB had bid ridiculous amounts for movies and sports and couldn't sustain the service .
The merger was what allowed Sky to start Sky Sports in favour of Eurosport.
...........
"The merger may have saved Sky financially; Sky had very healthier advertising contracts and equipment apparently solved the company's problems."few major advertisers to begin with. Acquiring BSB's
Neither company could have succeeded without the merger, it would have been interesting to see which would have folded first, your assertion is Sky, I am not so sure.
.... Your working at the BBC clearly makes you a bit biased don't you think?
No;
I worked, on a salaried basis, for the BBC Television Service as a graduate engineer;
I worked, on an unpaid basis, as an accredited representative of other employees of the BBC, under the 'umbrella' of the ABS and successor certified Trade Unions;
I gave freely of my own time, the BBC released me from duty when required, to perform representative activities;
I was repeatedly re-elected by my peers to represent their interests;
I had the respect of BBC (Television) management for both my professional conduct and my representative duties;
the BBC is required by the Royal Charter under which it is incorporated to ensure adequate representation of staff with regard to their working conditions is in place;
I played my part in ensuring that obligation was fulfilled, as did many many others of varying political persuassions.
'Bias' had nothing to do with any accredited representative duties.
I remain of the opinion that you have published in a publicly accessible discussion forum, under a cloak of anonymity, a libel against me.
I am of the opinion that you are in breach of the terms and conditions of this board in that you have ascribed behaviour to me that has no basis in reality and have thus show dispresect for views that I may have expressed.
There seem plenty of people on here who are very biased but with no connection with the BBC. They will believe any half truth or gossip published in the tabloids whilst not believing any counter argument from people with some knowledge of the subject. I would call that bias.
Without wishing to get into the flame wars going on here, just an observation about the legality of Sky television prior to the merger with BSB.
Sky Television was carried by UK-based cable television systems from the mid 80s onwards. It was a licence requirement that all programme services carried on cable systems had to be approved by the regulator and that the regulator could demand the removal of any services if they were in breach of legislation. These licences were originally issued by the Home Office, who placed Sky on the list of approved channels. That function was then taken over by the Cable Authority in 1986 and they, too, placed Sky Television on the list of approved channels. Sky television were therefore never considered as 'pirates'.
I was the Controller of Programmes at the Cable Authority and was responsible for putting Sky on that list. They behaved very responsibly and observed the Programme and Advertising Codes correctly.
There seem plenty of people on here who are very biased but with no connection with the BBC.
They will believe any half truth or gossip published in the tabloids whilst not believing any counter argument from people with some knowledge of the subject.
I still await some detail to be added to the allegation about
I joined the ABS for a time but resigned when they were heading fast towards a strike and I had never been consulted or given chance to vote on it. I did not even know who my local union representative was.
Are you here referring to an ABS Branch within a BBC Directorate? I am not asking you which Branch, but am concerned that if it was within Television Directorate you felt neither consulted nor represented.
Without wishing to get into the flame wars going on here, just an observation about the legality of Sky television prior to the merger with BSB.
Sky Television was carried by UK-based cable television systems from the mid 80s onwards. It was a licence requirement that all programme services carried on cable systems had to be approved by the regulator and that the regulator could demand the removal of any services if they were in breach of legislation. These licences were originally issued by the Home Office, who placed Sky on the list of approved channels. That function was then taken over by the Cable Authority in 1986 and they, too, placed Sky Television on the list of approved channels. Sky television were therefore never considered as 'pirates'.
I was the Controller of Programmes at the Cable Authority and was responsible for putting Sky on that list. They behaved very responsibly and observed the Programme and Advertising Codes correctly.
That’s another reason why I do not think Sky was regarded as a pirate
Without wishing to get into the flame wars going on here, just an observation about the legality of Sky television prior to the merger with BSB.
Sky Television was carried by UK-based cable television systems from the mid 80s onwards. It was a licence requirement that all programme services carried on cable systems had to be approved by the regulator and that the regulator could demand the removal of any services if they were in breach of legislation. These licences were originally issued by the Home Office, who placed Sky on the list of approved channels. That function was then taken over by the Cable Authority in 1986 and they, too, placed Sky Television on the list of approved channels. Sky television were therefore never considered as 'pirates'.
