I wouldn't call him little. Doctor Who fans have a lot to be grateful to him for. Do you not understand the Terms & Conditions of this forum about making abusive personal remarks?
The Ts&Cs don't apply to saying things like "Ian Levine is an absolute turnip", because he's not on here and such comments aren't being directly addressed to him.
The Ts&Cs don't apply to saying things like "Ian Levine is an absolute turnip", because he's not on here and such comments aren't being directly addressed to him.
Unless he is ;-)
If I remember correctly he has used digital spy before. Even if he wasn't a user insulting him is not constructive and adds nothing to the discussion.
The Ts&Cs don't apply to saying things like "Ian Levine is an absolute turnip", because he's not on here and such comments aren't being directly addressed to him.
Unless he is ;-)
Unless he is what? On here, or an absolute turnip?
If I remember correctly he has used digital spy before. Even if he wasn't a user insulting him is not constructive and adds nothing to the discussion.
This is a 4.5k post thread based on nobody knowing anything, it's a bit of a red herring to talk about being constructive and adding to the discussion. Besides, he's involved himself in this ongoing saga and is making a berk of himself, nobody should be denied the right to comment on that.
This is a 4.5k post thread based on nobody knowing anything, it's a bit of a red herring to talk about being constructive and adding to the discussion. Besides, he's involved himself in this ongoing saga and is making a berk of himself, nobody should be denied the right to comment on that.
Speak to digital spy then since it breaks their terms and conditions. Insulting someone is not constructive and I would consider that you are making a "berk" of yourself that you suggest this sort of behaviour is acceptable. Unless you have some sort of social difficulty. If you have an issue with comments report them. Don't go on a Doctor Who forum and turn a thread into something that is used to insult people. And I would like to add I don't find Ian Levine's comments to be acceptable.
Yeah a lot of the efforts to find episodes in the 80s/90s were no more than phone calls and faxes. I'd imagine a lot of them didn't even bother to check. It needs someone like Phil Morris to go and look themselves before it can be totally ruled out.
Well I highly doubt Singapore would be as hard to deal with as lets say Nigeria becuase it is a developed and well managed company. However when Dr Who was broadcasting there it was what we would now call a emerging country. I am also not sure how well they archived their tv shows in the 60s and 70s, however the National Archives of Singapore does claim to have film and television material dating from that era.
The reason I have suggested Singapore is because they did buy every single 1st and 2nd Doctor Story apart from DMP and maybe Mission to the Unknown (it has been suggested they where the only overseas buyer of that episode).
According to the Destruction of Time Blog, here is a list of missing episodes they "might" have retained(i.e. they did not send them on to other broadcasters or back to the BBC), in other words they are listed as "fate unknown":
The Reign of Terror
Galaxy 4
The Myth Makers
The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve
The Celestial Toymaker
The Savages
The Smugglers
The Tenth Planet
The Power of the Daleks
The Highlanders
The Underwater Menace
The Moonbase
The Macra Terror
The Faceless Ones
The Evil of the Daleks
The Ice Warriors
Fury from the Deep
RTS did not retain some of them of them (such as Marco Polo) and sent them to other broadcasters, but the 5 out of 6 Web of Fear episodes and and the Enemy of the World episodes (which where one of the few RTS sent overseas) found in Nigeria did come from Singapore, so if they where kept as well as well as the Nigerian prints and they did not bother returning them or trashing them, there might be some finds over there...
They were 'contacted' (phone or fax, presumably) in the 1990s.
We don't know what they did to check, though, you're right. Physically going into the archives and checking what's there is what Philip Morris is doing at the moment, which is what's led to the most recent recovery.
However, actually gaining access to the archives in the first place requires vast amounts of patience and negotiating abilities, so is best left to the experts.
As far as we know, Philip Morris hasn't finished in Africa yet and he's the best man for the job.
Why could they have not gone to Singapore itself considering that is nothing like parts of Africa in terms of access and Mediacorp did not use the RTS name since 1980 so why refer to it as such?
Philip Morris had done a good job so far but why did he not start with Singapore, if I was looking for missing Dr Who episodes, that would be a very good place to start...
What I find embarrassing are posts like this from so called Doctor Who fans.
