i have already highlighted why i think pellegrini is the right man, try reading above before feverishly going about your reply.
you were wrong about moyes, so why are you so sure about pellegrini is all i am saying, not saying that i am perfect in judging managers either of course.
you ignored my points to turn this into a row, simply no need.
in 1 1/2 seasons he has won premier league and league cup. lost to barca in KO stage, got city to 2nd in current standings and qualified from a very hard group.
so far so good? if greatness is the aim surely managers should be afforded some time to get there?
No, you've pointed out what he's won and claimed he ticks all of the boxes domestically. Mancini wasn't a great manager but with the resources at hand managed to come in and have them challenging for the league and winning it. I've never said Pellegrini is a bad manager, he's a good manager, he's not one of the best though. He'll likely keep City at a very steady level and keeping them consistently challenging for the league, the thing is, that's the absolute bare minimum for City now. Challenging for and winning league title's should be the minimum requirements with the team at hand and funds. He didn't come in needing a complete overhaul, everything was set in place fairly well. So why not reply to what I asked you, point out to me the countless changes he's come in and made? Where has he improved City? They aren't better defensively. City fans themselves have questioned his choices in the midfield over the last season. Are they a great deal better attacking wise? My original point was that Pellegrini hasn't come in and greatly improved this team. City aren't looking to just continue being where they're at, their aim has to be to be the best team in Europe and right now Pellegrini has shown no sign what so ever that he's capable of making that happen.
Knockout round again? Great, but it doesn't prove my point wrong. When City come up against the best they've fell short in Europe and so far I wouldn't be confident under Pellegrini that that'll change. Under him they've met two of the absolute best teams in Bayern and Barcelona. In every single match that actually mattered (so not the one's against Bayern where Bayern had easily qualified from the group already and had zero to play for), they've lost. When Pellegrini takes City close to a Champion's League final while knocking out the absolute best teams in the process, then you'll have an argument to go up against all of the above, until then, my point stands and has plenty of weight to it.
Moyes was a completely different case to this, feel free though to bring it up in every single post, I've already said enough times how wrong I was about him at United. We'll leave it there, seems your attempt to draw me in like certain other times with United fans hasn't worked the way you thought it would, sorry
No, you've pointed out what he's won and claimed he ticks all of the boxes domestically. Mancini wasn't a great manager but with the resources at hand managed to come in and have them challenging for the league and winning it. I've never said Pellegrini is a bad manager, he's a good manager, he's not one of the best though. He'll likely keep City at a very steady level and keeping them consistently challenging for the league, the thing is, that's the absolute bare minimum for City now. Challenging for and winning league title's should be the minimum requirements with the team at hand and funds. He didn't come in needing a complete overhaul, everything was set in place fairly well. So why not reply to what I asked you, point out to me the countless changes he's come in and made? Where has he improved City? They aren't better defensively. City fans themselves have questioned his choices in the midfield over the last season. Are they a great deal better attacking wise? My original point was that Pellegrini hasn't come in and greatly improved this team. City aren't looking to just continue being where they're at, their aim has to be to be the best team in Europe and right now Pellegrini has shown no sign what so ever that he's capable of making that happen.
Knockout round again? Great, but it doesn't prove my point wrong. When City come up against the best they've fell short in Europe and so far I wouldn't be confident under Pellegrini that that'll change. Under him they've met two of the absolute best teams in Bayern and Barcelona. In every single match that actually mattered (so not the one's against Bayern where Bayern had easily qualified from the group already and had zero to play for), they've lost. When Pellegrini takes City close to a Champion's League final while knocking out the absolute best teams in the process, then you'll have an argument to go up against all of the above, until then, my point stands and has plenty of weight to it.
