Are you trying to convince me there are no pensioners living on little money and/or no rich kids ?
Just putting your imagine a poor pensioner into perspective. Pensioners are the demographic least likely to be in relative poverty according to the IFS "relative pensioner poverty is now lower than the rate for any other major demographic group"
While for the working age without children relative poverty is a according to the IFS "close to its highest level since our consistent time series began in 1961"
Mind you poverty among working age adults is bound to be increasing if they are working and only earning the minimum wage or they don't have a job and are forced to live off benefits. That's were the unfairness is, so why don't you start a thread complaining about the way this Government is exploiting working-age adults with or without dependent children, instead of picking on pensioners just because they have a bus pass and you don't.
I believe the government should provide non contributory benefits fairly on the basis of need. As such I am opposed to the government giving freebees to people who don't need them while not providing things to other people who do need them.
You don't understand why the public funds shouldn't be used to give pensioners a free lift to the airport for their abroad holidays?
The low frills airline revolution has also gone over your head?
We now live in a world where a private airline without any public money can offer a 200mile round trip at about the same price as a 10 mile trip to the airport from a bus service that receives public money.
Yes, we do. That's what makes your claim that today's young are worse off than today's pensioners when they were young so farcical.
And who has created the world where all this is possible?
Most of the pensioners of today were young adults at a time of far lower unemployment and rapidly rising standards of living. The world then I would hope was optomistic things were good in comparision to how they had been and were getting better. Today we have higher unemployment especially youth unemployment and rising costs of living - falling standards of living. Some of the young adults of today seem less optomistic about their future and lot in life, they see a bleak future. Despite the fact that working hours and conditions are generally far better today and the general standard of living enjoyed today is generally far higher today. And I for one expect technolog to march on and the standard of living to improve over the decades to come.
Most of today's pensioners will have enjoyed a far lower standard of living and equally high unemployment as older workers in the 80s, having already lived through the grim 70s with the three day week.
You think being young unemployed is hard? Try it in your 50's.
The national debt of over £1.5 trillion that resulted from people voting to spend more than the country raised in taxes on services for them. Let's aline high house prices which are crucifying the young and from which pensioners benefit when they sell their homes at many times what they paid for them.
But that money was to build the hospital you were born in, the school and teachers that educated you, the child benefit your mother used to feed you.
The national debt of over £1.5 trillion that resulted from people voting to spend more than the country raised in taxes on services for them. Let's aline high house prices which are crucifying the young and from which pensioners benefit when they sell their homes at many times what they paid for them.
Right so me selling my house for more than I paid for it crucified the young did it?
Does that include the chap in his early 30s who sold me my house to me at for 75k more then he bought it for, or the young man in this late 20s who purchased my London flat and sold it on 3 years later for nearly 100k more then he paid me for it - which one did I crucify????
As for the national debt again what's that to do with me I didn't vote for ANY party that told me they were going to spend more money than we could afford, I don't remember seeing that on any manifesto.
And you do realise that many pensioners sell their homes to pay for their care, homes that would be and paid for by the tax payer if they didn't have a house to sell
They don't expect to become pensioners. The state retirement age is being raised will be raised further in line with life expectancy. Not life expectancy of the low paid mine you they will need to be increasing lucky to ever see retirement. Even if they are fortunate enough to live to see retirement they don't expect to get much from the state, state pension is being overhauled
"Increased" is the word you're looking for there.
to be a flat pension, no longer contributions based and NI is expected to be merged with income tax.
So pensioners will have to pay higher taxes?
So pensions will be a welfare benefit not a form of insurance people paid for. While we also have work pensions people have to opt out of that for the low paid are going to be very meager. To some young adults the future does not look like it will include getting to be a pensioner, at least not getting to be a pensioner for very long or on very much money.
Do you know how much pensioners are on today? Or what their post retirement life expectancy will be? Your generation will live a lot longer after it's retirement age.
As a 47 year old, suspect my retirement income and benefits will be lower than my parents. Well for starters, I will have to work until I am 68. My Dad got his state pension when was 65.
But we will live more than 3 years longer than our parents.
And I have no idea what things will be like for my 10 year old nephew when he gets too old to work in about 2070. Will there even be a basic state pension or free bus for him ? And a student grant covered by university education, so I left uni with a £200 overdraft. If my nephew wants the same education as me, he's going to need to borrow £20,000.
He can have 10% getting a free university education like when we went or 50% like now paying for themselves.
We didn't change the retirement age, we didn't introduce university fees, we didn't make housing prices rise, we didn't change the law on job protection. It was Governments, both Labour and Tory who did all that, so why should us pensioners be blamed, we don't run the Country .
To be fair us middle aged and older people have to accept a fair degree of responsibility for not building enough houses.