Do you read some of his Tweets? Some of the things he has said to fans and members of the production crew of Who have been downright abhorrent and needlessly personal.
I don't like the bloke because of his ill treatment of people and awful behaviour. I'm not apologising for that.
Why could they have not gone to Singapore itself considering that is nothing like parts of Africa in terms of access and Mediacorp did not use the RTS name since 1980 so why refer to it as such?
Philip Morris had done a good job so far but why did he not start with Singapore, if I was looking for missing Dr Who episodes, that would be a very good place to start...
He's got more contacts and whatnot in Africa, plus that's where the paper trail had the most promising leads. Also, if he doesn't do it now the archives might not be there much longer - he's spoken of going into an archive in Zambia where everything was decayed to vinegar smelling dust, and, of course, we all know about the film archive destroyed in Sierra Leone in 1999, and the church destroyed by terrorists in Joss when he was there.
He's got more contacts and whatnot in Africa, plus that's where the paper trail had the most promising leads. Also, if he doesn't do it now the archives might not be there much longer - he's spoken of going into an archive in Zambia where everything was decayed to vinegar smelling dust, and, of course, we all know about the film archive destroyed in Sierra Leone in 1999, and the church destroyed by terrorists in Joss when he was there.
That does not look good for finding missing episodes!
Also can anyone confirm the "Civil War wreaked Sierra Leone TV archive" story?
Look I want to see Africa, Singapore and Hong Kong looked into, especially for Marco Polo for example, I was only saying that other areas need looking into...
Anyway I hope he has found what we all want found in both Zambia and Etihopia and someone else looks into Hong Kong and Singapore...
Also what about TVB of Hong Kong, they bought a lot of 2nd Doctor era episodes and some 1st Doctor era episodes, now I am not sure how well they maintain their archives but they returned Tomb of the Cybermen, does anyone know if they kept the others as well...
OK can I correct this earler statement, it was not TVB that bought a lot of 2nd Doctor era episodes and some 1st Doctor era episodes for broadcast in Hong Kong, rather it was ATV (Asia Television) that did that, they then called Rediffusion Television at the time...
I love how he always says "THERE IS NO WAY ANYTHING ELSE WILL BE FOUND" and has been proven wrong on about three occasions now.
It is far too bold a statement. Personally I believe that all episodes exist in some form. The copies went somewhere, and contrary to popular belief foreign TV stations were not in the habit of junking copies. They may be in archives, they may have been stolen, they may have been moved, they may have been sent on and copies of the copies may even have been made. To say there is no chance of these coming back ever, is plain stupid.
Even if every single TV studio was swept, archives searched and tracking was made on all copies, you still have the home recording factor. Video recording wasn't as widespread back then, but it did happen, and Doctor Who was a big enough show by series 4 for it to be a show people would want to record. The age of the people recording these shows would have had to have been 40+ (or else they wouldn't have been able to afford expensive recording kit). So by the time the Internet generation came about they'd have been 80 / dead. Now, 90 / dead. They wouldn't be as aware of the missing episodes as someone younger. Lofts/garages may have missing episodes stashed in on random films, with new owners / children unaware of whats on them. It's possible you could buy a film from a car boot sale and have an episdoe of Power on it, and the owner was unaware of it.
Also can anyone confirm the "Civil War wreaked Sierra Leone TV archive" story?
There was an interesting post about this by Ssorg on the amazon forum last month:
"The alleged destruction of Sierra Leone's film store was exposed last year as a myth. Interestingly, it can be traced back to none other than Richard Molesworth in his Wiped! book and Paul Vanezis on the Missing Episodes Forum. Posters on GB and Planet Mondas found an official report on the Sierra Leone Broadcasting Corporation's own website which made it clear that what was destroyed was a sound archive and nothing to do with film. Further diligent research indicated that all film was kept in the broadcaster's headquarters which existed prior to 1999 and still stands.
A lot of the evidence for this was posted on the Missing Episodes Forum and was promptly deleted. Paul Vanezis was politely asked to explain the discrepances and failed to respond. And just for good measure, the link to the official report was taken down with similar promptness, suggesting that a contact was asked for a favour.
Anyone interested in seeing the evidence, including the official report, should join the Planet Mondas Forum because Jason Mahoney has it safely filed away."