Moyes was a completely different case to this, feel free though to bring it up in every single post, I've already said enough times how wrong I was about him at United. We'll leave it there, seems your attempt to draw me in like certain other times with United fans hasn't worked the way you thought it would, sorry
draw you in? is this a film to you? a battle of good vs evil???? please chill a little
the reason i bring up moyes i explained in the same post. man utd are a HUGE club i am sure you will agree, you were convinced moyes was the right man to take you forward and make you a success. thats fine, no issue with that at all.
my point was that in pellegrini you have a manager who has come in and won the title back after a poor final season for mancini aswell as winning a cup competition. yet thats not enough to convince you hes the right man. it just seems to me a unbalanced view of both managers.
they played some great stuff last year, better than mancini era for me(although roberto did have a period where they were truly awesome too) but consistently i find city under pellegrini a joy to watch. However when they do have bad patches he hasnt fallen apart, he doesn't kick off with press or players,doesnt show any signs of stress and he gets them back on track.
people talk of liverpool throwing it away but if city didnt finish so strong it would not have mattered, he picked them up from away defeat at anfield and that run got them the title.
i think their is a learning curve to europe and also believe city had alot of bad luck with a poor uefea seeding system that is thankful being changed. some true group of deaths and this years was also very tough, but they made it. yes they qualified second but behind arguably the best club in the world,beat them too, no mean feat. if they get a hard draw in next round then it could be over come feb but i dont think it will show hes not great because they could go on to win it the year after with him in my opinion. thats not to say they have no chance vs europes elite this season.
i hope the above illistrates 1) why i mentioned your belief in moyes and 2) why i think pellegrini is right man for city.
For me, Pellegrini has done a very decent job to date. Of course one can always point to and disagee with some things, but to my mind for what he has done so far and the football that his City team have often produced ( yes, ideally more often ), no way should this man currently be at all under pressure.
For me, Pellegrini has done a very decent job to date. Of course one can always point to and disagee with some things, but to my mind for what he has done so far and the football that his City team have often produced ( yes, ideally more often ), no way should this man currently be at all under pressure.
thank you and i agree its an interesting discussion, its a shame it got heated but we got some good points out in the end.
Statistically, this is the most likely draw, listed in order of most likely to happen.
Chelsea vs Bayern Leverkusen
Bayern Munich vs Arsenal
Dortmund vs Man City
Barcelona vs Schalke
Athletico Madrid vs PSG
Porto vs Basel
Juventus vs Monaco
The last 2 ties have an exactly equal chance, so could just as easily be Porto vs Monaco and Juventus v Basel. But yeah, statistically, this is the most likely draw.
I'd rather they chucked them all in a pot and drew them out, doesn't matter if they were in the same group, or from the same country, but oh well.
Statistically, this is the most likely draw, listed in order of most likely to happen.
Chelsea vs Bayern Leverkusen
Bayern Munich vs Arsenal
Dortmund vs Man City
Barcelona vs Schalke
Athletico Madrid vs PSG
Porto vs Basel
Juventus vs Monaco
The last 2 ties have an exactly equal chance, so could just as easily be Porto vs Monaco and Juventus v Basel. But yeah, statistically, this is the most likely draw.
I'd rather they chucked them all in a pot and drew them out, doesn't matter if they were in the same group, or from the same country, but oh well.
Interesting to know how you got that "statistically".
Some of it initially seems a bit counterintuitive with such as single country teams Porto and Basel down to face each other rather than teams like from Germany and England that have country restrictions, who seem to all be seen as pretty much most likely to face each other.
Yes, probably high on the list would be a Germany vs England clash, but I wouldn't have imagined two more as the chances become increasingly less. Not to say, it couldn't happen.
But, I haven't the time nor inclination for now to really explore the probabilities.
There's a 28% chance (rounding up) of Chelsea playing Leverkusen which is the most likely tie to be drawn.
It's pretty complex (I study statistics) but all to do with the clubs that can play each other and can't.
Of course if the first tie out isn't one of these, then it can alter the entire thing so it really is speculative but mathematically if you did he draw a million times these are the ties that would come out most.
There's a 28% chance (rounding up) of Chelsea playing Leverkusen which is the most likely tie to be drawn.
It's pretty complex (I study statistics) but all to do with the clubs that can play each other and can't.
