It has been stated by those in the media and telecoms industries and if everybody that listens to Chris Evans at Breakfast on Radio 2 were to do so online/internet PC then then entire UK internet streaming system would collapse. That, unfortunately does not even include Today listeners on R4. Even The Archers audience all online at lunchtime on R4 would see no internet service anywhere.
'Broadcasting over the airwaves' will still be the case for the best part of this century.
But where have you seen any serious analyst suggest that the only way to listen to the radio in the future will be the internet? It will be a mix of terrestrial and digital platforms, the terrestrial ones will include both analogue and digital, unless DRM+, or similar technology, begins to be used.
Further this assumes everyone listens to the radio on their own. They don't so the argument becomes nonsensical.
But where have you seen any serious analyst suggest that the only way to listen to the radio in the future will be the internet?.
Only at seminars when somebody tries to make the point that all listening in the future will be via the internet is some shape or device.
This is then shouted down by the broadcaster or transmitter provider saying that the UK system and elsewhere just can't and will never cope with capacity it would need for everyone to listen to the 8am news bulletin on R4 that currently does so on a radio.
For example, in London a single FM frequency can reach some 10m people; the internet just can't compete with 'broadcasting on the air'.
The DRDB and its successor (Lisa Kerr was the first one to mention it I think) are the ones who throw out the the internet would collapse if everyone listened online theory. This is obviously being done to try and convince people that the future can't be delivered entirely by the net and that they and DAB still have a part to play. However if the same sound quality that DAB offers was used for internet listening then this might lessen the chances of an overload (if it is indeed likely) from happening. Also they normally fail to take into account advances in the UK internet infrastructure, BT are making headway with getting fibre to more & more places. As the available bandwidth available increases the amount of potential listeners (before meltdown) increases. If big TV broadcasters such as the BBC/ITV/C4 etc and Radio groups Absolute, Bauer etc. all fed their stations directly to the biggest ISPs then this would help lessen the burden on the internet.
It is interesting to hear people say that internet listening is tiny, because it is actually easier to monetise a listener on the web than it is on the traditional broadcast radio. Classic FM for example have their dedicated radio players where you can choose what you want to listen to. These are all sponsored and when I left the company were paying for themselves.
Some really interesting points and discussions in this thread.
One of the reasons I started it was because, as I said, I was genuinely surprised by the low online listening figure in the last Rajar.
Not so long ago we were all urged to spend megabucks on sexy all singing-all dancing station websites, cram them with as much content as possible, have a super-dooper streaming service, and treat online as important as on air, adding new features and updating stuff daily.
Was that the wrong advice after all? Have we all wasted lots of time and money on fancy websites that don't really matter? Part of me thinks that we have.
I know from our stations that Facebook has taken over much of our online existence.
When listeners want to interact with us, they nearly always now go to Facebook not our own sites.
Similarly, we now always put important news or station activities or contesting mechanics on Facebook as well as on our own sites. The feedback is great.
Also they normally fail to take into account advances in the UK internet infrastructure, BT are making headway with getting fibre to more & more places. As the available bandwidth available increases the amount of potential listeners (before meltdown) increases. If big TV broadcasters such as the BBC/ITV/C4 etc and Radio groups Absolute, Bauer etc. all fed their stations directly to the biggest ISPs then this would help lessen the burden on the internet.
What we do now – Unicast
What we do now is known as Unicast. If a listener wishes to listen to, for example, Radio 3 – their computer informs our servers that they'd like to listen we then create a one-to-one connection with their computer to deliver the audio. If more than one person requests Radio 3 from the same network, our servers and the networks used have to support a unique stream for each person. This increases bandwidth requirements for the networks and the resulting bandwidth bottleneck causes a number of problems including lower audio quality, streams that fail or buffering problems.
Basically, it's not good for you or the network owners (the ISPs).
What we want to do – Multicast
In the Multicast world, each listener's computer notifies our server they wish to listen and our server tells their computer to look out for data with an identifier unique to Radio 3, to continue our example. In turn all listeners' computers look out for the same identifier and the network conspires to deliver the same data to everyone. This results in improved bandwidth throughput, and the ability for the listener to receive higher quality audio.
Therefore the multicast content will mean smaller servers and less chance of overloading the internet! but looks like it might be the TV channels that will initally benefit rather than radio!
Hopefully radio will also use the content networks and the UKradioplayer will be built into Youview boxes, maybe also PCs, Macs and internet radio sets will also have mulicast access.
Why should people who want to listen to R2 and R1 and maybe R4 which must account for the bulk of listening get it on-line when it is available on a simple highly portable receiver or car radio?
