Too late for April 1st otherwise this maintenance period could have been described as a Digital Switch Over event.
No more analogue time from this weekend. Two digital times to replace it -- Freetime which is, er, free but you can only select 22 different clock checks (including Time +1). And Skytime -- up to 235 different times for only 600 quid a year, with adverts.
Too late for April 1st otherwise this maintenance period could have been described as a Digital Switch Over event.
No more analogue time from this weekend. Two digital times to replace it -- Freetime which is, er, free but you can only select 22 different clock checks (including Time +1). And Skytime -- up to 235 different times for only 600 quid a year, with adverts.
GTS is still available, the delay on MW, LW and VHF FM is insignificant for normal use. Why do people need higher precision than that around the home? Any professional user needing accurate time will almost certainly be using GPS.
One of my PCs is used for tracking aircraft and does need a very accurate time setting so I have it regularly set its clock online automatically.
I know they've given no time for restoration tonight, but the 8.00 p.m. on Friday they mention is UTC, which is 9.00 p.m. BST, so maybe that is the time they will put it on tonight.
Although how are they supposed to know what time it is after the transmitter broadcasting the time signal has been off for so long?
Well, it's gone 9pm & still no sync with either of my two devices.
It'll probably only come on for about 30 mins in the middle of the night or something, seeing as they haven't specified exactly when it will be on tonight and over the next few nights. Ideally, the signal needs to be on for at least 3 hours, to allow clocks that only check the signal once every few hours to pick it up.
I have several radio controlled clocks and they seem to be slowly drifting apart from each other (only by a matter of seconds of course). The main issue here though - as others have stated - that people buying new radio controlled clocks would think they're faulty.
Also, it's madness that they switched the signal off the day after the clocks go forward. Plenty of radio controlled clocks may take a day or two to update if they don't have a very good signal.
I still fail to understand what can possibly require the thing to be off-air for so long, when it's only been in operation at the new site for less than 5 years. If this was broadcast radio or TV there would have been public outrage by now!
They've not even kept to their stated work schedule -> "The service is expected to be off-air continuously until the evening of Tuesday 3 April, then to be off-air during the daytime only on Wednesday 4 April to Friday 6 April, and normal operation restored from the Friday evening."
Maybe they're running it at low-power on the evenings between now and the 6th? Although that'd be a bit futile as it'd surely mean that only people nearest the mast would pick up the signal.
I still fail to understand what can possibly require the thing to be off-air for so long, when it's only been in operation at the new site for less than 5 years. If this was broadcast radio or TV there would have been public outrage by now! ...
But people watch broadcast radio TV and listen to radio, both long periods. MSF is only used by most clocks for a few minutes each night and the clock will continue to operate the rest of the time within a quite tolerable range for domestic use of a few seconds.
Most people will not notice the loss of service unless they taken the batteries out of their clock, most clocks can be set manually - my old Junghans MSF clock is an exception!
Looking at next year's schedule there are the normal short outages so this year must be some major work going on. Perhaps they would have been better to delay it a few weeks to be clear or the GMT/BST change and explain what they are doing but people seem to be getting worked up about nothing important.
The service is expected to be off-air continuously until the evening of Wednesday 4 April, then to be off-air during the daytime only on Thursday 5 April to Friday 6 April, with normal operation restored from the Friday evening.
Well they certainly forgot to update it last night!
Unlikely as the transmitter is operated by a contractor so the NPL will want them to comply with the terms of their contract. The website refers to safety reasons which suggests probably mast work. Safety always comes first and it could well be unsafe to work to work in high winds and snow - perhaps some of the people worrying about their alarm clocks being a few seconds out would like to try it?
Unlikely as the transmitter is operated by a contractor so the NPL will want them to comply with the terms of their contract. The website refers to safety reasons which suggests probably mast work. Safety always comes first and it could well be unsafe to work to work in high winds and snow - perhaps some of the people worrying about their alarm clocks being a few seconds out would like to try it?
What's the problem with the public being kept up to date? If there was work being done which was expected to be completed yesterday and it became clear that this would not be possible, why was it beyond them to arrange for the information on the website to be updated?
I'd say that the explanation I offered - that they forgot, or couldn't be bothered - is quite likely to be correct.
Have sent an email to NPL asking them what the situation is.
Got this reply this morning, Just repeats what the website says plus a little more info, doesn't explain why it didn't come on last night though.
