working with Kennedy's bodyguarding company made up of activated slayers. They are in a South American jungle, looking for Riley, who has gone missing. Faith rightly feels guilt for shagging him when she was in Buffy's body.
A Faith spin-off almost happened but ED declined, she chose to so Tru Calling instead. It would have involved Faith travelling the world "finding herself". There was also an idea about a "Slayer School" spin-off, but it never got beyond the pitch stage.
Thanks for explaining. The Faith one sounds quite interesting although I'm less enthusiastic about the Slayer School one; could be good but sounds too similar to X-Men.
Not surprised really. The guy has always had his demons.
I heard about this yesterday but wasn't sure whether or not I should post it. Quite sad but then again nice that he got married too.
Not that it's my place to decide but the charges against him do sound a little overblown. I mean I've broken a plate in a restaurant and didn't have to spend a night in the cells. Then again I imagine resisting arrest in this case would probably come off as the more serious crime.
I'm not much of a big comic reader but I think I'll at least check out the Season 8 motion one and take it from there. I suppose the big question is though are the comics considered canon, and is Joss Whedon involved in the writing of them? That would definitely influence any purchasing choice.
Habeas Corpses
- I only just got why the last episode was entitled Apocalypse Now-ish. I'm dumb.
- Angel-hair looks practically satanic overlooking Connor and Cordy. Something tells me he's angry too. ;-)
- Oh I think the world did end last night...!
- On a more serious note, I guess I can make peace with the fact that Connor and Cordy hooked up; there's no point in pretending that it didn't happen, and to a certain extent they did have viable motives. I did not like the morning after scene though. Connor's behaviour there just reeked of wrong.
- Poor Lilah. They're totally setting her up as the Big Bad this year, aren't they?
- I don't suppose a Lilah/Gavin office romance will be on the cards instead?
- Yup. Connor definitely is his father's son.
- Random thought but I wonder if the Satan creature is a Hell God – i.e. the exact same thing that Glory was? I know it's probably just a turn of phrase but Connor earlier referred to it as the Beast and that's what the Knights of Byzantium called her.
- I was literally just going to comment – in referral to Connor breaking in – that Wolfram and Hart are nowhere near as imposing as they used to be!
- Re Gavin: Well that's a shame.
- Don't you dare f**king kill Lilah!
- I swear this is the most macabre and bleak that Angel as a show has ever been.
- I seriously thought Lilah would tell Wesley that she loved him there.
- I hope Angel continues to be silently sassy around Cordelia for a little while longer.
- It's easy to forget that 'English' and Gunn once used to be friends.
- 'Cordelia stay here. It's too dangerous.' (calls for Fred.)
- O.K seriously are the employees of Wolfram and Hart all playing dead or are they immortal?
- I swear if Gunn gets turned into a zombie!
- I'm glad they got to visit the White Room again, even if it was just for a flying visit.
- Yeah, I have no idea where the show's going to go from here – especially in regards to Wolfram and Hart. That's good I think. It helps to keep the audience on their toes.
- To conclude, this was a pretty good episode and I certainly found it to be very atmospheric as well as effective. I didn't find it as tense as Blind Date though – another episode where s**t hit the fan inside Wolfram and Hart – because this time there were many more main characters directly involved and I think it was relatively obvious that they all wouldn't get turned into zombies. I'll also be disappointed if Lilah leaves now – her exit would feel to similar to Lindsey's – and Connor and Cordy continue to awkward me out. Finally, I wonder which of the group holds the key to defeating the Beast? Connor? Angel? Angelus, even?
This has got me wondering - what was everyone's general reaction to Tara's death? We didn't really talk about it much at the same - except for the surprise nature of it - and it sort of got overshadowed by other things. Me? I think it had a really interesting effect on Willow's character and I quite liked her arc in the last couple of episodes. I do wish we'd gotten to see more of the grieving process however since that was sort of pushed to one side by Willow's quest for vengeance.
It's interesting. At the time all I could think about was how shocking and awesome it was in terms of what it did to Willow but like, Whedon himself imo, I didn't really think about the repercussions once Willow got over her rage. Of all the characters that have died on the show Tara was the one I missed most - and not in a good Joyce way. Joyce's death was beautiful and it served Buffy's development in becoming an independent adult. Whereas with Willow it only served her temporary phase. In season 7 she lost a lot of her spark - she seemed very depressed throughout. I remember a time when you couldn't mention Willow without Tara. It was always 'Willow and Tara' 'Tara and Willow'. it felt, at the risk of sounding cheesy, like Willow had literally lost one half of herself. So I gotta disagree with you there.
So yeah, I'm undecided for want of a better word. I do know though that I certainly wouldn't have wanted Spike to kick the bucket instead. I'm loving his arc in Season 7; I think it's the most engaging one by far.
I feel like Spike's arc reached its natural conclusion towards the end of season 6. He attempted to rape Buffy and that should have been the wake-up call for Buffy to stake him. Instead, in order to keep an attempted rapist on the show, they gave him a soul. This wouldn't have been a problem if there wasn't already Angel. But we've seen it all before at this point and it felt like a cop-out just to keep him and still make him likeable. He's a great character but sometimes great characters have an expiry date at some point.
This has got me wondering - what was everyone's general reaction to Tara's death? We didn't really talk about it much at the same - except for the surprise nature of it - and it sort of got overshadowed by other things.