Why should people who want to listen to R2 and R1 and maybe R4 which must account for the bulk of listening get it on-line when it is available on a simple highly portable receiver or car radio?
Often there is more than on radio on in a house, there is no problem if they are all on DAB or all on VHF FM but not if they are internet radios or PCs though I can't imagine anyone taking a laptop into the kitchen or bathroom to listen to the radio!.
taking a laptop into the kitchen or bathroom to listen to the radio
Was thinking of buying a Pure One Flow with battery pack for that purpose - bathroom listening to non-UK music stations. Unimpressed by its looks close-up though. So if I'm typical, I've got the awareness but I'm not ready to invest and the receiver market isn't ready to satisfy. And yes, my aged Sony Shower Radio does the FM / AM job well enough.
I don't listen online much. Most stations don't link to a stream that loads in Windows Media Player, so when I do listen online, I use a website like Radio Feeds.
If I listen online, I usually listen to community stations or international stations that are or were on shortwave. I also listen to free online sports commentaries too. I don't enjoy listening to any commercial stations I can't get on my DAB.
Most of my online listening is to Spotify, but that's not a radio station.
As far as web site content is concerned, I mostly listen online to stations which have an alternative/indie/eclectic format and the most important online content is a list of what songs were played and at what time. So if I hear a good song whilst I'm walking to Sainsbury's I can make a note of the time and look it up when I get home.
Of course this feature is far less important when a station has a smaller playlist made up of familiar songs. But for me that "what song was that?" link is essential because the phone and the wi-fi radio don't have a "now playing" display.
Therefore the multicast content will mean smaller servers and less chance of overloading the internet! but looks like it might be the TV channels that will initally benefit rather than radio!
Hopefully radio will also use the content networks and the UKradioplayer will be built into Youview boxes, maybe also PCs, Macs and internet radio sets will also have mulicast access.
That's what I was thinking about but I was hoping it would extend to Radio as well. Thinking about it though this will also help lessen the burden on the net despite it only being TV that is distributed.
I don't listen online much. Most stations don't link to a stream that loads in Windows Media Player, so when I do listen online, I use a website like Radio Feeds.
If I listen online, I usually listen to community stations or international stations that are or were on shortwave. I also listen to free online sports commentaries too. I don't enjoy listening to any commercial stations I can't get on my DAB.
Most of my online listening is to Spotify, but that's not a radio station.
I have also looked at the Pure One Flow and reached the same conclusion. It looks a bit cheap and chatty compared to the others in the Pure range. Have a look on Amazon and you will find the superior Evoke Flow selling for just a tenner more. I have a four year old BT Internet radio that I plan to replace with the Evoke Flow soon.
Was thinking of buying a Pure One Flow with battery pack for that purpose - bathroom listening to non-UK music stations. Unimpressed by its looks close-up though. So if I'm typical, I've got the awareness but I'm not ready to invest and the receiver market isn't ready to satisfy. And yes, my aged Sony Shower Radio does the FM / AM job well enough.
I have also looked at the Pure One Flow and reached the same conclusion. It looks a bit cheap and chatty compared to the others in the Pure range. Have a look on Amazon and you will find the superior Evoke Flow selling for just a tenner more. I have a four year old BT Internet radio that I plan to replace with the Evoke Flow soon.
I have also looked at the Pure One Flow and reached the same conclusion. It looks a bit cheap and chatty compared to the others in the Pure range. Have a look on Amazon and you will find the superior Evoke Flow selling for just a tenner more. I have a four year old BT Internet radio that I plan to replace with the Evoke Flow soon.
The Pure Evoke Flow is a bit of a PITA to switch on when on battery only, it is quicker usually to take through to power supply, plug in the power lead, switch on, disconnect and take wherever you want to use it.
That's what I was thinking about but I was hoping it would extend to Radio as well. Thinking about it though this will also help lessen the burden on the net despite it only being TV that is distributed.
There is now a report today that BT will open up it's content network to other uses than BT Vision/Youview (radio?) and allow other ISPs access.
Welcomed by some, but others see it as a possible end to net neutrality! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12112389
British Telecom will change the bulk of its broadband network to use multicast routers as from next year – this will mean that full IPTV services, using quality of service protocols, could then be launched for the first time on the BT network.
BT has always said that it didn't see the point of building out its network with multicast routers, which would have meant replacing its entire network, because of the strength of Freeview in the UK, the free-to-air DVB-T broadcast network. This is why it has no IPTV linear TV service, and instead relies on internet delivered VoD, offering mostly movies and catch up on its BT Vision service. BT Vision devices also have DVB-T tuners so they can receive Freeview on the same device.
