Michael Jackson and his family, Prince, Beyonce, Jay-Z, P-Diddy, 50 Cent, 50% of the black eyed peas, Denzel Washington, Jamie Foxx, Chris Rock, Bill Cosby, Richard Prior, Eddie Murphy, Thandie Newton, Halle Berry, Queen Latifah and many many more are all oppressed and suffering. That is why we must have these awards.
But we're not all mainstream, because of the discrimination from the past. If I have a 50m headstart, then you have a lot of catching up to do. I take it you're talking just about the entertainment industry? Who is on the decision committees for the grammys, the emmys and the Oscars. It is still dominated by relatively old white men.
I do believe that progress is being made constantly, but there is still a long way to go.
Exactly. Too many people think that because we no longer have slavery and regular lynchings, then everything's hunky-dory. It isn't. It's a million times better than it USED to be, but whatever happened to striving for perfection?
Michael Jackson and his family, Prince, Beyonce, Jay-Z, P-Diddy, 50 Cent, 50% of the black eyed peas, Denzel Washington, Jamie Foxx, Chris Rock, Bill Cosby, Richard Prior, Eddie Murphy, Thandie Newton, Halle Berry, Queen Latifah and many many more are all oppressed and suffering. That is why we must have these awards.
...because the rich are always representative of everyone else who's the same colour as them, right?
But we're not all mainstream, because of the discrimination from the past. If I have a 50m headstart, then you have a lot of catching up to do. I take it you're talking just about the entertainment industry? Who is on the decision committees for the grammys, the emmys and the Oscars. It is still dominated by relatively old white men.
I do believe that progress is being made constantly, but there is still a long way to go.
I think that some black people default to a position where they almost expect to be discriminated against automatically, even where the walls and barriers have already long been demolished.
Although I do agree with you that I'm saying that from a white person's perspective, which is obviously different. It can be very difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. But I honestly do think discrimination has diminished massively in the last 15 to 20 years.
No doubt I'll be accused of being "ignorant" again, but as I've said before, you can only call it as you see it, and I do see massive improvements.
Is Chinese News Channels? Zee TV? DIVA channel for women, press tv
BET is a medium to make money, which it does but at the same time it allows the people to express their culture, i love reggae but am never able to see artists like sizzla on tv
people that are saying that because obama is president the world is no longer rascist are not thinking straight, facts do not back that up
I think that some black people default to a position where they almost expect to be discriminated against automatically, even where the walls and barriers have already long been demolished.
Although I do agree with you that I'm saying that from a white person's perspective, which is obviously different. It can be very difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. But I honestly do think discrimination has diminished massively in the last 15 to 20 years.
No doubt I'll be accused of being "ignorant" again, but as I've said before, you can only call it as you see it, and I do see massive improvements.
But you know, there are people of all ethnicities who feel they are being discriminated against, when actually in many cases they are not.
There have undoubtedly been massive improvements for minorities and previously discriminated against groups (blacks, gays, disabled, women etc), but there is still a long way to go. They were discriminated against for several centuries, it's going to take a bit of time to get the balance right.
I think that some black people default to a position where they almost expect to be discriminated against automatically, even where the walls and barriers have already long been demolished.
See, that's where I'd disagree. They've got big f*cking holes in them, and aren't that structurally sound anymore, but I don't think they've been demolished yet.
Although I do agree with you that I'm saying that from a white person's perspective, which is obviously different. It can be very difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. But I honestly do think discrimination has diminished massively in the last 15 to 20 years.
No doubt I'll be accused of being "ignorant" again, but as I've said before, you can only call it as you see it, and I do see massive improvements.
Here, I'd agree. But "massive improvements" doesn't mean the job's done. We've made massive improvements in the way our country's governed since the Dark Ages, but it's still not quite right, is it? The massive improvements are something to be applauded, but let's not rest on our laurels. Life can ALWAYS be better for everyone- should we quit trying to make it happen just because it was worse thirty years ago? Maybe, but that's not how I roll.
Try being black or any other racial minority then you'll know why.
How would you do that, wear black-face or pull on the corners of your eyes? Surely you'd then be labeled a racist and ostracized by the offended minorities... out loud publicly and to your face that is.
They were hugely mainstream. They had umpteen artists in the charts all the time.
There were not many music tv programmes, but they were constantly on the chart shows, and variety shows.