From what I remember (and I may be remembering wrong) I read that there was a general backlash at the time from the Gay/Lesbian community as Willow and Tara were kind of special being the first time an openly gay couple had featured on a TV show. So they weren't very happy about the death of Tara.
Personally, I was sad about it but the shock value and the dramatic aftermath made for great TV so, like the deaths on Game of Thrones, the general feeling is that it's upsetting but it's a sign of the greatness of the show that it's brave enough to do stuff like that.
As I was about 7 when I watched Tara die I can't really tell you much about what I thought about it at the time, though apparently I was very upset. Lots and lots of crying and I refused to watch Buffy ever again. (Till the next week when I watched it anyway of course)
Clearly my 7 year old self did not approve of the move. My 19 year old self still doesn't.
- I've been meaning to ask this question for a while but can any girl become a Slayer? Or are there any specific prerequisites of sorts?
- 'My death could make any one of you the next Slayer.' Um... No, it couldn’t.
- I don't especially understand why The First has gone into remission. Couldn't he just influence someone into grabbing a gun and shooting Buffy? Or why not just whistle and possess Spike again? (How did that even work by the way since of course he still has the chip in his head?)
- I will never tire of Buffy being unable to say the names of demons properly.
- I already know from the episode synopsis that Dawn is the new Potential Slayer so I think it's safe to say that this episode will be about her earning her stripes?
- Dragon Ball Z reference in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. My life is complete. (Well it was a bit misinformed but I'll take what I can get.)
- Willow has no time for Andrew's s**t.
- And by the by I really hope that Andrew joins the Scoobies full time. Sure it might be awkward but when is he not?
- But Buffy's death won't activate Dawn will it? Kind of seems like a big thing to get wrong.
- 'That's because you're a part of something larger now. Like being swallowed! By something larger.'
- Imagine if Clem is the one who saves the day and stops The First! Speaking of which, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's possessed Amanda as well, what with her desire to kill the marching band and all.
- This episode sort of reminds me of School Hard a bit in the sense a vampire is attacking the school at night.
- Why did Buffy and Spike lock the Potentials inside the room with the vampire? I know, I know independence and all but still it kinda seems like a mean thing to do.
- Wait what is Dawn doing? Is she running away?
- O.K I think I understand what it is Dawn's doing. She doesn't want to be a Potential Slayer so she's lying that Amanda is instead? But that makes no sense. Xander, Willow and Anya know the truth so it's going to wind up being a very short lived pretence.
- 'You're not special.' Wait Oh My God is Xander The First??!
- That was quite a nice ending scene between Xander and Dawn. I guess that Willow must have got the spell wrong or that Dawn got in the way by accident?
- To conclude, this was a pretty lacklustre episode; I didn't hate it but I didn't like it either. To be fair, it did have a somewhat interesting concept but I don't really feel like it did all that much to advance Dawn's character. I suppose you could argue that Dawn learned to accept herself and that not being a Potential Slayer wasn't the end of the world but I thought she was already O.K with that fact hence why she initially struggled to accept the responsibility of it? On a more positive note, I did like Spike and Buffy's little scenes and stares throughout but I didn't really enjoy their sub plot. I know that the training of the Potentials is an important thing to address – and I like how it contrasted with Dawn's story as well – but on the whole I found it a little bit bland. So yeah not the best episode but not the worst. I do appreciate Amanda though. Exempting Rona, she's probably my favourite of the Potentials so far.
Dawn got in the way - Amanda said it herself at the school - she was there when the spell was cast, and about to knock on the door but then she was (literally) taken aback by it, got freaked out and left.
ETA: I tend to remember stuff with Amanda in a lot more than the other Potentials. She's definitely the funniest one IMO!
Dawn got in the way - Amanda said it herself at the school - she was there when the spell was cast, and about to knock on the door but then she was (literally) taken aback by it, got freaked out and left.
ETA: I tend to remember stuff with Amanda in a lot more than the other Potentials. She's definitely the funniest one IMO!
Thanks for that. There was a lot going on towards the end of the episode - a fair bit of it seems to have gone straight over my head.
- I'm glad they've brought whatsherface from Ground State back. Much as I liked the character there my biggest strike against her was that they didn't develop her all that much.
- Should Angel and co survive the coming Apocalypses, they should totally open up the Hyperion again. It'd be like... Hotel Babylon only with a lot more blood and gore.
- So the Satan beast is like Sylar, yes? (My God that series feels eons ago!)
- Well I'm certainly glad Cordelia stuck to her promise!
- 'We didn't do anything wrong.' Society... disagrees m'lad.
- I'd question why an incredibly powerful demon feels the need to disguise herself as a pre-pubescent girl. I guess so as to catch people off guard or maybe she just doesn't like to age? Possibly both?
- Is it just me or does Gwen look a little bit like Glory?
- Seriously, what is it with the Ra-Tet and little girls?
- I'd like it if Gwen became a main character at the end, or at least appeared more frequently.
- I imagine they're going to topple the Beast at some point this episode? And that's an interesting plan which he's cooking up – not only in term of concept but also in the sense I thought his ultimate plan would be something a little more selfish. I don't understand what benefit he's getting from perpetual darkness (unless he just wants to witness the destruction of Earth?)