But at the Connected TV Summit in London last week Steve White, head of information systems and technology for IPTV at BT, said that the BT network was being upgraded to multicast to allow full IPTV. When asked why, White said: "It's too expensive renting DVB-T multiplex space to deliver Sky Sports to BT Vision customers, so we want to send it multicast."
Hopefully will allow multicast radio by IP as well!
Comments
But where have you seen any serious analyst suggest that the only way to listen to the radio in the future will be the internet? It will be a mix of terrestrial and digital platforms, the terrestrial ones will include both analogue and digital, unless DRM+, or similar technology, begins to be used.
Further this assumes everyone listens to the radio on their own. They don't so the argument becomes nonsensical.
Only at seminars when somebody tries to make the point that all listening in the future will be via the internet is some shape or device.
This is then shouted down by the broadcaster or transmitter provider saying that the UK system and elsewhere just can't and will never cope with capacity it would need for everyone to listen to the 8am news bulletin on R4 that currently does so on a radio.
For example, in London a single FM frequency can reach some 10m people; the internet just can't compete with 'broadcasting on the air'.
It is interesting to hear people say that internet listening is tiny, because it is actually easier to monetise a listener on the web than it is on the traditional broadcast radio. Classic FM for example have their dedicated radio players where you can choose what you want to listen to. These are all sponsored and when I left the company were paying for themselves.
One of the reasons I started it was because, as I said, I was genuinely surprised by the low online listening figure in the last Rajar.
Not so long ago we were all urged to spend megabucks on sexy all singing-all dancing station websites, cram them with as much content as possible, have a super-dooper streaming service, and treat online as important as on air, adding new features and updating stuff daily.
Was that the wrong advice after all? Have we all wasted lots of time and money on fancy websites that don't really matter? Part of me thinks that we have.
I know from our stations that Facebook has taken over much of our online existence.
When listeners want to interact with us, they nearly always now go to Facebook not our own sites.
Similarly, we now always put important news or station activities or contesting mechanics on Facebook as well as on our own sites. The feedback is great.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/multicast/radio/ BT wholesale (with several other ISPs) and Talktalk/AOL are setting up seperate broadcast content delivery networks for Youview which look like they will have the capacity for multicast rather than single unicast!
Virgin media also seem to be doing simular IP multicast upgrades to their cable network!
http://www.tvbeurope.com/main-content/full/hybrid-multicast-unicast-delivery;jsessionid=1B3B728026808E879394AE5B85308B29
Therefore the multicast content will mean smaller servers and less chance of overloading the internet! but looks like it might be the TV channels that will initally benefit rather than radio!
Hopefully radio will also use the content networks and the UKradioplayer will be built into Youview boxes, maybe also PCs, Macs and internet radio sets will also have mulicast access.
Often there is more than on radio on in a house, there is no problem if they are all on DAB or all on VHF FM but not if they are internet radios or PCs though I can't imagine anyone taking a laptop into the kitchen or bathroom to listen to the radio!.
Was thinking of buying a Pure One Flow with battery pack for that purpose - bathroom listening to non-UK music stations. Unimpressed by its looks close-up though. So if I'm typical, I've got the awareness but I'm not ready to invest and the receiver market isn't ready to satisfy. And yes, my aged Sony Shower Radio does the FM / AM job well enough.
If I listen online, I usually listen to community stations or international stations that are or were on shortwave. I also listen to free online sports commentaries too. I don't enjoy listening to any commercial stations I can't get on my DAB.
Most of my online listening is to Spotify, but that's not a radio station.
Of course this feature is far less important when a station has a smaller playlist made up of familiar songs. But for me that "what song was that?" link is essential because the phone and the wi-fi radio don't have a "now playing" display.
That's what I was thinking about but I was hoping it would extend to Radio as well. Thinking about it though this will also help lessen the burden on the net despite it only being TV that is distributed.
I have also looked at the Pure One Flow and reached the same conclusion. It looks a bit cheap and chatty compared to the others in the Pure range. Have a look on Amazon and you will find the superior Evoke Flow selling for just a tenner more. I have a four year old BT Internet radio that I plan to replace with the Evoke Flow soon.
I have also looked at the Pure One Flow and reached the same conclusion. It looks a bit cheap and chatty compared to the others in the Pure range. Have a look on Amazon and you will find the superior Evoke Flow selling for just a tenner more. I have a four year old BT Internet radio that I plan to replace with the Evoke Flow soon.
The Pure Evoke Flow is a bit of a PITA to switch on when on battery only, it is quicker usually to take through to power supply, plug in the power lead, switch on, disconnect and take wherever you want to use it.
Welcomed by some, but others see it as a possible end to net neutrality!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12112389