The "episode hunters" are well aware of the importance of checking every location as thoroughly as possible; Morris' work in Africa is part of a larger effort to do so. A re-investigation of Singapore has already occurred in the past couple years; they had nothing. I can't find a specific statement that they've rechecked Hong Kong, but I'm sure if they haven't they'll do so when they can.
I saw that Sierra Leone "evidence" in real time; all it proved was that a sound archive was destroyed in the same year as the TV station's film store, not that one was somehow mistaken for the other by professionals in the archive TV world. Overexcited fans, the kind who mistake a few Google searches for "diligent research," then assumed that every act of destruction in a war-torn country would be described in English-language web results, and decided that the lack of a specific description of the film store's destruction meant that it never happened. Then the conspiracy theories kicked in.
If I remember correctly he has used digital spy before. Even if he wasn't a user insulting him is not constructive and adds nothing to the discussion.
Doesnt stop people on here slagging people on the telly off just because something happenned they didnt like. Bloody wrestling fans!
Ian I have respect for he found a lot of stories.
Preddle or as the fans call him PreddleGate, Steve Roberts & Paul Vaniez I dont have respect for the way they just spout all this untrue crap about rumours, get a free pardon on GB to say what they like yet others do it and they get banned but these jokers get preferencial treatment because of what they did.
Doesnt stop people on here slagging people on the telly off just because something happenned they didnt like. Bloody wrestling fans!
Ian I have respect for he found a lot of stories.
Preddle or as the fans call him PreddleGate, Steve Roberts & Paul Vaniez I dont have respect for the way they just spout all this untrue crap about rumours, get a free pardon on GB to say what they like yet others do it and they get banned but these jokers get preferencial treatment because of what they did.
It's still real to me damnit.
Paul Vanezis has previously claimed all the missing series 3 stories except MTTU/Daleks Master Plan were in Sierra Leone but were destroyed in 1999, presumably this would be hard to check given it's one of the most dangerous places on earth.
Doesnt stop people on here slagging people on the telly off just because something happenned they didnt like. Bloody wrestling fans!
Ian I have respect for he found a lot of stories.
Preddle or as the fans call him PreddleGate, Steve Roberts & Paul Vaniez I dont have respect for the way they just spout all this untrue crap about rumours, get a free pardon on GB to say what they like yet others do it and they get banned but these jokers get preferencial treatment because of what they did.
Steve Roberts has been head of the restoration team and has been in charge of restoring episodes for VHS and dvd since 92. He should be respected for the hard work he has done.
What would you rather have. Jon Steve and Paul say every fake rumour is true and then be disappointed when nothing gets announced.
The "episode hunters" are well aware of the importance of checking every location as thoroughly as possible; Morris' work in Africa is part of a larger effort to do so. A re-investigation of Singapore has already occurred in the past couple years; they had nothing. I can't find a specific statement that they've rechecked Hong Kong, but I'm sure if they haven't they'll do so when they can.
Hold on, when did they check Singapore and how do you know they did not find anything, we still do not know what they found in Zambia and Etihopia or if they found anything else in Nigeria (the prints they found for the recent find of 9 episodes came from Singapore).
Do you know if MediaCorp/TCS/RTS formally sent any Dr Who episodes back before 1977 or did they trash them themselves? They seem to be ok with tv archives but there was not too much info on the matter?
As for Hong Kong, well Asia Television did not trash at least some Dr Who episodes (they returned Tomb) and thus should be another area that should be looked into as soon as posibble considering they bought all the 2nd Dr Who episodes bar Power...
Do they have a e-mail address so I can contact them myself...
I saw that Sierra Leone "evidence" in real time; all it proved was that a sound archive was destroyed in the same year as the TV station's film store, not that one was somehow mistaken for the other by professionals in the archive TV world. Overexcited fans, the kind who mistake a few Google searches for "diligent research," then assumed that every act of destruction in a war-torn country would be described in English-language web results, and decided that the lack of a specific description of the film store's destruction meant that it never happened. Then the conspiracy theories kicked in.
I agree Google Researches are not good enough and it is better to visit the locations themsevles, my personal rule is that I don't take anything for word unless it is from the offical orgainsations, the rest I treat as rumours...
