so if the Tardis can rescue the doctor without anyone piloting it....

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  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Dave-H wrote: »
    Those abilities were a by-product of her mind having been temporarily absorbed into the computer system, which was made quite clear at the time.
    I don't think there's any reason to think that she still has those abilities now.
    :)

    Of course she's still got them. How else is she going to hack the Dalek network as Oswin? :D
  • Evil GeniusEvil Genius Posts: 8,762
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    I suspect that's what it did at the pivotal moment in the Time War.With the mental bond between pilot and TARDIS having been unbroken for around 900 years, it would be pretty strong.

    She couldn't allow the Doctor to die. She materialised around him at the crucial moment The Moment was triggered, dematerialised and through sheer force of will, broke the time lock, almost destroying herself in the process.

    I'm sure I read that somewhere a long time ago, or is it my supposition?

    Actually that started to bug me last night.

    So help me out here people? Have I read that somewhere at some point in the past or has that come from somewhere within the twisted, diseased confines of what I call my mind?

    I'd like to be able to sleep again...
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Actually that started to bug me last night.

    So help me out here people? Have I read that somewhere at some point in the past or has that come from somewhere within the twisted, diseased confines of what I call my mind?

    I'd like to be able to sleep again...

    It's not mentioned here:

    http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Last_Great_Time_War
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    Thrombin wrote: »
    Of course she's still got them. How else is she going to hack the Dalek network as Oswin? :D


    But she didn't hack the Dalek Network, she could only do what she did because she was already part of the Dalek network.

    Actually that started to bug me last night.

    So help me out here people? Have I read that somewhere at some point in the past or has that come from somewhere within the twisted, diseased confines of what I call my mind?

    I'd like to be able to sleep again...


    Unless you read it in some Fanfiction somewhere I'm pretty sure you made it up :D
  • TEDRTEDR Posts: 3,413
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    Corwin wrote: »
    But she didn't hack the Dalek Network, she could only do what she did because she was already part of the Dalek network.

    I reckon she hacked it, at the very least using a privilege escalation attack. Thinking back I'm now a little unclear on why network attacks actually wipe Dalek's memories since that seems like a huge security vulnerability, but that's only if I forget to apply the rule against thinking about it. It feels like you'd never get an actual renegade Dalek faction if as soon as one is a little annoyed by Davros-or-whomever it can just make everyone else immediately forget who Davros is.

    So, yes, I reckon some sort of hacking was involved. For the sake of continuity.
  • DiscoPDiscoP Posts: 5,920
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    I suspect that's what it did at the pivotal moment in the Time War.With the mental bond between pilot and TARDIS having been unbroken for around 900 years, it would be pretty strong.

    She couldn't allow the Doctor to die. She materialised around him at the crucial moment The Moment was triggered, dematerialised and through sheer force of will, broke the time lock, almost destroying herself in the process.

    I'm sure I read that somewhere a long time ago, or is it my supposition?

    If I am wrong and it is the latter, then at least it sounds good, eh?
    Actually that started to bug me last night.

    So help me out here people? Have I read that somewhere at some point in the past or has that come from somewhere within the twisted, diseased confines of what I call my mind?

    I'd like to be able to sleep again...

    I like the sound of that though. If I were you I wouldn't admit that you made it up, just pass it off as fact. Seems to happen a lot round these parts :)
  • WonderWorldWonderWorld Posts: 181
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    Piipp
    Also, if the TARDIS can just create a hologram and talk to the companion, what was the point of 'The Doctor's Wife'? She might aswell just create a hologram everytime to communicate with the Doctor. Or did I get this bit of the episode wrong? :l

    CAMERA OBSCURA
    Having The Tardis go and save The Doctor in such a way does kind of set up a precedent. From now on whenever The Doctor is in peril in future episodes will we now see The Tardis shoot off and save the day?

    Things like this do tend to ask the question 'Well if it did it then why doesn't it do it again?'