I was the Controller of Programmes at the Cable Authority and was responsible for putting Sky on that list. They behaved very responsibly and observed the Programme and Advertising Codes correctly.
Thanks for that TonyCurrie. Are you able to give us any insight as to what 'Sky' was before it became 'Sky'? As per my posting above, I believe it was originally set up by Brian Haynes, was originally known as 'SATV' and operated out of a facilities company in Grafton Street. My memory is sort of telling me that it got into financial difficulties and one of the Murcoch controlled companies sort of financially reversed into it with great speed, gaining some sort of operators licence at the same time. As a result I am fairly certain that 'Sky' didn't start from scratch, but of course it grew very substantially from it's very humble beginnings. Just trying to get a handle on it.
Thanks for that TonyCurrie. Are you able to give us any insight as to what 'Sky' was before it became 'Sky'? As per my posting above, I believe it was originally set up by Brian Haynes, was originally known as 'SATV' and operated out of a facilities company in Grafton Street. My memory is sort of telling me that it got into financial difficulties and one of the Murcoch controlled companies sort of financially reversed into it with great speed, gaining some sort of operators licence at the same time. As a result I am fairly certain that 'Sky' didn't start from scratch, but of course it grew very substantially from it's very humble beginnings. Just trying to get a handle on it.
Brian Haynes worked on a Thames TV documentray about the future of satellite television and got the idea to get in there before anyone else did. Satellite Television ran for a couple of hours in the evening with acquired programming aimed at European cable operators. It wasn't carried in the UK. The business was then acquired by Rupert Murdoch and repositioned as a pan-European service, including the UK. I seem to remember that the BT cable system in Milton Keynes was one of the first (if not the very first) to carry it.
"The merger may have saved Sky financially; Sky had very healthier advertising contracts and equipment apparently solved the company's problems."few major advertisers to begin with. Acquiring BSB's
Neither company could have succeeded without the merger, it would have been interesting to see which would have folded first, your assertion is Sky, I am not so sure.
My assertion is not Sky at all.
BSB was on the verge of collapse less than 6 months after it started because it was run by clueless idiots .
I worked, on a salaried basis, for the BBC Television Service as a graduate engineer;
I worked, on an unpaid basis, as an accredited representative of other employees of the BBC, under the 'umbrella' of the ABS and successor certified Trade Unions;
I gave freely of my own time, the BBC released me from duty when required, to perform representative activities;
I was repeatedly re-elected by my peers to represent their interests;
I had the respect of BBC (Television) management for both my professional conduct and my representative duties;
the BBC is required by the Royal Charter under which it is incorporated to ensure adequate representation of staff with regard to their working conditions is in place;
I played my part in ensuring that obligation was fulfilled, as did many many others of varying political persuassions.
'Bias' had nothing to do with any accredited representative duties.
I remain of the opinion that you have published in a publicly accessible discussion forum, under a cloak of anonymity, a libel against me.
I am of the opinion that you are in breach of the terms and conditions of this board in that you have ascribed behaviour to me that has no basis in reality and have thus show dispresect for views that I may have expressed.
A libel ?
Spoken like a true union puppet.
So sue me :rolleyes:
Regardless of your opinions history shows what the unions were like and why they were smashed by Thatcher and why nobody complained about it .
I've not specified anything about your personal involvement in union business - but having previously been in a union for 17 years I know what unions do.
I daresay you did follow the practices laid down by your union . Pretty sure I've not mentioned that anywhere.
But it was the practices themselves that were the problem which is why the unions are almost powerless today and most of the industry are working on a contract basis.
Well done !!
I give everyones views the respect they deserve. Not sure differing opinions would be against the rules of the board to anyone except a union pen pusher
Or maybe an accurate description of someone who had and seems to continue to have their own ideas despite history showing how the unions wanted companies to work to ideas from the dark ages.
Surprised you would try and justify the ideas and practices of the unions when they've been rightfully shown up for what they were for the last 30 years which is why nobody bar those who were in them would defend them
There seem plenty of people on here who are very biased but with no connection with the BBC. They will believe any half truth or gossip published in the tabloids whilst not believing any counter argument from people with some knowledge of the subject. I would call that bias.