Of course if the first tie out isn't one of these, then it can alter the entire thing so it really is speculative but mathematically if you did he draw a million times these are the ties that would come out most.
I'm late to the party, as the figure skating season has begun and I now have to divide my time (and work and do family stuff on the side ). I just wanted to say that I think Pellegrini is a very good manager. He never panics even when his team are in big trouble or on a losing steak and always managers to get them back winning again. They are solid at the back and play decent-looking football coupled with Aguero's individual brilliance. City's poor form in Europe has always been a mystery to me, but i don't think Pellegrini is entirely to blame for that. The players appeared to have some mental block and fear of good European teams. This may be on the mend though if Aguero comes back to full fitness. At the moment ManCity look to be in a very strong position domestically and might go further than usual in the Champions league, so I can't see why people would criticise Pellegrini.
Same old same old yet again, I think 3 of those ties were the same last year coupled with us playing Bayern & Moscow again means the Roma games are the only difference this year!
no excuses for either Arsenal or Juventus if they don't make it through.
Chelsea will beat PSG.
City have the hardest draw of the English clubs, although Barcelona won't be exactly delighted to be playing them.
Fully expect Arsenal to win but both Chelsea and Man City have a pretty tough draw.
Chelsea only narrowly managed to beat PSG last season via the away goal rule but Chelsea do have a much better squad this season and PSG have David Luiz in defence which is another added bonus for Chelsea.
Barca beat Man City pretty comfortably last season, Man City did have a player sent off from each leg so if they can keep 11 players on the pitch and Aguero fully fit, they could have a chance.
Comments
No, you've pointed out what he's won and claimed he ticks all of the boxes domestically. Mancini wasn't a great manager but with the resources at hand managed to come in and have them challenging for the league and winning it. I've never said Pellegrini is a bad manager, he's a good manager, he's not one of the best though. He'll likely keep City at a very steady level and keeping them consistently challenging for the league, the thing is, that's the absolute bare minimum for City now. Challenging for and winning league title's should be the minimum requirements with the team at hand and funds. He didn't come in needing a complete overhaul, everything was set in place fairly well. So why not reply to what I asked you, point out to me the countless changes he's come in and made? Where has he improved City? They aren't better defensively. City fans themselves have questioned his choices in the midfield over the last season. Are they a great deal better attacking wise? My original point was that Pellegrini hasn't come in and greatly improved this team. City aren't looking to just continue being where they're at, their aim has to be to be the best team in Europe and right now Pellegrini has shown no sign what so ever that he's capable of making that happen.
Knockout round again? Great, but it doesn't prove my point wrong. When City come up against the best they've fell short in Europe and so far I wouldn't be confident under Pellegrini that that'll change. Under him they've met two of the absolute best teams in Bayern and Barcelona. In every single match that actually mattered (so not the one's against Bayern where Bayern had easily qualified from the group already and had zero to play for), they've lost. When Pellegrini takes City close to a Champion's League final while knocking out the absolute best teams in the process, then you'll have an argument to go up against all of the above, until then, my point stands and has plenty of weight to it.
Moyes was a completely different case to this, feel free though to bring it up in every single post, I've already said enough times how wrong I was about him at United. We'll leave it there, seems your attempt to draw me in like certain other times with United fans hasn't worked the way you thought it would, sorry
draw you in? is this a film to you? a battle of good vs evil???? please chill a little
the reason i bring up moyes i explained in the same post. man utd are a HUGE club i am sure you will agree, you were convinced moyes was the right man to take you forward and make you a success. thats fine, no issue with that at all.
my point was that in pellegrini you have a manager who has come in and won the title back after a poor final season for mancini aswell as winning a cup competition. yet thats not enough to convince you hes the right man. it just seems to me a unbalanced view of both managers.
they played some great stuff last year, better than mancini era for me(although roberto did have a period where they were truly awesome too) but consistently i find city under pellegrini a joy to watch. However when they do have bad patches he hasnt fallen apart, he doesn't kick off with press or players,doesnt show any signs of stress and he gets them back on track.
