Exactly. Heterosexuality IS the norm. That's why gay people have had fewer rights for centuries. It's because they're on the outside of what society deems "normal" and thankfully things are changing. However, I don't see these little fits of outrage of a family being portrayed in an advertisement doing the gay rights movement any good at all. It just makes gay people look like they're playing the victim. Some people are straight, get over it!
At risk of people misunderstanding my stance on the topic, I do think it'd be helpful if people understood the concept that poster raised.
Best analogy I can think of is that rape was once 'the norm'. It's not now. Society evolves and what is deemed 'normal' changes. The fact that heterosexuality is more prevalent doesn't necessarily mean most people are heterosexual. We've had centuries of society dictating that homosexuality was wrong, evil, sinful, and illegal. Of course most people currently live heterosexual lives when within some of our lifetimes being otherwise was in fact a crime. But that is changing ever more rapidly.
I've tried to put it in non-psycho babble terms - point is, IMO it is relevant. That poster had a good point - I just don't agree with his apparent stance that traditional, heterosexual family units are somehow wrong because they don't represent him, and I think we've made great strides forward in little time to progress from the 'heteronormative' society we had only a few decades back.
At risk of people misunderstanding my stance on the topic, I do think it'd be helpful if people understood the concept that poster raised.
Best analogy I can think of is that rape was once 'the norm'. It's not now. Society evolves and what is deemed 'normal' changes. The fact that heterosexuality is more prevalent doesn't necessarily mean most people are heterosexual. We've had centuries of society dictating that homosexuality was wrong, evil, sinful, and illegal. Of course most people currently live heterosexual lives when within some of our lifetimes being otherwise was in fact a crime. But that is changing ever more rapidly.
I've tried to put it in non-psycho babble terms - point is, IMO it is relevant. That poster had a good point - I just don't agree with his apparent stance that traditional, heterosexual family units are somehow wrong because they don't represent him, and I think we've made great strides forward in little time to progress from the 'heteronormative' society we had only a few decades back.
But isn't it accepted that our sexuality is something we are born with, rather than choosing it because society deems it normal.
Exactly. Heterosexuality IS the norm. That's why gay people have had fewer rights for centuries. It's because they're on the outside of what society deems "normal" and thankfully things are changing. However, I don't see these little fits of outrage of a family being portrayed in an advertisement doing the gay rights movement any good at all. It just makes gay people look like they're playing the victim. Some people are straight, get over it!
Most people are straight. Most people also agree that the 'traditional'. 'classic' view of family is appealing.
And that is never going to change.
Complaining about a normal family being featured in an ad only shows stupidity and arrogance. The 'look at me, me, me' mentality is on display here - imagine gay activiats protesting outside a supermarket, demanding a boycott, crying 'Who is with us?' and being met with nothing but hysterical laughter from Italians.
They should stick to protests about something real - Putin's laws for example. People would take that seriously - once they've had their pasta dinner.
But isn't it accepted that our sexuality is something we are born with, rather than choosing it because society deems it normal.
exactly its like saying people who are shorter or taller than average are being discriminated against because the majority of equipment (kitchen worktops, toilet heights, sinks, doorways, steps) is made with an average height in mind.
the norm would be around 5-6 foot, anything outside of that is not 'normal' but theres no moral judgement about it, it just isnt the height of the majority of people
Such things try to enforce a heteronormative narrative. We don't want a sex hierarchy. We want equality.
Society isn't heteronormative these days.
There should be more pasta adverts depicting two white gay blokes serving up spaghetti to their adopted black transgender child in a washing up bowl because that's all she'll eat it out of because of her aspergers and autism, something like that?
But isn't it accepted that our sexuality is something we are born with, rather than choosing it because society deems it normal.
Accepted by who? Depends whether you ask on a DS thread, a group of academics, or just little old me!
There's no uniform agreement on that to be honest. My opinion is that both are relevant.
If you're born homosexual but raised somewhere that homosexuality is illegal, seen as sinful, would be shameful to your family, and potentially get you attacked or worse, well...! Firstly you probably wouldn't hear enough about homosexuality to even identify that you were homosexual, and even if you did come to that conclusion, you would be highly unlikely to express it, would you? You'd probably do whatever was seen as normal to fit in.
And that is precisely what has been going on for centuries, and frankly, we still have a way to go IMO. It's not 'solved', but I think we've made a lot of progress in a very short space of time.
There should be more pasta adverts depicting two white gay blokes serving up spaghetti to their adopted black transgender child in a washing up bowl because that's all she'll eat it out of because of her aspergers and autism, something like that?
There should be more pasta adverts depicting two white gay blokes serving up spaghetti to their adopted black transgender child in a washing up bowl because that's all she'll eat it out of because of her aspergers and autism, something like that?
I wish that poster would come back and answer my questions, as I can only presume his solution was something along these lines!