When any truth comes out it always gets blamed on gossip - but there has been more than enough evidence in the last 30+ years to back up the "gossip" .
A documentary on a recent Dr Who dvd aswell as the BBC4 documentaries on Top of the Pops have plenty of evidence from both actors and production teams for starters
.... I believe it was originally set up by Brian Haynes, was originally known as 'SATV' and operated out of a facilities company in Grafton Street.
A colleague of mine resigned her position as Network Director to take her talents and knowlege to this new-fangled satellite channel;
she and others suggested that I should apply to fill the void she left,
the rejection letter I have on file is dated 10th December 1981, so she would have gone some time that autumn.
Sometime later I visited a facilities house, with film company connections, in Wardour Street; one of my former trainees was there doing a VT 'playout' for 'Sky' - but it could have been remote from the 'networking' operation.
I have a strong recollection of being at an ABS / BETA annual conference in Hastings, walking by the sea discussing how television would change given that Murdoch was sniffing around.
I can't date either event with any accuracy, but they'd certainly be before the start of 'Breakfast Time' and TV-am in the early weeks of 1983.
... Are you here referring to an ABS Branch within a BBC Directorate? I am not asking you which Branch, but am concerned that if it was within Television Directorate you felt neither consulted nor represented.
It was not Television, out in the sticks.
When I resigned i received a rather snotty letter from the union that 'not to be pedantic' under Rule <long series of paragraph numbers> all resignations must be submitted through the Branch Secretary. And enclosing a copy of the Rule Book.
I replied that I had no idea who the Branch Secretary was, thanked them for the Rule Book and pointed out that 'not to be pedantic' under Rule <insert paragraph numbers> all new members should be sent a copy and I had not received one. Then told them I was not worried about whether they thought I had resigned correctly because I had written to Salaries to tell them stop all payments. Never heard from them again.
Getting more on topic, the BBC never had an all out strike in the way ITV had in 1979. There were, however, several one day strikes and action by staff such as members of the MU in the seventies and eighties and walkouts that would disrupt broadcasts like Miss World. Yet the BBC strike that impacted me the most was the MU strike in the summer of 1980 that saw TOTP taken off for ten weeks.
Getting more on topic, the BBC never had an all out strike in the way ITV had in 1979. There were, however, several one day strikes and action by staff such as members of the MU in the seventies and eighties and walkouts that would disrupt broadcasts like Miss World. Yet the BBC strike that impacted me the most was the MU strike in the summer of 1980 that saw TOTP taken off for ten weeks.
Yes that was part of the problem in that there seemed to be so many different unions for this that and the other that there appeared to be disruption for one reason or another although I'm sure it wasn't as often as the memory thinks it was .
I always liked it when outside broadcasts were cancelled and cricket or some other live event was replaced by something infinitely more interesting like Dr Who - but that was often down to bad weather as much as union issues.
Yes that was part of the problem in that there seemed to be so many different unions for this that and the other that there appeared to be disruption for one reason or another although I'm sure it wasn't as often as the memory thinks it was .
I always liked it when outside broadcasts were cancelled and cricket or some other live event was replaced by something infinitely more interesting like Dr Who - but that was often down to bad weather as much as union issues.
The BBC had the ABS and the NUJ as their main unions, don't know how big the ACTT was as this was mostly an ITV union. However, the Musicians Union was also very powerful, demanding its members backed up pop groups on TOTP by having a resident MU orchestra until 1982 and also taking the show off air in 1980 as part of a wider dispute over reducing the number of BBC orchestras( also led to massive disruption of The Proms).
The real breaking of the unions came in 1987/88 with TV-AM, where Bruce Gyngell basically said "if you walk out, you're not coming back in." And they didn't, pretty much. The result was a management-run service (Flipper, Happy Days, Batman etc.) which was shambolic in terms of technical quality, but they were still able to earn advertising revenue. Unions were never an issue in television after that.