So can you answer the question once and for all, did the civil war damage the tv archive and what of the sound archive was damaged?
Comments
Seeing as that covers a period of almost 2 months, it isn't going away anytime soon.
Unless he is ;-)
If I remember correctly he has used digital spy before. Even if he wasn't a user insulting him is not constructive and adds nothing to the discussion.
Unless he is what? On here, or an absolute turnip?
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showpost.php?p=37499334&postcount=5
I love how he always says "THERE IS NO WAY ANYTHING ELSE WILL BE FOUND" and has been proven wrong on about three occasions now.
Speak to digital spy then since it breaks their terms and conditions. Insulting someone is not constructive and I would consider that you are making a "berk" of yourself that you suggest this sort of behaviour is acceptable. Unless you have some sort of social difficulty. If you have an issue with comments report them. Don't go on a Doctor Who forum and turn a thread into something that is used to insult people. And I would like to add I don't find Ian Levine's comments to be acceptable.
‘Christopher Barry died after a fall at home last week. Yet another example of someone who’ll never get to see what Phil Morris has held back.’
Personally after that statement i hope his version of Shada gets leaked onto YouTube.
Well I highly doubt Singapore would be as hard to deal with as lets say Nigeria becuase it is a developed and well managed company. However when Dr Who was broadcasting there it was what we would now call a emerging country. I am also not sure how well they archived their tv shows in the 60s and 70s, however the National Archives of Singapore does claim to have film and television material dating from that era.
The reason I have suggested Singapore is because they did buy every single 1st and 2nd Doctor Story apart from DMP and maybe Mission to the Unknown (it has been suggested they where the only overseas buyer of that episode).
According to the Destruction of Time Blog, here is a list of missing episodes they "might" have retained(i.e. they did not send them on to other broadcasters or back to the BBC), in other words they are listed as "fate unknown":
The Reign of Terror
Galaxy 4
The Myth Makers
The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve
The Celestial Toymaker
The Savages
The Smugglers
The Tenth Planet
The Power of the Daleks
The Highlanders
The Underwater Menace
The Moonbase
The Macra Terror
The Faceless Ones
The Evil of the Daleks
The Ice Warriors
Fury from the Deep
RTS did not retain some of them of them (such as Marco Polo) and sent them to other broadcasters, but the 5 out of 6 Web of Fear episodes and and the Enemy of the World episodes (which where one of the few RTS sent overseas) found in Nigeria did come from Singapore, so if they where kept as well as well as the Nigerian prints and they did not bother returning them or trashing them, there might be some finds over there...
Why could they have not gone to Singapore itself considering that is nothing like parts of Africa in terms of access and Mediacorp did not use the RTS name since 1980 so why refer to it as such?
Philip Morris had done a good job so far but why did he not start with Singapore, if I was looking for missing Dr Who episodes, that would be a very good place to start...
Do you read some of his Tweets? Some of the things he has said to fans and members of the production crew of Who have been downright abhorrent and needlessly personal.
I don't like the bloke because of his ill treatment of people and awful behaviour. I'm not apologising for that.
Thank you.
It's stuff like this that I feel I am justified in not liking the bloke.
Some fans need to stop sucking up/enabling that man's awful behaviour.
He's got more contacts and whatnot in Africa, plus that's where the paper trail had the most promising leads. Also, if he doesn't do it now the archives might not be there much longer - he's spoken of going into an archive in Zambia where everything was decayed to vinegar smelling dust, and, of course, we all know about the film archive destroyed in Sierra Leone in 1999, and the church destroyed by terrorists in Joss when he was there.
Also can anyone confirm the "Civil War wreaked Sierra Leone TV archive" story?
Look I want to see Africa, Singapore and Hong Kong looked into, especially for Marco Polo for example, I was only saying that other areas need looking into...
Anyway I hope he has found what we all want found in both Zambia and Etihopia and someone else looks into Hong Kong and Singapore...
OK can I correct this earler statement, it was not TVB that bought a lot of 2nd Doctor era episodes and some 1st Doctor era episodes for broadcast in Hong Kong, rather it was ATV (Asia Television) that did that, they then called Rediffusion Television at the time...