- The idea of an omniscient force appearing as a regular bloke sort of reminds me of Guise will be Guise. It's why I'm half expecting this to be all a trap. That, and lest we forget one of the Ra-Tet was working for Wolfram and Hart (although as we learnt from Lilah last season she didn't exactly treat the employees there with that much respect.)
- Can't the Beast just teleport though? Why isn't someone sleeping in the Panic Room with him?
- I like that the writers avoided have a heart to heart between Angel and Cordy. That would have been way too stereotypical here.
- Random thought but I like that Wesley's rejoined the gang.
- I'm not entirely sure why the Beast wants to get rid of the sun as well as Connor.
- The idea that the Ra-Tet are a literal Kinder Surprise seems a little bit stupid. I'd believe it more if all these items got wedged inside them by accident but even then I wouldn't buy it.
- The stunt where Connor was thrown from the window was quite impressive.
- This whole resoultion feels too easy but then there are only a couple of minutes left...
- Wait what does the Beast have a twin or a clone or...?
- Wait what? Is the Beast Angelus? Is this like when Angel went to Pylea and the demon side of his self was revealed? I don't understand. Have they possibly fused?
- Angelus has to come back now, right? It would explain why the episode after next is called Soulless! It's also interesting that Angel Investigations are going to try and control him (or at least that's the impression which I was left with at the end of the episode.)
- RIP Glen Quinn.
- To conclude, this was an interesting one – it set up a lot of quite big questions that I want to see answered as soon as possible. I don't think for a second that Angel was the one responsible for the inside job (it's probably just some kind of invisible ghost) though I would like very much to find out who or what was. The idea of perpetual darkness should be pretty enthralling too though I can't see it lasting for the rest of the season if only because it would have too much of an impact on Buffy. I suppose the final thing I want to see addressed within the next couple of episodes is Angel's link to the Beast though I can't really think how they're going to handle that twist (and I'm not entirely sure that it makes much sense.)
I personally love the next few episodes of Angel.. Soulless, Calvary, Release and Orpheus. That's what I was talking about when I said that a certain string of episodes in S4 were fantastic... however, I am not a fan of what follows, BUT I do love the last episode of S4, due to many reasons...
And then, S5 I think is almost perfect (not sure how many share the same view as me). I'm not sure what it is, but it has a perfect of comedy and action, for me, S4 always was very dark IMO. I personally can't fault ep 11 until the end of S5 from Damage to Not Fade Away because I loved it that much, looking forward to finding out whether you enjoy it!
All I will say is Smile Time
But, Damage is one to note if you want to understand about the Angel gang and the Buffy gang, (I'm sure that's not a spoiler, just something to note, it's interesting).
- Yeah, why doesn't Angel remember making a deal with the devil? Interesting, interesting...
- Angel singing through the glass made me laugh.
- I can't wait for Angelus to come back and comment on Connor and Cordy. He's also probably going to kill Gwen, Gunn, Cordelia, Wesley, Lilah, Lorne, Connor and the Kitchen Sink. Oh, and lest we forget the man of the moment David Nabbit!
- The Shaman is from the episode in Season 3 of Buffy where Angel tricked Faith into thinking he'd lost his soul, right?
- Didn't Wesley meet Angelus in Eternity? And I'm actually undecided if I want him to come back at all and for how long. It's really difficult to see where the show's going right now and what would be best for it. Still, I'll put my faith in Joss.
- I'm surprised that Angel agreed to have his soul removed. I thought for sure Wesley would exorcise it without his consent.
- It's 'so obvious' that Angelus is going to get out of the cage and kill the Shaman...
- This episode is going so Hannibal Lecter I love it.
- The Shaman's probably angry because he broke up with his wife. By that logic then, Giles'll be next on his hit list. (Assuming he isn't already dead that is!!)
- 'Uh, a little help here please.'
- I wonder if Cordelia is the white tooth? She does like to glow.
- Well she did at least point them in the direction of it. I also wonder if the Beast will steal Angel's soul?
- I like that Wesley and Angel have reached a mutual understanding of sorts but I'm sure Wesley's apologised before, even if it is just for tripping over.
- I also maintain that Angelus is going to resurface at some point this episode. I'm not entirely sure they'd play up Angel's fear of him returning for nothing.
- The sword can probably be in 100 places because of a portal.
- Since he was bragging last episode about his super speed, Connor should be the one to progress through the tunnel.
- And of course Wesley was the one to activate the last booby trap in the Tunnel of Love. (I call it that because almost all of Cordelia's love interests past and present are navigating through it.)
- Whatever happened to Wesley's glasses by the way?
- I know that Angel and Cordy are going to kiss in this episode so maybe that'll be what triggers the loss of his soul?
- I'm actually glad Wesley and Connor have gone off their own. I want Connor to casually bring up the time Wesley chose to abduct him. Then again maybe he'll be grateful about it since it's what led him directly to Holtz?
- 'Angel, I'm not sure if this is right.' Really Cordy you have reservations about that?!
- On the topic, normally I'd be grateful for some kind of interaction between Angel and Cordy but it just feels wrong after everything that happened with Connor.
- I can understand why Connor might be upset but his behaviour here reeks of spoiled brat. Angel has much more grounds to be angry.
- It sure would be useful to have the Ring of Amara right now...