The real breaking of the unions came in 1987/88 with TV-AM, where Bruce Gyngell basically said "if you walk out, you're not coming back in." And they didn't, pretty much. The result was a management-run service (Flipper, Happy Days, Batman etc.) which was shambolic in terms of technical quality, but they were still able to earn advertising revenue. Unions were never an issue in television after that.
And they were rewarded by loosing the franchise to Sunrise/GMTV, ironic as a process which was engineered to get rid of the likes of Thames who Thatcher hated for Death of a Rock, also got Rid of TV-AM.
I remember the NUJ strikes at the BBC in the late 80's. It was interesting to see which R1 DJ's were NUJ members, Mayo, Bates and Campbell all were members as I recall and off air. Bates was columnist / movie critic for one of the Sunday red tops for a while.
And they were rewarded by loosing the franchise to Sunrise/GMTV, ironic as a process which was engineered to get rid of the likes of Thames who Thatcher hated for Death of a Rock, also got Rid of TV-AM.
You are 'right on the money' with your post. But may I make a minor correction, the programme was "Death on the Rock", a DOCUMENTARY relating to the IRA members who were killed by special forces on Gibralter.
Also Maggie's daughter lost her job at TVAM when they lost their franchise, poetic.
The ABS in the BBC always liked to think of itself as a ''staff association'' rather than a union and little of its industrial action was ever effective (the BBC had too many managers who could step in and run the equipment).The NUJ always lacked the support of its members when they threatened action - I recall a dispute over ''new technology'' (ie computers) which petered out and the BBC made a one-off payment which the majority accepted.Many employees enjoyed the status of working for the BBC and rather frowned on strike action.
Comments
My view is that of the viewer - the majority of which had just about had enough of the stupid rules and regulations forced on companies by unions stuck in the dark ages which is why Thatcher was voted in.
Clearly someone who benefited from the restrictions will be biased towards them.
Sorry if it's confusing
"The merger may have saved Sky financially; Sky had very healthier advertising contracts and equipment apparently solved the company's problems."few major advertisers to begin with. Acquiring BSB's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_Television_plc
Neither company could have succeeded without the merger, it would have been interesting to see which would have folded first, your assertion is Sky, I am not so sure.
I worked, on a salaried basis, for the BBC Television Service as a graduate engineer;
I worked, on an unpaid basis, as an accredited representative of other employees of the BBC, under the 'umbrella' of the ABS and successor certified Trade Unions;
I gave freely of my own time, the BBC released me from duty when required, to perform representative activities;
I was repeatedly re-elected by my peers to represent their interests;
I had the respect of BBC (Television) management for both my professional conduct and my representative duties;
the BBC is required by the Royal Charter under which it is incorporated to ensure adequate representation of staff with regard to their working conditions is in place;
I played my part in ensuring that obligation was fulfilled, as did many many others of varying political persuassions.
'Bias' had nothing to do with any accredited representative duties.
I remain of the opinion that you have published in a publicly accessible discussion forum, under a cloak of anonymity, a libel against me.
I am of the opinion that you are in breach of the terms and conditions of this board in that you have ascribed behaviour to me that has no basis in reality and have thus show dispresect for views that I may have expressed.
There seem plenty of people on here who are very biased but with no connection with the BBC. They will believe any half truth or gossip published in the tabloids whilst not believing any counter argument from people with some knowledge of the subject. I would call that bias.
Sky Television was carried by UK-based cable television systems from the mid 80s onwards. It was a licence requirement that all programme services carried on cable systems had to be approved by the regulator and that the regulator could demand the removal of any services if they were in breach of legislation. These licences were originally issued by the Home Office, who placed Sky on the list of approved channels. That function was then taken over by the Cable Authority in 1986 and they, too, placed Sky Television on the list of approved channels. Sky television were therefore never considered as 'pirates'.
I was the Controller of Programmes at the Cable Authority and was responsible for putting Sky on that list. They behaved very responsibly and observed the Programme and Advertising Codes correctly.