The MSF service is off-air from Monday 26 Mar until Friday 6 April for
maintenance work at Anthorn radio station. The service could not be
restored overnight during most of this period as the major task is to
repair the roof of the Antenna Tuning Hut, which involves dismantling
the feed to the antenna. Based on the expected rate of progress and the
weather forecast for the next several days, Babcock expect the service
to be off-air continuously until Wednesday evening (4 April), then to be
off-air during the daytime only on Thursday and Friday (5-6 April), with
normal operation restored from the Friday evening.
The timing of the maintenance work at Anthorn is subject to tight
constraints as there are other services operated from the Anthorn site.
This particular period proved to be the only time during the year that
Babcock were able to schedule them all to be off-air at the same time to
permit major maintenance work. We were aware of the potential
difficulties caused by the MSF outage starting so close to the daylight
saving time change, and arranged for Babcock to increase the MSF
transmitter power for several hours on both the Saturday (24/25 March)
and Sunday (25/26 March) nights to ensure that as many MSF clocks as
possible changed correctly to BST. The power increase was from 27 kW to
45 kW, and lasted for 4.5 hours on the Saturday night and 6 hours on the
Sunday night.
Got this reply this morning, Just repeats what the website says plus a little more info, doesn't explain why it didn't come on last night though.
The MSF service is off-air from Monday 26 Mar until Friday 6 April for
maintenance work at Anthorn radio station. The service could not be
restored overnight during most of this period as the major task is to
repair the roof of the Antenna Tuning Hut, which involves dismantling
the feed to the antenna. Based on the expected rate of progress and the
weather forecast for the next several days, Babcock expect the service
to be off-air continuously until Wednesday evening (4 April), then to be
off-air during the daytime only on Thursday and Friday (5-6 April), with
normal operation restored from the Friday evening.
The timing of the maintenance work at Anthorn is subject to tight
constraints as there are other services operated from the Anthorn site.
This particular period proved to be the only time during the year that
Babcock were able to schedule them all to be off-air at the same time to
permit major maintenance work. We were aware of the potential
difficulties caused by the MSF outage starting so close to the daylight
saving time change, and arranged for Babcock to increase the MSF
transmitter power for several hours on both the Saturday (24/25 March)
and Sunday (25/26 March) nights to ensure that as many MSF clocks as
possible changed correctly to BST. The power increase was from 27 kW to
45 kW, and lasted for 4.5 hours on the Saturday night and 6 hours on the
Sunday night.
Thanks buseng, for posting the reply you received. If the above (full) message, giving reasons for the loss of signal, had been shown on their website, I'm sure we would have been more sympathetic about the outage. Especially this part -> "The service could not be restored overnight during most of this period as the major task is to repair the roof of the Antenna Tuning Hut, which involves dismantling the feed to the antenna."
Thanks buseng, for posting the reply you received. If the above message, giving reasons for the loss of signal, had been shown on their website, I'm sure we would have been more sympathetic about the outage.
Chris.
I must be blind! Just re-read the reply, it says it is off air continuesly until tonight (Wednesday). Will see what happens.
I must be blind! Just re-read the reply, it says it is off air continuesly until tonight (Wednesday). Will see what happens.
It wasn't changed until this morning. Yesterday their website said "until Tuesday 3rd April" Today it says "until Wednesday 4th April". As you say, we'll see what happens. It's an even worse day today (weather wise) than it was yesterday!
It wasn't changed until this morning. Yesterday their website said "until Tuesday 3rd April" Today it says "until Wednesday 4th April". As you say, we'll see what happens. It's an even worse day today (weather wise) than it was yesterday!
It wasn't changed until this morning. Yesterday their website said "until Tuesday 3rd April" Today it says "until Wednesday 4th April". As you say, we'll see what happens. It's an even worse day today (weather wise) than it was yesterday!
We were aware of the potential
difficulties caused by the MSF outage starting so close to the daylight
saving time change, and arranged for Babcock to increase the MSF
transmitter power for several hours on both the Saturday (24/25 March)
and Sunday (25/26 March) nights to ensure that as many MSF clocks as
possible changed correctly to BST. The power increase was from 27 kW to
45 kW, and lasted for 4.5 hours on the Saturday night and 6 hours on the
Sunday night.[/B]
Well that ties in with my earlier post about it being the first time since the move from Rugby that all (7) of my devices updated during the night (rather than having to be moved to a window on the Sunday).
Perhaps they could compromise and push out 36kw permanently to give us decent coverage?
Comments
No more analogue time from this weekend. Two digital times to replace it -- Freetime which is, er, free but you can only select 22 different clock checks (including Time +1). And Skytime -- up to 235 different times for only 600 quid a year, with adverts.
GTS is still available, the delay on MW, LW and VHF FM is insignificant for normal use. Why do people need higher precision than that around the home? Any professional user needing accurate time will almost certainly be using GPS.