    The TARDIS has always been able to take off by herself as long as someone is onboard such as in the The Doctor's Daughter and in Utopia when the TARDIS tried to shake jack off. The TARDIS is able to take off on her own if the Doctor preprograms it to and can without someone. In The Doctor's Wife the Doctor told TARDIS he was irritated that she would not always go where he wanted to. In response she said no but I always took you were you needed to go. Not always! During the 5th Doctor when he trying to get Tegan to Heathrow Airport the TARDIS went some were else. This was to irritate him. For some reason the TARDIS was upset with the Doctor and decided to keep Tegan around because she annoyed him. The Doctor started to clean the TARDIS so she would let him take Tegan back. In The Doctor's Wife the Doctor said it would be nice if the TARDIS could talk all the time even in the box. The hologram seems the closest he can get, but is still limited. The TARDIS wouldn’t go and get him every time the Doctor likes to work things out and she knows it like in The Doctor's Wife she could have told him how to get away but let him think. But under absolute circumstances she would go and rescue him as long someone onboard, unless it would interfere with time like in The Wedding of River Song.
    Dave-H
    Erm, I think it's called character development, and it applies even to the TARDIS!
    If the TARDIS was never allowed to be seen doing something that it had never done before, its (her) role in the programme would never change or develop.

    Agreed:cool:
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Corwin wrote: »
    But she didn't hack the Dalek Network, she could only do what she did because she was already part of the Dalek network.
    Partly - she was already very aware of and confident in her hacking skills, and was convinced she had done it by herself. But the only reason she was actually successful is because she had that direct connection. After all, not even the Daleks in the Asylum were able to break into the Asylum's security systems - and they were the ones who put her in there.
  • ThrombinThrombin Posts: 9,416
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    Partly - she was already very aware of and confident in her hacking skills, and was convinced she had done it by herself. But the only reason she was actually successful is because she had that direct connection. After all, not even the Daleks in the Asylum were able to break into the Asylum's security systems - and they were the ones who put her in there.

    Of course we don't know if our Clara will become Oswin or whether it's just an alternate Oswin but I'm pretty sure she still has the hacking skills because I don't see any point at which they would have been removed.

    Originally they uploaded Clara with the skills so that she could be useful within the computer network. She got downloaded by the Doctor, still with the skills, and the Doctor said that they would be unhappy about that and try to get them back.

    Then she got uploaded again. At this point they wouldn't have removed the skills because she is now a part of the network and the original reason for giving them to her still exists.

    Then everyone got downloaded back to their bodies but there was no command to delete any additional skill sets during that process. It was an emergency download of everyone. Unless the download process automates the removal of the added skills then I don't see why they would have been removed and, since they weren't removed when the Doctor first downloaded Clara I don't think any automated removal function can have been in place.
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
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    WonderWorld

    The TARDIS has always been able to take off by herself as long as someone is onboard such as in the The Doctor's Daughter and in Utopia when the TARDIS tried to shake jack off.

    I can't recall The Doctors Daughter if it took off on it's own (without pre programming and the likes) but it didn't do it in Utopia. The Doctor takes off after seeing Jack, The Master pilots it later on (The Doctor just locked the landing coordinates). So yes, trying to shake Jack off was the Tardis but it didn't take off on its own.
    WonderWorld
    The TARDIS is able to take off on her own if the Doctor preprograms it to and can without someone. In The Doctor's Wife the Doctor told TARDIS he was irritated that she would not always go where he wanted to. In response she said no but I always took you were you needed to go. Not always! During the 5th Doctor when he trying to get Tegan to Heathrow Airport the TARDIS went some were else. This was to irritate him. For some reason the TARDIS was upset with the Doctor and decided to keep Tegan around because she annoyed him. The Doctor started to clean the TARDIS so she would let him take Tegan back. In The Doctor's Wife the Doctor said it would be nice if the TARDIS could talk all the time even in the box. The hologram seems the closest he can get, but is still limited.

    Yes, they are quirks of The Tardis. Even as a kid I was never under any impression other than The Tardis takes The Doctor where trouble is, regardless of if he wanted to go or not. It does after all know everything about time, what has happened and what will happen.