That’s another reason why I do not think Sky was regarded as a pirate
Thanks for that TonyCurrie. Are you able to give us any insight as to what 'Sky' was before it became 'Sky'? As per my posting above, I believe it was originally set up by Brian Haynes, was originally known as 'SATV' and operated out of a facilities company in Grafton Street. My memory is sort of telling me that it got into financial difficulties and one of the Murcoch controlled companies sort of financially reversed into it with great speed, gaining some sort of operators licence at the same time. As a result I am fairly certain that 'Sky' didn't start from scratch, but of course it grew very substantially from it's very humble beginnings. Just trying to get a handle on it.
Brian Haynes worked on a Thames TV documentray about the future of satellite television and got the idea to get in there before anyone else did. Satellite Television ran for a couple of hours in the evening with acquired programming aimed at European cable operators. It wasn't carried in the UK. The business was then acquired by Rupert Murdoch and repositioned as a pan-European service, including the UK. I seem to remember that the BT cable system in Milton Keynes was one of the first (if not the very first) to carry it.
We are now, however, hopelessly off-subject!
BSB was on the verge of collapse less than 6 months after it started because it was run by clueless idiots .
Spoken like a true union puppet.
So sue me :rolleyes:
Regardless of your opinions history shows what the unions were like and why they were smashed by Thatcher and why nobody complained about it .
I've not specified anything about your personal involvement in union business - but having previously been in a union for 17 years I know what unions do.
I daresay you did follow the practices laid down by your union . Pretty sure I've not mentioned that anywhere.
But it was the practices themselves that were the problem which is why the unions are almost powerless today and most of the industry are working on a contract basis.
Well done !!
I give everyones views the respect they deserve. Not sure differing opinions would be against the rules of the board to anyone except a union pen pusher
Or maybe an accurate description of someone who had and seems to continue to have their own ideas despite history showing how the unions wanted companies to work to ideas from the dark ages.
Surprised you would try and justify the ideas and practices of the unions when they've been rightfully shown up for what they were for the last 30 years which is why nobody bar those who were in them would defend them
A documentary on a recent Dr Who dvd aswell as the BBC4 documentaries on Top of the Pops have plenty of evidence from both actors and production teams for starters
she and others suggested that I should apply to fill the void she left,
the rejection letter I have on file is dated 10th December 1981, so she would have gone some time that autumn.
Sometime later I visited a facilities house, with film company connections, in Wardour Street; one of my former trainees was there doing a VT 'playout' for 'Sky' - but it could have been remote from the 'networking' operation.
I have a strong recollection of being at an ABS / BETA annual conference in Hastings, walking by the sea discussing how television would change given that Murdoch was sniffing around.
I can't date either event with any accuracy, but they'd certainly be before the start of 'Breakfast Time' and TV-am in the early weeks of 1983.
It was not Television, out in the sticks.
When I resigned i received a rather snotty letter from the union that 'not to be pedantic' under Rule <long series of paragraph numbers> all resignations must be submitted through the Branch Secretary. And enclosing a copy of the Rule Book.
I replied that I had no idea who the Branch Secretary was, thanked them for the Rule Book and pointed out that 'not to be pedantic' under Rule <insert paragraph numbers> all new members should be sent a copy and I had not received one. Then told them I was not worried about whether they thought I had resigned correctly because I had written to Salaries to tell them stop all payments. Never heard from them again.
I always liked it when outside broadcasts were cancelled and cricket or some other live event was replaced by something infinitely more interesting like Dr Who - but that was often down to bad weather as much as union issues.
The BBC had the ABS and the NUJ as their main unions, don't know how big the ACTT was as this was mostly an ITV union. However, the Musicians Union was also very powerful, demanding its members backed up pop groups on TOTP by having a resident MU orchestra until 1982 and also taking the show off air in 1980 as part of a wider dispute over reducing the number of BBC orchestras( also led to massive disruption of The Proms).
And they were rewarded by loosing the franchise to Sunrise/GMTV, ironic as a process which was engineered to get rid of the likes of Thames who Thatcher hated for Death of a Rock, also got Rid of TV-AM.
You are 'right on the money' with your post. But may I make a minor correction, the programme was "Death on the Rock", a DOCUMENTARY relating to the IRA members who were killed by special forces on Gibralter.
Also Maggie's daughter lost her job at TVAM when they lost their franchise, poetic.