One of my PCs is used for tracking aircraft and does need a very accurate time setting so I have it regularly set its clock online automatically.
Well, it's gone 9pm & still no sync with either of my two devices.
No, I just 'forced' one of mine to search for a signal and no luck so far.
I have several radio controlled clocks and they seem to be slowly drifting apart from each other (only by a matter of seconds of course). The main issue here though - as others have stated - that people buying new radio controlled clocks would think they're faulty.
Also, it's madness that they switched the signal off the day after the clocks go forward. Plenty of radio controlled clocks may take a day or two to update if they don't have a very good signal.
Bad timing for my wall clock battery to die.
They've not even kept to their stated work schedule -> "The service is expected to be off-air continuously until the evening of Tuesday 3 April, then to be off-air during the daytime only on Wednesday 4 April to Friday 6 April, and normal operation restored from the Friday evening."
I can't see any service being resumed tonight!
Chris.
But people watch broadcast radio TV and listen to radio, both long periods. MSF is only used by most clocks for a few minutes each night and the clock will continue to operate the rest of the time within a quite tolerable range for domestic use of a few seconds.
Most people will not notice the loss of service unless they taken the batteries out of their clock, most clocks can be set manually - my old Junghans MSF clock is an exception!
Looking at next year's schedule there are the normal short outages so this year must be some major work going on. Perhaps they would have been better to delay it a few weeks to be clear or the GMT/BST change and explain what they are doing but people seem to be getting worked up about nothing important.
Perhaps yesterdays snow caused a delay?
Or perhaps they just forgot all about what they'd posted on their website.
Well they certainly forgot to update it last night!
Unlikely as the transmitter is operated by a contractor so the NPL will want them to comply with the terms of their contract. The website refers to safety reasons which suggests probably mast work. Safety always comes first and it could well be unsafe to work to work in high winds and snow - perhaps some of the people worrying about their alarm clocks being a few seconds out would like to try it?
What's the problem with the public being kept up to date? If there was work being done which was expected to be completed yesterday and it became clear that this would not be possible, why was it beyond them to arrange for the information on the website to be updated?
I'd say that the explanation I offered - that they forgot, or couldn't be bothered - is quite likely to be correct.
Got this reply this morning, Just repeats what the website says plus a little more info, doesn't explain why it didn't come on last night though.
The MSF service is off-air from Monday 26 Mar until Friday 6 April for
maintenance work at Anthorn radio station. The service could not be
restored overnight during most of this period as the major task is to
repair the roof of the Antenna Tuning Hut, which involves dismantling
the feed to the antenna. Based on the expected rate of progress and the
weather forecast for the next several days, Babcock expect the service
to be off-air continuously until Wednesday evening (4 April), then to be
off-air during the daytime only on Thursday and Friday (5-6 April), with
normal operation restored from the Friday evening.
The timing of the maintenance work at Anthorn is subject to tight
constraints as there are other services operated from the Anthorn site.
This particular period proved to be the only time during the year that
Babcock were able to schedule them all to be off-air at the same time to
permit major maintenance work. We were aware of the potential
difficulties caused by the MSF outage starting so close to the daylight
saving time change, and arranged for Babcock to increase the MSF
transmitter power for several hours on both the Saturday (24/25 March)
and Sunday (25/26 March) nights to ensure that as many MSF clocks as
possible changed correctly to BST. The power increase was from 27 kW to
45 kW, and lasted for 4.5 hours on the Saturday night and 6 hours on the
Sunday night.
Thanks buseng, for posting the reply you received. If the above (full) message, giving reasons for the loss of signal, had been shown on their website, I'm sure we would have been more sympathetic about the outage. Especially this part -> "The service could not be restored overnight during most of this period as the major task is to repair the roof of the Antenna Tuning Hut, which involves dismantling the feed to the antenna."
Chris.
I must be blind! Just re-read the reply, it says it is off air continuesly until tonight (Wednesday). Will see what happens.
It wasn't changed until this morning. Yesterday their website said "until Tuesday 3rd April" Today it says "until Wednesday 4th April". As you say, we'll see what happens. It's an even worse day today (weather wise) than it was yesterday!
Chris.
It looks dry on the Cumbrian coast today.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/radar/
So it was.
http://www.npl.co.uk/science-technology/time-frequency/time/products-and-services/msf-outages
But 24 mph winds with 40 mph gusts
Well that ties in with my earlier post about it being the first time since the move from Rugby that all (7) of my devices updated during the night (rather than having to be moved to a window on the Sunday).
Perhaps they could compromise and push out 36kw permanently to give us decent coverage?