- I actually really enjoyed that final fight, brief as it was. There was a real sense that neither nor Angel or Connor would be able to defeat the Beast.
- It's funny that Connor cites age as the biggest reason why he shouldn't date Cordelia. Surely that would be much more appropriate to Angel's relationship with her?
- Everything's going to go wrong in a minute...
- I actually don't mind that they resolved the sun plot like that. The episode was really interesting anyway that they could have resolved it with Tipex and I wouldn't have especially minded.
- Oh My God is Angelus back? Is he going to snap Cordy's neck?!!! He seems to be stroking it an awful lot!!!
- Oh f**k!
- What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k!
- Should I be angry or excited? It's like Dallas or something.
- I just knew the episode was too perfect with him making peace with Wesley, Connor and Cordy. And Angelus sure does have a creepy ass laugh...
- So yeah, this was one of the best episodes of Angel yet!
- What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k!
- I just knew the episode was too perfect with him making peace with Wesley, Connor and Cordy. And Angelus sure does have a creepy ass laugh...
- So yeah, this was one of the best episodes of Angel yet!
It was a nice cerebral way of bringing Angelus back, a brilliant twist and it pretty much fooled everyone. I like how the episode ends with the fade to black and the ongoing sound Angelus laughing...like he's laught at us for falling for falling for the twist. (More twists to come)
You do have a pretty good few episodes ahead of you in Angel before it all goes a bit meh so you've gotta enjoy it! Very interesting developments to follow
You do have a pretty good few episodes ahead of you in Angel before it all goes a bit meh so you've gotta enjoy it! Very interesting developments to follow
The final few episodes of the season are excellent and very thought provoking imo.
It's interesting. At the time all I could think about was how shocking and awesome it was in terms of what it did to Willow but like, Whedon himself imo, I didn't really think about the repercussions once Willow got over her rage. Of all the characters that have died on the show Tara was the one I missed most - and not in a good Joyce way. Joyce's death was beautiful and it served Buffy's development in becoming an independent adult. Whereas with Willow it only served her temporary phase. In season 7 she lost a lot of her spark - she seemed very depressed throughout. I remember a time when you couldn't mention Willow without Tara. It was always 'Willow and Tara' 'Tara and Willow'. it felt, at the risk of sounding cheesy, like Willow had literally lost one half of herself. So I gotta disagree with you there.
I feel like Spike's arc reached its natural conclusion towards the end of season 6. He attempted to rape Buffy and that should have been the wake-up call for Buffy to stake him. Instead, in order to keep an attempted rapist on the show, they gave him a soul. This wouldn't have been a problem if there wasn't already Angel. But we've seen it all before at this point and it felt like a cop-out just to keep him and still make him likeable. He's a great character but sometimes great characters have an expiry date at some point.
Well imo he didn't have an expiry date, as his character went on to be integral to the climax of Chosen.
Instead, in order to keep an attempted rapist on the show, they gave him a soul. This wouldn't have been a problem if there wasn't already Angel.
Well Angel hadn't been a part of the main Buffy cast since the end of season 4 and Spike's dealing with his soul was nothing like Angels for all sorts of reasons.
- The plot of this episode sounds... interesting to say the least. It might be quite good. Then again it might be quite bad. Same with any episode really!
- Well, it certainly looks like there's going to be a lot of familiar faces in this episode that's for sure.
- I liked the way Willow said s'mores.
- I thought at first that Spike might be faking. His pain sort of seemed to come out of nowhere.
- Willow and Kennedy are probably going to hook up at some point, aren't they?
- Willow must watch Moulin Rogue a lot!
- Even though the fade to black suggests otherwise, I imagine it'll be Willow whose still in control (i.e. it won't be actually Warren standing there.)
- This is reminding me of A New Man a bit.
- 'Hey! Bad touching.'
- I like that Spike was just flailing about in the background whilst this all important exposition was going on. You'd be forgiven for thinking he was actually drunk. (That's nothing against James Marsters pain acting though. I imagine he made it intentionally comedic for this particular sequence?)
- Random thought but I wonder if Principal Wood is in fact The First? I'm not sure if Giles will be though.
- This episode is also reminding me of Who Are You. Adam Busch does a good Alyson Hannigan impression I think.
- I imagine that Amy cast the spell?
- I hope there aren't zombies inside the Initiative. That'd be too similar to Angel of late. I'm also not sure I buy that people still work there.
- 'You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and don't touch them?'
- I don't especially buy Amy's motives for casting the spell at all. That was a pretty limp ending as well.
- To conclude, this episode wasn't really one of my favourites (as you can possibly tell from my lack of comments.) It had some interesting concepts I suppose but the whole thing didn't really connect with me; I found it a little bit boring to be perfectly honest. Although I can understand and appreciate the story of Willow turning into Warren, I don't really know of it was needed at the end of the day. I think it might have been just as effective – if not more so – had Willow just been forced to live inside Warren's body for a bit 'without any consequences' or bad things happening. My biggest gripe though was the plot with Giles and The First. That could have been a really cool idea with lots of suspense but are we really supposed to believe he went untouched by the Scoobies for all of that time? It was also resolved in a pretty lacklustre way too (although to be fair that scene was probably the best of the episode.) Ultimately, I'm enjoying Angel quite a lot more than Buffy at the moment. (The conclusion to Awakening)
Tiny shout out to 'Galaxy Quest' in that Buffy ep, when Kennedy is transported and says 'That was a hell of a thing', it's a line said by Fed Kwan in that film after he's been teleported on to the Protector.