The Jacksons came out of that stable, and were very big too, but Michael made it to another level.
Yes, they were:
Smokey (wiki):
Into the '60s, I was still not of a frame of mind that we were not only making music, we were making history. But I did recognize the impact because acts were going all over the world at that time. I recognized the bridges that we crossed, the racial problems and the barriers that we broke down with music. I recognized that because I lived it. I would come to the South in the early days of Motown and the audiences would be segregated. Then they started to get the Motown music and we would go back and the audiences were integrated and the kids were dancing together and holding hands
Wiki
From 1961 to 1971, Motown had 110 top 10 hits, and artists such as Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Diana Ross & The Supremes, The Four Tops, and The Jackson 5, were all signed to Motown labels. The Under the slogan "The Sound of Young America", Motown's acts were enjoying widespread popularity among black and white audiences alike.
But, obviously, there's still some way to go, not only with race issues, as some of the language used by so-called liberal people against the two women in the presidential race last year demonstrated.
Isn't the whole MTV thing a red herring, MTV started as a Rock orientated station other than Phil Lynott and Jimmy Hendrix I'm not sure I can name any "Black" rock musicians from the 80s or before (I wonder if Thin Lizzy and Hendrix got played or not), MJ only got airplay on MTV because he had Eddie Van Halen playing rock riffs and solos on his songs. A lot of "White" artists never got air play on MTV either despite Country being one of the if not the biggest selling music genre in the US at the time.
Having seen Fox's speech I think he come across as very aggressive. MJ was attacked many times by other black artists who accused him of dyeing his skin white and rejecting his race and now many of those same artists are trying to claim him as one of their own? Very hypocritical. It's also damn arrogant to make this into a race issue. The reason MJ was so popular is because he seemed to see people as just people and race wasn't an issue, in fact he mentioned that is a number of his songs. I don't think he would have appreciated being used in this way to make a racial and political statement.
Isn't the whole MTV thing a red herring, MTV started as a Rock orientated station other than Phil Lynott and Jimmy Hendrix I'm not sure I can name any "Black" rock musicians from the 80s or before (I wonder if Thin Lizzy and Hendrix got played or not), MJ only got airplay on MTV because he had Eddie Van Halen playing rock riffs and solos on his songs. A lot of "White" artists never got air play on MTV either despite Country being one of the if not the biggest selling music genre in the US at the time.
Isn't the whole MTV thing a red herring, MTV started as a Rock orientated station other than Phil Lynott and Jimmy Hendrix I'm not sure I can name any "Black" rock musicians from the 80s or before (I wonder if Thin Lizzy and Hendrix got played or not), MJ only got airplay on MTV because he had Eddie Van Halen playing rock riffs and solos on his songs. A lot of "White" artists never got air play on MTV either despite Country being one of the if not the biggest selling music genre in the US at the time.
Probably not. Didn't MTV only play music that had videos? That's how MJ really got his superstar status, he realised how important videos were becoming and took them to the extreme. Whether that was down to genius or happy coincidence is hard to tell.
Probably not. Didn't MTV only play music that had videos? That's how MJ really got his superstar status, he realised how important videos were becoming and took them to the extreme. Whether that was down to genius or happy coincidence is hard to tell.
Management, essentially. And it's an industry that only promotes people to get a buck from them (well, it's Capitalism, isn't it?), but occasionally it judges the zeitgeist well enough to both (inadvertently) help AND profit from it... and at the time, more black people on telly was the way things were going. And whether it was him, or his agent, or him making a wise CHOICE of agent, it worked.
As I say, Jackson meant very little to me- not my kind of music, and I wasn't part of his oppressed minority, so as a teenager it didn't really seem like an issue, teenagers being selfish c*nts... but with hindsight, it's all part of a bigger picture, and he played an important part, whether knowingly or not, in an ongoing process. Whether he was symptomatic of, or instrumental in that process, I have no idea. But he was definitely part of it.
Black Americans are the underdogs, it's why electing a black President is such a big thing in the US, something most of them never believed they would see in their lifetimes.
MJ was the first black American to truly crossover into all the various US music charts, topping them all. Rock, as well as pop, soul and dance. His success was a powerful statement of racial equality long before the Oval Office.
But it is ironic that he is lauded as a black man, which he still was, when his appearance due to pale skin and rhinoplasty was that of a white man.