    So in The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit it knew exactly where to land in order to end up at precisely the right place to save The Doctor. I don't think for a second that The Doctor accidentally 'bumps' into the Tardis whilst fleeing a doomed situation. But that's just my speculation.:) And it makes that moment even more magical seeing it like that.


    But none of that is taking off on it's own to go and save The Doctor, who lets face it has been in far more dire situations in his time than being in a forest chased by a horny love monster. :D



    Now if it had been Clara flying The Tardis as part of her new gained intellect then surely we would have seen her at least flicking a few switches, pulling a few levers, in order to let the viewer see it is the companion rescuing the Doctor, to cheer her on, you know a bit of character building. (loving The Tardis not liking Clara by the way)

    Plus having The Tardis up sticks and rescue the Doc kind off neglects the original need for the 'portals' in the episode, could have saved a lot of hassle.


    But if the show is now establishing that The Tardis can take off and go save The Doc, hopefully we should be seeing it as a solution a lot more in the future.:)
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
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    Hestia wrote: »
    There's quite a lot going on cribbed from the Sixties, isn't there? The invisible Tardis is straight out of "The Invasion".

    Ahhh that rings a bell. Been a while since I've seen 'The Invasion'. Seem to recall it was parked in a field, first episode ???

    Will have to dig it out and watch it again this weekend, thought the animation worked really well.
  • Dave-HDave-H Posts: 9,926
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    Thrombin wrote: »
    Of course she's still got them. How else is she going to hack the Dalek network as Oswin? :D
    Corwin wrote: »
    But she didn't hack the Dalek Network, she could only do what she did because she was already part of the Dalek network.
    Thrombin wrote: »
    Of course we don't know if our Clara will become Oswin or whether it's just an alternate Oswin but I'm pretty sure she still has the hacking skills because I don't see any point at which they would have been removed.
    Originally they uploaded Clara with the skills so that she could be useful within the computer network. She got downloaded by the Doctor, still with the skills, and the Doctor said that they would be unhappy about that and try to get them back.
    Then she got uploaded again. At this point they wouldn't have removed the skills because she is now a part of the network and the original reason for giving them to her still exists.
    Then everyone got downloaded back to their bodies but there was no command to delete any additional skill sets during that process. It was an emergency download of everyone. Unless the download process automates the removal of the added skills then I don't see why they would have been removed and, since they weren't removed when the Doctor first downloaded Clara I don't think any automated removal function can have been in place.
    Fair comments all, but of course we don't know whether the Clara we saw in Asylum of the Daleks is even the same person who was in The Bells of Saint John.
    I think we'll need to wait and see if Clara's abilities with computers are carried through to other stories, there's been no sign of it yet really in the last three, but of course there were no modern Earth computers in those stories!
    :)
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    Now if it had been Clara flying The Tardis as part of her new gained intellect then surely we would have seen her at least flicking a few switches, pulling a few levers, in order to let the viewer see it is the companion rescuing the Doctor, to cheer her on, you know a bit of character building. (loving The Tardis not liking Clara by the way)
    But the aim of the scene was not to show Clara saving the Doctor by piloting the TARDIS, regardless of whether or not that was what actually happened. Showing her pressing the buttons and pulling levers would have made it look exactly like that.

    The intention of the scene was for the TARDIS and Clara to have differences, and then put them aside - whatever they might be - and work together. The nuts and bolts of the hows and whys would have taken away from that.
  • Dalekbuster523Dalekbuster523 Posts: 4,596
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    Because the Doctor used his sonic screwdriver to only allow the TARDIS to make one more trip, disabling the controls so Rose couldn't pilot it back to him. This meant Rose's only option was to look into the heart of the TARDIS in order to get back to him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 29
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    Clara had to be inside - doesn't the control room shut down if there's no one in there?