It does really annoy me when I see these old fashioned TV adverts portraying a family - husband, wife, son and daughter. Do these companies not realise that homes and relationships have now changed. lol
snip>>
Oh please , can you not find a worthwhile cause to get upset about , ask the average gay man or woman if they are upset by seeing a family unit of Mum dad and kids on TV promoting pasta and they would probably laugh at you.
If they were eating pasta and saying a family is only normal if its Mum dad and kids then I would say they were out of order , but they are not .
Should we stop all adverts showing a heterosexual couple etc just in case someone is offended ? People have taken being offended to ridiculous levels and now seem to have gone beyond real offense and just do it for the sake of it.
There should be more pasta adverts depicting two white gay blokes serving up spaghetti to their adopted black transgender child in a washing up bowl because that's all she'll eat it out of because of her aspergers and autism, something like that?
And that's not just any pasta, that's halal, kosher, gluten free, salt free, sugar free, low fat pasta.
Oh, it's the usual professional homosexualists throwing their predictable paddy - the sort that gets the rest of us a bad name.
What do they expect a pasta firm to put in an ad? A swarthy Sicilian saying to his fey, designer clad Milanese boyfriend "you're going to love the stuffing in the canelloni tonight, Alessandro", with a coquettish wink.
Oh, it's the usual professional homosexualists throwing their predictable paddy - the sort that gets the rest of us a bad name.
What do they expect a pasta firm to put in an ad? A swarthy Sicilian saying to his fey, designer clad Milanese boyfriend "you're going to love the stuffing in the canelloni tonight, Alessandro", with a coquettish wink.
How many adverts actually do show "non traditional" families anyway? The only reason anyone said anything is because he drew attention to the fact that his company wasn't going to change.
Oh, it's the usual professional homosexualists throwing their predictable paddy - the sort that gets the rest of us a bad name.
What do they expect a pasta firm to put in an ad? A swarthy Sicilian saying to his fey, designer clad Milanese boyfriend "you're going to love the stuffing in the canelloni tonight, Alessandro", with a coquettish wink.
Accepted by who? Depends whether you ask on a DS thread, a group of academics, or just little old me!
There's no uniform agreement on that to be honest. My opinion is that both are relevant.
If you're born homosexual but raised somewhere that homosexuality is illegal, seen as sinful, would be shameful to your family, and potentially get you attacked or worse, well...! Firstly you probably wouldn't hear enough about homosexuality to even identify that you were homosexual, and even if you did come to that conclusion, you would be highly unlikely to express it, would you? You'd probably do whatever was seen as normal to fit in.
And that is precisely what has been going on for centuries, and frankly, we still have a way to go IMO. It's not 'solved', but I think we've made a lot of progress in a very short space of time.
as an evolutionary development, it would be disastrous for any species if the majority were not heterosexual (ie its sexual behaviour must be geared toward reproduction)
I think most of you are totally missing the point. It's not that I'm particularly bothered about the fact that he uses a pretty bog-standard 2.4 children family model to advertise his brand, it's his assertion that he would never use any other kind, specifically a gay family. It's the finality and dismissal of it which is offensive.
"I wouldn't do an ad with a homosexual family not because I disrespect gays - they have their right to do whatever they want without disturbing others - but because I don't think like them and I think that the family we try to address is anyway a classic family."
That bit in the bold is classic passive aggressive homophobia. He might as well have said 'behind closed doors'.
Oh, it's the usual professional homosexualists throwing their predictable paddy - the sort that gets the rest of us a bad name.
What do they expect a pasta firm to put in an ad? A swarthy Sicilian saying to his fey, designer clad Milanese boyfriend "you're going to love the stuffing in the canelloni tonight, Alessandro", with a coquettish wink.
FFS.
Yes. If there was a gay couple in the ad, they would have to wear designer gear, they'd have to be 'fey' and of course they couldn't get through an ad without alluding to anal sex because of their sexuality.
Yes. If there was a gay couple in the ad, they would have to wear designer gear, they'd have to be 'fey' and of course they couldn't get through an ad without alluding to anal sex because of their sexuality.
In other words, you're an idiot.
And in other words, you've obviously had a sense of humour by-pass.
It's utterly ridiculous to get wound up by a company marketing it's food by using traditional family images - especially in Italy where the traditional family predominates in a way it no longer does here. Do you really have to try this hard to get outraged?
I think most of you are totally missing the point. It's not that I'm particularly bothered about the fact that he uses a pretty bog-standard 2.4 children family model to advertise his brand, it's his assertion that he would never use any other kind, specifically a gay family. It's the finality and dismissal of it which is offensive.
"I wouldn't do an ad with a homosexual family not because I disrespect gays - they have their right to do whatever they want without disturbing others - but because I don't think like them and I think that the family we try to address is anyway a classic family."
That bit in the bold is classic passive aggressive homophobia. He might as well have said 'behind closed doors'.
Thank you so much for that clarification - I think stuff is getting lost in translation.