Just putting your imagine a poor pensioner into perspective. Pensioners are the demographic least likely to be in relative poverty according to the IFS "relative pensioner poverty is now lower than the rate for any other major demographic group"
While for the working age without children relative poverty is a according to the IFS "close to its highest level since our consistent time series began in 1961"
I believe the government should provide non contributory benefits fairly on the basis of need. As such I am opposed to the government giving freebees to people who don't need them while not providing things to other people who do need them.
What sort of world do you think you are creating,this country has many benefits that are not means tested, these are not what you call freebies, they are are given by a caring society to help particular sections of our society through certain periods of their lives.
My children have grown up but i still believe strongly in child benefit , i could argue young couples should not be subsidised when they choose to have babies but i don't. i believe a caring society should help them through difficult times.
I could argue the unemployed get far more than they deserve and we should only give them enough to survive on but that would be wrong, they deserve a bit more than just an existence.
Reading some of the freebies students get like free meals and free transport maybe we should do away with all this as well.
Maybe we should charge everyone when they go the doctors or hospital.why not ,dentists were free years ago.
I don't believe we should do any of these things as i believe in a caring society but this is the way our society is going, people actually campaigning to hurt other sections of our society.
I honestly dread to think of what sort of world young people are creating for themselves.
To be fair us middle aged and older people have to accept a fair degree of responsibility for not building enough houses.
To be honest that deserves a thread of it's own but it was not the man in the streets fault .blame the politicians for not allowing enough houses to be built. people screamed for new housing for years.
Just putting your imagine a poor pensioner into perspective. Pensioners are the demographic least likely to be in relative poverty according to the IFS "relative pensioner poverty is now lower than the rate for any other major demographic group"
While for the working age without children relative poverty is a according to the IFS "close to its highest level since our consistent time series began in 1961"
But a lot of pensioners these days grew up in poverty, so they probably know more about what it's like living in poverty than you do
I believe the government should provide non contributory benefits fairly on the basis of need. As such I am opposed to the government giving freebees to people who don't need them while not providing things to other people who do need them.
In that case blame Governments instead of taking it out on the elderly.
Pensioners don't make the rules, pensioners don't decide who gets freebies.
My advice is if you really want to do something about it tell your local MP that you oppose the pensioners in his/her constituency getting freebies It's no use venting your anger on here, it won't get anything done ;-)
I'm guessing you probably have elderly parents/ grandparents, do you begrudge them their freebies ?
We should all have cheap public transport, let's not get where they want us to be blaming the oaps and not the government. They love that.
My example of costs where I live.
1/1.5 mile bus ride £2.10 [there cheapest fair is £1.10 for one stop]
They do no return ticket to make it any cheaper and children over 5 have to pay 2 thirds, £1.40.
"Well walk then", is easy to say, but why do we have public transport when people can not use it?
To be honest that deserves a thread of it's own but it was not the man in the streets fault .blame the politicians for not allowing enough houses to be built. people screamed for new housing for years.
And there were plenty of NIMBYs too.
But from the point of view of the younger generations I think we have to collectively accept responsibility for what we leave them, my opinion is that it's overall a better country than we lived in.
Just checked my local bus company in England with regard to eligibility for bus passes and it definitely says that folk in my area now have to be of state pension age - even offers us the chance to work out when that will be. In my case I'll have to be 64 yrs 5 months and 13 days. But noticed that they state that people in Scotland, Wales and Ireland are eligible to have them at the age of 60. Does anyone know if this is correct?
Just checked my local bus company in England with regard to eligibility for bus passes and it definitely says that folk in my area now have to be of state pension age - even offers us the chance to work out when that will be. In my case I'll have to be 64 yrs 5 months and 13 days. But noticed that they state that people in Scotland, Wales and Ireland are eligible to have them at the age of 60. Does anyone know if this is correct?
Just checked my local bus company in England with regard to eligibility for bus passes and it definitely says that folk in my area now have to be of state pension age - even offers us the chance to work out when that will be. In my case I'll have to be 64 yrs 5 months and 13 days. But noticed that they state that people in Scotland, Wales and Ireland are eligible to have them at the age of 60. Does anyone know if this is correct?
I think it boils down to what council you live under, i have not got a bus pass but it's 62 in my area of the NW, i have a relative who lives 20 miles away in a different county, you only have to be 60 to get your pass.
No idea how this thread got this far as it's a total non-starter.
The Bus pass came as part of a 'package deal sweetener' to keep State pensions down, similar to the Winter Fuel allowance.....so anyone beefing about getting rid of this should do some serious thinking.
No idea how this thread got this far as it's a total non-starter.
The Bus pass came as part of a 'package deal sweetener' to keep State pensions down, similar to the Winter Fuel allowance.....so anyone beefing about getting rid of this should do some serious thinking.
Would you be prepared to pay more taxes?
No.......i thought not.
By package deal sweetner I take it you mean election bribe to pensioners. The bus pass costs the state £1bn a year, about £100 per bus pass. If I was a pensioner I would sooner have the £100 or have travel tokens for those with mobility problems and the very elderly that could be used for bus, train or taxi.