To conclude, this episode wasn't really one of my favourites (as you can possibly tell from my lack of comments.) It had some interesting concepts I suppose but the whole thing didn't really connect with me; I found it a little bit boring to be perfectly honest. Although I can understand and appreciate the story of Willow turning into Warren, I don't really know of it was needed at the end of the day. I think it might have been just as effective – if not more so – had Willow just been forced to live inside Warren's body for a bit 'without any consequences' or bad things happening. My biggest gripe though was the plot with Giles and The First. That could have been a really cool idea with lots of suspense but are we really supposed to believe he went untouched by the Scoobies for all of that time? It was also resolved in a pretty lacklustre way too (although to be fair that scene was probably the best of the episode.) Ultimately, I'm enjoying Angel quite a lot more than Buffy at the moment. (The conclusion to Awakening)
BIB - Yes! Exactly! It's far too hard to believe that none of them had even hugged him at some point since he'd got back.
Ahhh, The Killer In Me is probably my least favourite episode of the entire series! My main gripe is the fact that they put Kennedy and Willow together in the first place. I feel that Tara's absence was still quite raw despite how much time had passed in the show so having pushing Willow and Kennedy together just felt wrong. I hate Kennedy in general actually! Her personality just doesn't fit with Willow they way Oz and Tara's did; to me, Kennedy's too pushy and obnoxious.As a rebound or long-term, the relationship doesn't work, imo. I'd also like to give a special mention to that horrific "Bringing you back to life" line...
I also agree with you re Amy. Her being responsible for what happened to Willow, along with her jealous ramblings about Willow and magic, made no sense. I said this ages ago on another thread, but it would've made way more sense if Willow had inadvertently done it to herself like how she turned herself invisible in Same Time, Same Place. Amy and her motives just came out of nowhere.
Comments
She is currently
Not surprised really. The guy has always had his demons.
I read up on some of them after I finished my Buffy & Angel run a while ago, and they sounded... pretty **** really.
I'm about to start season 10 volume 1 once it's released. But yeah, it's turned into bad fanfiction of late.
Thanks for explaining. The Faith one sounds quite interesting although I'm less enthusiastic about the Slayer School one; could be good but sounds too similar to X-Men.
I heard about this yesterday but wasn't sure whether or not I should post it. Quite sad but then again nice that he got married too.
Not that it's my place to decide but the charges against him do sound a little overblown. I mean I've broken a plate in a restaurant and didn't have to spend a night in the cells. Then again I imagine resisting arrest in this case would probably come off as the more serious crime.
I'm not much of a big comic reader but I think I'll at least check out the Season 8 motion one and take it from there. I suppose the big question is though are the comics considered canon, and is Joss Whedon involved in the writing of them? That would definitely influence any purchasing choice.
Habeas Corpses
- I only just got why the last episode was entitled Apocalypse Now-ish. I'm dumb.
- Angel-hair looks practically satanic overlooking Connor and Cordy. Something tells me he's angry too. ;-)
- Oh I think the world did end last night...!
- On a more serious note, I guess I can make peace with the fact that Connor and Cordy hooked up; there's no point in pretending that it didn't happen, and to a certain extent they did have viable motives. I did not like the morning after scene though. Connor's behaviour there just reeked of wrong.
- Poor Lilah. They're totally setting her up as the Big Bad this year, aren't they?
- I don't suppose a Lilah/Gavin office romance will be on the cards instead?
- Yup. Connor definitely is his father's son.
- Random thought but I wonder if the Satan creature is a Hell God – i.e. the exact same thing that Glory was? I know it's probably just a turn of phrase but Connor earlier referred to it as the Beast and that's what the Knights of Byzantium called her.
- I was literally just going to comment – in referral to Connor breaking in – that Wolfram and Hart are nowhere near as imposing as they used to be!
- Re Gavin: Well that's a shame.
- Don't you dare f**king kill Lilah!
- I swear this is the most macabre and bleak that Angel as a show has ever been.
- I seriously thought Lilah would tell Wesley that she loved him there.
- I hope Angel continues to be silently sassy around Cordelia for a little while longer.
- It's easy to forget that 'English' and Gunn once used to be friends.
- 'Cordelia stay here. It's too dangerous.' (calls for Fred.)
- O.K seriously are the employees of Wolfram and Hart all playing dead or are they immortal?
- I swear if Gunn gets turned into a zombie!
- I'm glad they got to visit the White Room again, even if it was just for a flying visit.
- Yeah, I have no idea where the show's going to go from here – especially in regards to Wolfram and Hart. That's good I think. It helps to keep the audience on their toes.
- To conclude, this was a pretty good episode and I certainly found it to be very atmospheric as well as effective. I didn't find it as tense as Blind Date though – another episode where s**t hit the fan inside Wolfram and Hart – because this time there were many more main characters directly involved and I think it was relatively obvious that they all wouldn't get turned into zombies. I'll also be disappointed if Lilah leaves now – her exit would feel to similar to Lindsey's – and Connor and Cordy continue to awkward me out. Finally, I wonder which of the group holds the key to defeating the Beast? Connor? Angel? Angelus, even?