Interestingly, he later released a grovelling apology for his words on all the Barilla facebook pages in every country except for Russia and Turkey. Make of THAT what you will
Comments
Spaghet to the back of the class.
At risk of people misunderstanding my stance on the topic, I do think it'd be helpful if people understood the concept that poster raised.
Best analogy I can think of is that rape was once 'the norm'. It's not now. Society evolves and what is deemed 'normal' changes. The fact that heterosexuality is more prevalent doesn't necessarily mean most people are heterosexual. We've had centuries of society dictating that homosexuality was wrong, evil, sinful, and illegal. Of course most people currently live heterosexual lives when within some of our lifetimes being otherwise was in fact a crime. But that is changing ever more rapidly.
I've tried to put it in non-psycho babble terms - point is, IMO it is relevant. That poster had a good point - I just don't agree with his apparent stance that traditional, heterosexual family units are somehow wrong because they don't represent him, and I think we've made great strides forward in little time to progress from the 'heteronormative' society we had only a few decades back.
But isn't it accepted that our sexuality is something we are born with, rather than choosing it because society deems it normal.
Most people are straight. Most people also agree that the 'traditional'. 'classic' view of family is appealing.
And that is never going to change.
Complaining about a normal family being featured in an ad only shows stupidity and arrogance. The 'look at me, me, me' mentality is on display here - imagine gay activiats protesting outside a supermarket, demanding a boycott, crying 'Who is with us?' and being met with nothing but hysterical laughter from Italians.
They should stick to protests about something real - Putin's laws for example. People would take that seriously - once they've had their pasta dinner.
exactly its like saying people who are shorter or taller than average are being discriminated against because the majority of equipment (kitchen worktops, toilet heights, sinks, doorways, steps) is made with an average height in mind.
the norm would be around 5-6 foot, anything outside of that is not 'normal' but theres no moral judgement about it, it just isnt the height of the majority of people
WTF
There should be more pasta adverts depicting two white gay blokes serving up spaghetti to their adopted black transgender child in a washing up bowl because that's all she'll eat it out of because of her aspergers and autism, something like that?
Accepted by who?
There's no uniform agreement on that to be honest. My opinion is that both are relevant.
If you're born homosexual but raised somewhere that homosexuality is illegal, seen as sinful, would be shameful to your family, and potentially get you attacked or worse, well...! Firstly you probably wouldn't hear enough about homosexuality to even identify that you were homosexual, and even if you did come to that conclusion, you would be highly unlikely to express it, would you? You'd probably do whatever was seen as normal to fit in.
And that is precisely what has been going on for centuries, and frankly, we still have a way to go IMO. It's not 'solved', but I think we've made a lot of progress in a very short space of time.
I wish that poster would come back and answer my questions, as I can only presume his solution was something along these lines!
A pasta advert doesnt represent me or my friends either, thankfully.
Oh please , can you not find a worthwhile cause to get upset about , ask the average gay man or woman if they are upset by seeing a family unit of Mum dad and kids on TV promoting pasta and they would probably laugh at you.
If they were eating pasta and saying a family is only normal if its Mum dad and kids then I would say they were out of order , but they are not .
Should we stop all adverts showing a heterosexual couple etc just in case someone is offended ? People have taken being offended to ridiculous levels and now seem to have gone beyond real offense and just do it for the sake of it.
And that's not just any pasta, that's halal, kosher, gluten free, salt free, sugar free, low fat pasta.
What do they expect a pasta firm to put in an ad? A swarthy Sicilian saying to his fey, designer clad Milanese boyfriend "you're going to love the stuffing in the canelloni tonight, Alessandro", with a coquettish wink.
FFS.
There should also be an advert which involves no pasta at all.
We will make a pasta free pasta for you , everyone must be included .
Ha ha ha
Done well that could be an epic advert lol.
as an evolutionary development, it would be disastrous for any species if the majority were not heterosexual (ie its sexual behaviour must be geared toward reproduction)
"I wouldn't do an ad with a homosexual family not because I disrespect gays - they have their right to do whatever they want without disturbing others - but because I don't think like them and I think that the family we try to address is anyway a classic family."
That bit in the bold is classic passive aggressive homophobia. He might as well have said 'behind closed doors'.
Yes. If there was a gay couple in the ad, they would have to wear designer gear, they'd have to be 'fey' and of course they couldn't get through an ad without alluding to anal sex because of their sexuality.
In other words, you're an idiot.
And in other words, you've obviously had a sense of humour by-pass.
It's utterly ridiculous to get wound up by a company marketing it's food by using traditional family images - especially in Italy where the traditional family predominates in a way it no longer does here. Do you really have to try this hard to get outraged?
You also need to read the T&Cs of the forum.
Thank you so much for that clarification - I think stuff is getting lost in translation.
Interestingly, he later released a grovelling apology for his words on all the Barilla facebook pages in every country except for Russia and Turkey. Make of THAT what you will