It is far too bold a statement. Personally I believe that all episodes exist in some form. The copies went somewhere, and contrary to popular belief foreign TV stations were not in the habit of junking copies. They may be in archives, they may have been stolen, they may have been moved, they may have been sent on and copies of the copies may even have been made. To say there is no chance of these coming back ever, is plain stupid.
Even if every single TV studio was swept, archives searched and tracking was made on all copies, you still have the home recording factor. Video recording wasn't as widespread back then, but it did happen, and Doctor Who was a big enough show by series 4 for it to be a show people would want to record. The age of the people recording these shows would have had to have been 40+ (or else they wouldn't have been able to afford expensive recording kit). So by the time the Internet generation came about they'd have been 80 / dead. Now, 90 / dead. They wouldn't be as aware of the missing episodes as someone younger. Lofts/garages may have missing episodes stashed in on random films, with new owners / children unaware of whats on them. It's possible you could buy a film from a car boot sale and have an episdoe of Power on it, and the owner was unaware of it.
Never say never.
There was an interesting post about this by Ssorg on the amazon forum last month:
"The alleged destruction of Sierra Leone's film store was exposed last year as a myth. Interestingly, it can be traced back to none other than Richard Molesworth in his Wiped! book and Paul Vanezis on the Missing Episodes Forum. Posters on GB and Planet Mondas found an official report on the Sierra Leone Broadcasting Corporation's own website which made it clear that what was destroyed was a sound archive and nothing to do with film. Further diligent research indicated that all film was kept in the broadcaster's headquarters which existed prior to 1999 and still stands.
A lot of the evidence for this was posted on the Missing Episodes Forum and was promptly deleted. Paul Vanezis was politely asked to explain the discrepances and failed to respond. And just for good measure, the link to the official report was taken down with similar promptness, suggesting that a contact was asked for a favour.
Anyone interested in seeing the evidence, including the official report, should join the Planet Mondas Forum because Jason Mahoney has it safely filed away."
I saw that Sierra Leone "evidence" in real time; all it proved was that a sound archive was destroyed in the same year as the TV station's film store, not that one was somehow mistaken for the other by professionals in the archive TV world. Overexcited fans, the kind who mistake a few Google searches for "diligent research," then assumed that every act of destruction in a war-torn country would be described in English-language web results, and decided that the lack of a specific description of the film store's destruction meant that it never happened. Then the conspiracy theories kicked in.
Doesnt stop people on here slagging people on the telly off just because something happenned they didnt like. Bloody wrestling fans!
Ian I have respect for he found a lot of stories.
Preddle or as the fans call him PreddleGate, Steve Roberts & Paul Vaniez I dont have respect for the way they just spout all this untrue crap about rumours, get a free pardon on GB to say what they like yet others do it and they get banned but these jokers get preferencial treatment because of what they did.
It's still real to me damnit.
Paul Vanezis has previously claimed all the missing series 3 stories except MTTU/Daleks Master Plan were in Sierra Leone but were destroyed in 1999, presumably this would be hard to check given it's one of the most dangerous places on earth.
Steve Roberts has been head of the restoration team and has been in charge of restoring episodes for VHS and dvd since 92. He should be respected for the hard work he has done.
What would you rather have. Jon Steve and Paul say every fake rumour is true and then be disappointed when nothing gets announced.
Hold on, when did they check Singapore and how do you know they did not find anything, we still do not know what they found in Zambia and Etihopia or if they found anything else in Nigeria (the prints they found for the recent find of 9 episodes came from Singapore).
Do you know if MediaCorp/TCS/RTS formally sent any Dr Who episodes back before 1977 or did they trash them themselves? They seem to be ok with tv archives but there was not too much info on the matter?
As for Hong Kong, well Asia Television did not trash at least some Dr Who episodes (they returned Tomb) and thus should be another area that should be looked into as soon as posibble considering they bought all the 2nd Dr Who episodes bar Power...
Do they have a e-mail address so I can contact them myself...
I agree Google Researches are not good enough and it is better to visit the locations themsevles, my personal rule is that I don't take anything for word unless it is from the offical orgainsations, the rest I treat as rumours...
So can you answer the question once and for all, did the civil war damage the tv archive and what of the sound archive was damaged?