It's interesting. At the time all I could think about was how shocking and awesome it was in terms of what it did to Willow but like, Whedon himself imo, I didn't really think about the repercussions once Willow got over her rage. Of all the characters that have died on the show Tara was the one I missed most - and not in a good Joyce way. Joyce's death was beautiful and it served Buffy's development in becoming an independent adult. Whereas with Willow it only served her temporary phase. In season 7 she lost a lot of her spark - she seemed very depressed throughout. I remember a time when you couldn't mention Willow without Tara. It was always 'Willow and Tara' 'Tara and Willow'. it felt, at the risk of sounding cheesy, like Willow had literally lost one half of herself. So I gotta disagree with you there.
I feel like Spike's arc reached its natural conclusion towards the end of season 6. He attempted to rape Buffy and that should have been the wake-up call for Buffy to stake him. Instead, in order to keep an attempted rapist on the show, they gave him a soul. This wouldn't have been a problem if there wasn't already Angel. But we've seen it all before at this point and it felt like a cop-out just to keep him and still make him likeable. He's a great character but sometimes great characters have an expiry date at some point.
From what I remember (and I may be remembering wrong) I read that there was a general backlash at the time from the Gay/Lesbian community as Willow and Tara were kind of special being the first time an openly gay couple had featured on a TV show. So they weren't very happy about the death of Tara.
Personally, I was sad about it but the shock value and the dramatic aftermath made for great TV so, like the deaths on Game of Thrones, the general feeling is that it's upsetting but it's a sign of the greatness of the show that it's brave enough to do stuff like that.
Clearly my 7 year old self did not approve of the move. My 19 year old self still doesn't.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer
has a very shiny nose
and if you ever saw her
you would even say it glows.
I can confirm that Buffy is, in no way shape or form like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.
P.S. Watch Buffy ;-)
- I've been meaning to ask this question for a while but can any girl become a Slayer? Or are there any specific prerequisites of sorts?
- 'My death could make any one of you the next Slayer.' Um... No, it couldn’t.
- I don't especially understand why The First has gone into remission. Couldn't he just influence someone into grabbing a gun and shooting Buffy? Or why not just whistle and possess Spike again? (How did that even work by the way since of course he still has the chip in his head?)
- I will never tire of Buffy being unable to say the names of demons properly.
- I already know from the episode synopsis that Dawn is the new Potential Slayer so I think it's safe to say that this episode will be about her earning her stripes?
- Dragon Ball Z reference in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. My life is complete.
- Willow has no time for Andrew's s**t.
- And by the by I really hope that Andrew joins the Scoobies full time. Sure it might be awkward but when is he not?
- But Buffy's death won't activate Dawn will it? Kind of seems like a big thing to get wrong.
- 'That's because you're a part of something larger now. Like being swallowed! By something larger.'
- Imagine if Clem is the one who saves the day and stops The First! Speaking of which, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's possessed Amanda as well, what with her desire to kill the marching band and all.
- This episode sort of reminds me of School Hard a bit in the sense a vampire is attacking the school at night.
- Why did Buffy and Spike lock the Potentials inside the room with the vampire? I know, I know independence and all but still it kinda seems like a mean thing to do.
- Wait what is Dawn doing? Is she running away?
- O.K I think I understand what it is Dawn's doing. She doesn't want to be a Potential Slayer so she's lying that Amanda is instead? But that makes no sense. Xander, Willow and Anya know the truth so it's going to wind up being a very short lived pretence.
- 'You're not special.' Wait Oh My God is Xander The First??!
- That was quite a nice ending scene between Xander and Dawn. I guess that Willow must have got the spell wrong or that Dawn got in the way by accident?
- To conclude, this was a pretty lacklustre episode; I didn't hate it but I didn't like it either. To be fair, it did have a somewhat interesting concept but I don't really feel like it did all that much to advance Dawn's character. I suppose you could argue that Dawn learned to accept herself and that not being a Potential Slayer wasn't the end of the world but I thought she was already O.K with that fact hence why she initially struggled to accept the responsibility of it? On a more positive note, I did like Spike and Buffy's little scenes and stares throughout but I didn't really enjoy their sub plot. I know that the training of the Potentials is an important thing to address – and I like how it contrasted with Dawn's story as well – but on the whole I found it a little bit bland. So yeah not the best episode but not the worst. I do appreciate Amanda though. Exempting Rona, she's probably my favourite of the Potentials so far.
ETA: I tend to remember stuff with Amanda in a lot more than the other Potentials. She's definitely the funniest one IMO!
Thanks for that. There was a lot going on towards the end of the episode - a fair bit of it seems to have gone straight over my head.
All of the other Potentials
used to laugh and call her names
They wouldn't let poor Buffy
join in any Slaying games.
Then one foggy Apocalypse
Rupert came to say
'Buffy with your nose so bright
won't you save the world tonight?'
Then all the Potentials loved her
as they shouted out with glee
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
you'll go down in history!
That's how the song goes, right? You'll have to forgive me. It's been a while sice I sang it.
that sounds about right........:p
Phew! I was getting worried there for a second.
Long Day's Journey
- I'm glad they've brought whatsherface from Ground State back. Much as I liked the character there my biggest strike against her was that they didn't develop her all that much.
- Should Angel and co survive the coming Apocalypses, they should totally open up the Hyperion again. It'd be like... Hotel Babylon only with a lot more blood and gore.