    seem to remember The Doctor saying that in one episode
  • Dave-HDave-H Posts: 9,926
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    Clara had to be inside - doesn't the control room shut down if there's no one in there?
    seem to remember The Doctor saying that in one episode
    Maybe the control room does shut down if it's empty (power saving you know!) but I'm sure the TARDIS has flown many times with no-one aboard.
    :)
  • Dalekbuster523Dalekbuster523 Posts: 4,596
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    Dave-H wrote: »
    I'm sure the TARDIS has flown many times with no-one aboard.
    :)

    Has that actually been shown on screen?
  • GDKGDK Posts: 9,467
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    [Snip]But if the show is now establishing that The Tardis can take off and go save The Doc, hopefully we should be seeing it as a solution a lot more in the future.:)

    Probably an upgrade after the HADS debacle in CW. :D
  • Dave-HDave-H Posts: 9,926
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    Has that actually been shown on screen?
    I don't think we've ever actually seen the empty interior while it's in flight, but it's certainly de-materialised and re-materialised empty many times, most recently in Cold War of course (although that was the HADS kicking in!)
    :)
  • Dalekbuster523Dalekbuster523 Posts: 4,596
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    Dave-H wrote: »
    I don't think we've ever actually seen the empty interior while it's in flight, but it's certainly de-materialised and re-materialised empty many times, most recently in Cold War of course (although that was the HADS kicking in!)
    :)

    Cold War,like you said, doesn't really count,though, because that was the HADS system.
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
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    But the aim of the scene was not to show Clara saving the Doctor by piloting the TARDIS, regardless of whether or not that was what actually happened. Showing her pressing the buttons and pulling levers would have made it look exactly like that.

    The intention of the scene was for the TARDIS and Clara to have differences, and then put them aside - whatever they might be - and work together. The nuts and bolts of the hows and whys would have taken away from that.

    Aye I know what the scene was about was about but imo just a few seconds of showing Clara inside the Tardis and them both working together to save The Doctor would have been nice, something extra to champion about about the new companion.


    So it's unclear if The Tardis flew itself or Clara flew it.
    If The Tardis flew itself then it could set up questions for many future endings. If it was Clara then it doesn't because we know how she would have been able to fly it.

    Considering that the Tardis was just sitting there ringing it's cloister bell until Clara came along it is probable that she did actually fly it, why not show a few cut scenes to show this, especially as it goes through it's vortex and flies down to the Doctor. For me it would have built the scene a bit bit more and Clara arc.
    It might have done that Ive only seen the episode once.

    Not that it spoilt the scene, because for me it didn't but sometimes just a little extra helps build the excitement even more in terms of cheering on the companion.:)
  • Dalekbuster523Dalekbuster523 Posts: 4,596
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    If it was Clara then it doesn't because we know how she would have been able to fly it.

    No we don't. We haven't seen Clara fly the TARDIS or the Doctor show her how to.
  • sebbie3000sebbie3000 Posts: 5,188
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    Fudd wrote: »
    It took flight from the submarine and ended up at the South Pole because the Doctor had switched on the Hostile Action Deplacement System.

    Oh yes, of course. A defence mechanism programmed into it - not at all like taking the initiative to fly to someone's rescue, though.
  • sebbie3000sebbie3000 Posts: 5,188
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    Dave-H wrote: »
    Those abilities were a by-product of her mind having been temporarily absorbed into the computer system, which was made quite clear at the time.
    I don't think there's any reason to think that she still has those abilities now.
    :)

    Except there's no reason to suggest she lost them. In fact, it's a stronger suggestion to say she still has them - she had been removed from the GI with those skills, so she most likely kept them.
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
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    No we don't. We haven't seen Clara fly the TARDIS or the Doctor show her how to.

    You are right Dalekbuster in that we haven't actually seen it, but it has been implied that she isn't all it seems, even the Tardis senses it, and Clara did become uber geek during The Bells Of Saint John.

    But the whole Tardis taking off to save The Doctor it is open to interpretation no doubt, and not deliberately but more out a necessity for a conclusion, imo.

    As I said in a previous post maybe if we had seen what happens it would have been a bully bonus for the companions character, something extra for the viewer to cheer her on. Better than holding a leaf up in the air.:D
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