As for the winter fuel allowance since you mention it. If it is genuinely intended to help with heating costs I would replace it with an expansion of the warm homes discount, where money is credited to the person's energy account. So the money is used for what it is intended, and old people are not tempted to spend the money on something else and end up getting too cold. Or tie it in with the cold weather payments system that is linked to temperature where you live. Giving more money to people if it is colder longer where they live. Giving winter fuel allowance to wealth pensioners living abroad makes little sense to me, when the country is supposedly trying to cut welfare spending.
Comments
When you started this thread you said.... 'time to axe pensioners bus passes?'
Maybe you should have said.....'time to axe SOME pensioners bus passes?
Maybe I should if added universal to the question. Oh well.
While for the working age without children relative poverty is a according to the IFS "close to its highest level since our consistent time series began in 1961"
I believe the government should provide non contributory benefits fairly on the basis of need. As such I am opposed to the government giving freebees to people who don't need them while not providing things to other people who do need them.
Yes, we do. That's what makes your claim that today's young are worse off than today's pensioners when they were young so farcical.
And who has created the world where all this is possible?
Most of today's pensioners will have enjoyed a far lower standard of living and equally high unemployment as older workers in the 80s, having already lived through the grim 70s with the three day week.
You think being young unemployed is hard? Try it in your 50's.
But that money was to build the hospital you were born in, the school and teachers that educated you, the child benefit your mother used to feed you.
Right so me selling my house for more than I paid for it crucified the young did it?
Does that include the chap in his early 30s who sold me my house to me at for 75k more then he bought it for, or the young man in this late 20s who purchased my London flat and sold it on 3 years later for nearly 100k more then he paid me for it - which one did I crucify????
As for the national debt again what's that to do with me I didn't vote for ANY party that told me they were going to spend more money than we could afford, I don't remember seeing that on any manifesto.
And you do realise that many pensioners sell their homes to pay for their care, homes that would be and paid for by the tax payer if they didn't have a house to sell
So pensioners will have to pay higher taxes? Do you know how much pensioners are on today? Or what their post retirement life expectancy will be? Your generation will live a lot longer after it's retirement age.
To be fair us middle aged and older people have to accept a fair degree of responsibility for not building enough houses.
That's because you cant remember it - it seems to change with every thread you start
My children have grown up but i still believe strongly in child benefit , i could argue young couples should not be subsidised when they choose to have babies but i don't. i believe a caring society should help them through difficult times.
I could argue the unemployed get far more than they deserve and we should only give them enough to survive on but that would be wrong, they deserve a bit more than just an existence.
Reading some of the freebies students get like free meals and free transport maybe we should do away with all this as well.
Maybe we should charge everyone when they go the doctors or hospital.why not ,dentists were free years ago.
I don't believe we should do any of these things as i believe in a caring society but this is the way our society is going, people actually campaigning to hurt other sections of our society.
I honestly dread to think of what sort of world young people are creating for themselves.
But a lot of pensioners these days grew up in poverty, so they probably know more about what it's like living in poverty than you do
In that case blame Governments instead of taking it out on the elderly.
Pensioners don't make the rules, pensioners don't decide who gets freebies.
My advice is if you really want to do something about it tell your local MP that you oppose the pensioners in his/her constituency getting freebies It's no use venting your anger on here, it won't get anything done ;-)
I'm guessing you probably have elderly parents/ grandparents, do you begrudge them their freebies ?
How do you suggest we should have gone about building houses ?
My example of costs where I live.
1/1.5 mile bus ride £2.10 [there cheapest fair is £1.10 for one stop]
They do no return ticket to make it any cheaper and children over 5 have to pay 2 thirds, £1.40.
"Well walk then", is easy to say, but why do we have public transport when people can not use it?
I'm guessing you probably have elderly parents/ grandparents, do you blame them for the freebies they get ?
And there were plenty of NIMBYs too.
But from the point of view of the younger generations I think we have to collectively accept responsibility for what we leave them, my opinion is that it's overall a better country than we lived in.
Are you also aware that we grew up with the debt of world war 2 hanging over us ?
Life wasn't exactly a bed of roses for us either.
Yes, I'm in Wales and got mine when I was 60.
The Bus pass came as part of a 'package deal sweetener' to keep State pensions down, similar to the Winter Fuel allowance.....so anyone beefing about getting rid of this should do some serious thinking.
Would you be prepared to pay more taxes?
No.......i thought not.
As for the winter fuel allowance since you mention it. If it is genuinely intended to help with heating costs I would replace it with an expansion of the warm homes discount, where money is credited to the person's energy account. So the money is used for what it is intended, and old people are not tempted to spend the money on something else and end up getting too cold. Or tie it in with the cold weather payments system that is linked to temperature where you live. Giving more money to people if it is colder longer where they live. Giving winter fuel allowance to wealth pensioners living abroad makes little sense to me, when the country is supposedly trying to cut welfare spending.