- So the Satan beast is like Sylar, yes? (My God that series feels eons ago!)
- Well I'm certainly glad Cordelia stuck to her promise!
- 'We didn't do anything wrong.' Society... disagrees m'lad.
- I'd question why an incredibly powerful demon feels the need to disguise herself as a pre-pubescent girl. I guess so as to catch people off guard or maybe she just doesn't like to age? Possibly both?
- Is it just me or does Gwen look a little bit like Glory?
- Seriously, what is it with the Ra-Tet and little girls?
- I'd like it if Gwen became a main character at the end, or at least appeared more frequently.
- I imagine they're going to topple the Beast at some point this episode? And that's an interesting plan which he's cooking up – not only in term of concept but also in the sense I thought his ultimate plan would be something a little more selfish. I don't understand what benefit he's getting from perpetual darkness (unless he just wants to witness the destruction of Earth?)
- The idea of an omniscient force appearing as a regular bloke sort of reminds me of Guise will be Guise. It's why I'm half expecting this to be all a trap. That, and lest we forget one of the Ra-Tet was working for Wolfram and Hart (although as we learnt from Lilah last season she didn't exactly treat the employees there with that much respect.)
- Can't the Beast just teleport though? Why isn't someone sleeping in the Panic Room with him?
- I like that the writers avoided have a heart to heart between Angel and Cordy. That would have been way too stereotypical here.
- Random thought but I like that Wesley's rejoined the gang.
- I'm not entirely sure why the Beast wants to get rid of the sun as well as Connor.
- The idea that the Ra-Tet are a literal Kinder Surprise seems a little bit stupid. I'd believe it more if all these items got wedged inside them by accident but even then I wouldn't buy it.
- The stunt where Connor was thrown from the window was quite impressive.
- This whole resoultion feels too easy but then there are only a couple of minutes left...
- Wait what does the Beast have a twin or a clone or...?
- Wait what? Is the Beast Angelus? Is this like when Angel went to Pylea and the demon side of his self was revealed? I don't understand. Have they possibly fused?
- Angelus has to come back now, right? It would explain why the episode after next is called Soulless! It's also interesting that Angel Investigations are going to try and control him (or at least that's the impression which I was left with at the end of the episode.)
- RIP Glen Quinn.
- To conclude, this was an interesting one – it set up a lot of quite big questions that I want to see answered as soon as possible. I don't think for a second that Angel was the one responsible for the inside job (it's probably just some kind of invisible ghost) though I would like very much to find out who or what was. The idea of perpetual darkness should be pretty enthralling too though I can't see it lasting for the rest of the season if only because it would have too much of an impact on Buffy. I suppose the final thing I want to see addressed within the next couple of episodes is Angel's link to the Beast though I can't really think how they're going to handle that twist (and I'm not entirely sure that it makes much sense.)
And then, S5 I think is almost perfect (not sure how many share the same view as me). I'm not sure what it is, but it has a perfect of comedy and action, for me, S4 always was very dark IMO. I personally can't fault ep 11 until the end of S5 from Damage to Not Fade Away because I loved it that much, looking forward to finding out whether you enjoy it!
All I will say is Smile Time
But, Damage is one to note if you want to understand about the Angel gang and the Buffy gang, (I'm sure that's not a spoiler, just something to note, it's interesting).
- Yeah, why doesn't Angel remember making a deal with the devil? Interesting, interesting...
- Angel singing through the glass made me laugh.
- I can't wait for Angelus to come back and comment on Connor and Cordy. He's also probably going to kill Gwen, Gunn, Cordelia, Wesley, Lilah, Lorne, Connor and the Kitchen Sink. Oh, and lest we forget the man of the moment David Nabbit!
- The Shaman is from the episode in Season 3 of Buffy where Angel tricked Faith into thinking he'd lost his soul, right?
- Didn't Wesley meet Angelus in Eternity? And I'm actually undecided if I want him to come back at all and for how long. It's really difficult to see where the show's going right now and what would be best for it. Still, I'll put my faith in Joss.
- I'm surprised that Angel agreed to have his soul removed. I thought for sure Wesley would exorcise it without his consent.
- It's 'so obvious' that Angelus is going to get out of the cage and kill the Shaman...
- This episode is going so Hannibal Lecter I love it.
- The Shaman's probably angry because he broke up with his wife. By that logic then, Giles'll be next on his hit list. (Assuming he isn't already dead that is!!)
- 'Uh, a little help here please.'
- I wonder if Cordelia is the white tooth? She does like to glow.
- Well she did at least point them in the direction of it. I also wonder if the Beast will steal Angel's soul?
- I like that Wesley and Angel have reached a mutual understanding of sorts but I'm sure Wesley's apologised before, even if it is just for tripping over.
- I also maintain that Angelus is going to resurface at some point this episode. I'm not entirely sure they'd play up Angel's fear of him returning for nothing.
- The sword can probably be in 100 places because of a portal.
- Since he was bragging last episode about his super speed, Connor should be the one to progress through the tunnel.
- And of course Wesley was the one to activate the last booby trap in the Tunnel of Love. (I call it that because almost all of Cordelia's love interests past and present are navigating through it.)
- Whatever happened to Wesley's glasses by the way?