people talk of liverpool throwing it away but if city didnt finish so strong it would not have mattered, he picked them up from away defeat at anfield and that run got them the title.
i think their is a learning curve to europe and also believe city had alot of bad luck with a poor uefea seeding system that is thankful being changed. some true group of deaths and this years was also very tough, but they made it. yes they qualified second but behind arguably the best club in the world,beat them too, no mean feat. if they get a hard draw in next round then it could be over come feb but i dont think it will show hes not great because they could go on to win it the year after with him in my opinion. thats not to say they have no chance vs europes elite this season.
i hope the above illistrates 1) why i mentioned your belief in moyes and 2) why i think pellegrini is right man for city.
Typical whedon right there.
For me, Pellegrini has done a very decent job to date. Of course one can always point to and disagee with some things, but to my mind for what he has done so far and the football that his City team have often produced ( yes, ideally more often ), no way should this man currently be at all under pressure.
thank you and i agree its an interesting discussion, its a shame it got heated but we got some good points out in the end.
Chelsea vs Bayern Leverkusen
Bayern Munich vs Arsenal
Dortmund vs Man City
Barcelona vs Schalke
Athletico Madrid vs PSG
Porto vs Basel
Juventus vs Monaco
The last 2 ties have an exactly equal chance, so could just as easily be Porto vs Monaco and Juventus v Basel. But yeah, statistically, this is the most likely draw.
I'd rather they chucked them all in a pot and drew them out, doesn't matter if they were in the same group, or from the same country, but oh well.
Arsenal could get Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, AS Monaco, Bayern Munich, FC Porto or Barcelona.
Manchester City could get Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, AS Monaco, Borussia Dortmund, FC Porto or Barcelona.
Interesting to know how you got that "statistically".
Some of it initially seems a bit counterintuitive with such as single country teams Porto and Basel down to face each other rather than teams like from Germany and England that have country restrictions, who seem to all be seen as pretty much most likely to face each other.
Yes, probably high on the list would be a Germany vs England clash, but I wouldn't have imagined two more as the chances become increasingly less. Not to say, it couldn't happen.
But, I haven't the time nor inclination for now to really explore the probabilities.
Yeah, I was a little confused by that. Also can't work out why two teams have been left out of the process.
It's pretty complex (I study statistics) but all to do with the clubs that can play each other and can't.
Of course if the first tie out isn't one of these, then it can alter the entire thing so it really is speculative but mathematically if you did he draw a million times these are the ties that would come out most.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4ly5MCCcAAj1en.png
Ah well there you go then :-)
Backs up what I was getting at although there saying 29% chance of Chelsea v Leverkusen so I must have got that slightly wrong.
Good effort nonetheless:)
Chelsea could get Juventus, FC Basel, Bayer Leverkusen, Shakhtar Donetsk or PSG.
Group winners Chelsea cannot draw Group runners-ups Arsenal or Man City.
Group runners-up Bayer Leverkusen cannot draw Group winners Bayern or Dortmond.
Group runners-up Juventus, FC Basel, PSG and Shakhtar Donetsk can draw any of the group winners.
So probability wise it makes it slightly more likely Chelsea and Bayer Leverkusen could meet.
Would be extremely suprised if Arsenal don't progress. Monaco must be the weakest side left in the comp.
Chelsea will beat PSG.
City have the hardest draw of the English clubs, although Barcelona won't be exactly delighted to be playing them.
Chelsea only narrowly managed to beat PSG last season via the away goal rule but Chelsea do have a much better squad this season and PSG have David Luiz in defence which is another added bonus for Chelsea.
Barca beat Man City pretty comfortably last season, Man City did have a player sent off from each leg so if they can keep 11 players on the pitch and Aguero fully fit, they could have a chance.
Man citeh will go out thanks to messi and neymar
Chelsea go through on away goals
city vs barca and psg vs chelsea are 50/50s for me.
porto to beat basle
madrid to beat shalke
munich to beat shakter
juventus to beat dortmund
atletico to beat levurkusen