- I know that Angel and Cordy are going to kiss in this episode so maybe that'll be what triggers the loss of his soul?
- I'm actually glad Wesley and Connor have gone off their own. I want Connor to casually bring up the time Wesley chose to abduct him. Then again maybe he'll be grateful about it since it's what led him directly to Holtz?
- 'Angel, I'm not sure if this is right.' Really Cordy you have reservations about that?!
- On the topic, normally I'd be grateful for some kind of interaction between Angel and Cordy but it just feels wrong after everything that happened with Connor.
- I can understand why Connor might be upset but his behaviour here reeks of spoiled brat. Angel has much more grounds to be angry.
- It sure would be useful to have the Ring of Amara right now...
- I actually really enjoyed that final fight, brief as it was. There was a real sense that neither nor Angel or Connor would be able to defeat the Beast.
- It's funny that Connor cites age as the biggest reason why he shouldn't date Cordelia. Surely that would be much more appropriate to Angel's relationship with her?
- Everything's going to go wrong in a minute...
- I actually don't mind that they resolved the sun plot like that. The episode was really interesting anyway that they could have resolved it with Tipex and I wouldn't have especially minded.
- Oh My God is Angelus back? Is he going to snap Cordy's neck?!!! He seems to be stroking it an awful lot!!!
- Oh f**k!
- What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k! What the f**k!
- Should I be angry or excited? It's like Dallas or something.
- I just knew the episode was too perfect with him making peace with Wesley, Connor and Cordy. And Angelus sure does have a creepy ass laugh...
- So yeah, this was one of the best episodes of Angel yet!
It was a nice cerebral way of bringing Angelus back, a brilliant twist and it pretty much fooled everyone. I like how the episode ends with the fade to black and the ongoing sound Angelus laughing...like he's laught at us for falling for falling for the twist. (More twists to come)
The final few episodes of the season are excellent and very thought provoking imo.
Well imo he didn't have an expiry date, as his character went on to be integral to the climax of Chosen.
Well Angel hadn't been a part of the main Buffy cast since the end of season 4 and Spike's dealing with his soul was nothing like Angels for all sorts of reasons.
- The plot of this episode sounds... interesting to say the least. It might be quite good. Then again it might be quite bad. Same with any episode really!
- Well, it certainly looks like there's going to be a lot of familiar faces in this episode that's for sure.
- I liked the way Willow said s'mores.
- I thought at first that Spike might be faking. His pain sort of seemed to come out of nowhere.
- Willow and Kennedy are probably going to hook up at some point, aren't they?
- Willow must watch Moulin Rogue a lot!
- Even though the fade to black suggests otherwise, I imagine it'll be Willow whose still in control (i.e. it won't be actually Warren standing there.)
- This is reminding me of A New Man a bit.
- 'Hey! Bad touching.'
- I like that Spike was just flailing about in the background whilst this all important exposition was going on. You'd be forgiven for thinking he was actually drunk. (That's nothing against James Marsters pain acting though. I imagine he made it intentionally comedic for this particular sequence?)
- Random thought but I wonder if Principal Wood is in fact The First? I'm not sure if Giles will be though.
- This episode is also reminding me of Who Are You. Adam Busch does a good Alyson Hannigan impression I think.
- I imagine that Amy cast the spell?
- I hope there aren't zombies inside the Initiative. That'd be too similar to Angel of late. I'm also not sure I buy that people still work there.
- 'You think I'm evil if I bring a group of girls on a camping trip and don't touch them?'
- I don't especially buy Amy's motives for casting the spell at all. That was a pretty limp ending as well.
- To conclude, this episode wasn't really one of my favourites (as you can possibly tell from my lack of comments.) It had some interesting concepts I suppose but the whole thing didn't really connect with me; I found it a little bit boring to be perfectly honest. Although I can understand and appreciate the story of Willow turning into Warren, I don't really know of it was needed at the end of the day. I think it might have been just as effective – if not more so – had Willow just been forced to live inside Warren's body for a bit 'without any consequences' or bad things happening. My biggest gripe though was the plot with Giles and The First. That could have been a really cool idea with lots of suspense but are we really supposed to believe he went untouched by the Scoobies for all of that time? It was also resolved in a pretty lacklustre way too (although to be fair that scene was probably the best of the episode.) Ultimately, I'm enjoying Angel quite a lot more than Buffy at the moment. (The conclusion to Awakening
BIB - Yes! Exactly! It's far too hard to believe that none of them had even hugged him at some point since he'd got back.
Ahhh, The Killer In Me is probably my least favourite episode of the entire series! My main gripe is the fact that they put Kennedy and Willow together in the first place. I feel that Tara's absence was still quite raw despite how much time had passed in the show so having pushing Willow and Kennedy together just felt wrong. I hate Kennedy in general actually! Her personality just doesn't fit with Willow they way Oz and Tara's did; to me, Kennedy's too pushy and obnoxious.As a rebound or long-term, the relationship doesn't work, imo. I'd also like to give a special mention to that horrific "Bringing you back to life" line...
I also agree with you re Amy. Her being responsible for what happened to Willow, along with her jealous ramblings about Willow and magic, made no sense. I said this ages ago on another thread, but it would've made way more sense if Willow had inadvertently done it to herself like how she turned herself invisible in Same Time, Same Place. Amy and her motives just came out of nowhere.