So the equivalent would need for JT to have darkened his skin, perhaps due to freckles all over, and grown an afro, and then old Tom leads the tributes to this great 'white' hope.
Black Americans are the underdogs, it's why electing a black President is such a big thing in the US, something most of them never believed they would see in their lifetimes.
MJ was the first black American to truly crossover into all the various US music charts, topping them all. Rock, as well as pop, soul and dance. His success was a powerful statement of racial equality long before the Oval Office.
But it is ironic that he is lauded as a black man, which he still was, when his appearance due to pale skin and rhinoplasty was that of a white man.
So the equivalent would need for JT to have darkened his skin, perhaps due to freckles all over, and grown an afro, and then old Tom leads the tributes to this great 'white' hope.
I think that's true, irrespective of his ACTUAL visible skin colour. Popular culture often goes ahead of what's generally considered "culture"- partly it moves faster, and partly it's largely the preserve of the young, who pick up on sh*t quicker than the rest of us. I know it's embarrassing for everyone when politicians try to reference popular culture, but... in this day and age, they at least need to KNOW about it.
Music was far ahead of politicians in the civil rights movement. And I'm willing to bet that people listen to music, on average, a lot more than they listen to politicians.
What about Diana Ross, and all those Motown artists in the 60s. They were very mainstream.
So mainstream that in record stores in the South, they couldn't appear on the album covers because the owners wouldn't stock them if they were. So mainstream that they couldn't enter the front doors of the venues they were headlining, eat in the resturants, use the guest lifts or the swimming pool. So mainstream that white artists were used to cover the music so it would sell. Ignorance truly is bliss.
Why would there need to be a white entertainment awards? It wasn't too long ago Rosa Parks decided to stick it to racist America, "I have a dream" and racist language coming to be seen as offensive. Having awards for black people isn't racist, it's representative of the progress we have made. and it isn't over, because racism is still an issue although the changes and the progress made IS extremely significant and better. I don't understand why people don't understand why they can't have "white" awards, and why black awards and certain black things are necessary.
I wish it wasn't black/white and making ovbious divides between colour. but while racism exists and I suspect it will for a very, very long time to come, it is necessary. It is not a negative thing, it's a positive one, because it's a celebration of history and culture and the future.
So mainstream that in record stores in the South, they couldn't appear on the album covers because the owners wouldn't stock them if they were. So mainstream that they couldn't enter the front doors of the venues they were headlining, eat in the resturants, use the guest lifts or the swimming pool. So mainstream that white artists were used to cover the music so it would sell. Ignorance truly is bliss.
Let's not forget that Night Of The Living Dead (on of the greatest horror movies of all time imho, and one which also commented on racial issues) had a limited release in the South because the protagonist was black. That was 1968. A movie made by a white guy. People didn't like the fact that the black guy was the hero.
I think that some black people default to a position where they almost expect to be discriminated against automatically, even where the walls and barriers have already long been demolished.
Although I do agree with you that I'm saying that from a white person's perspective, which is obviously different. It can be very difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. But I honestly do think discrimination has diminished massively in the last 15 to 20 years.
No doubt I'll be accused of being "ignorant" again, but as I've said before, you can only call it as you see it, and I do see massive improvements.
They haven't been demolished.
Racism is here for a long time yet,i don't think any of us living will see it end,may'be those 50 to 100 years from now will see the great change that needs to happen.When colour is no longer even relevant.
You can still be killed in the street just for being black.
At the moment we are heading back the way,not forward,the rise of the right wing in europe is a sign that people want to march back to the 1930s,they haven't learned a thing,our best period of stability may soon be over.
The minorities as usual are taking the blame for all the wrong in the world,the bankers are free of blame.
Racism is here for a long time yet,i don't think any of us living will see it end,may'be those 50 to 100 years from now will see the great change that needs to happen.When colour is no longer even relevant.
You can still be killed in the street just for being black.
At the moment we are heading back the way,not forward,the rise of the right wing in europe is a sign that people want to march back to the 1930s,they haven't learned a thing,our best period of stability may soon be over.
The minorities as usual are taking the blame for all the wrong in the world,the bankers are free of blame.
You can be killed on the street for being any race.
Comments
Exactly. Too many people think that because we no longer have slavery and regular lynchings, then everything's hunky-dory. It isn't. It's a million times better than it USED to be, but whatever happened to striving for perfection?
...because the rich are always representative of everyone else who's the same colour as them, right?
I think that some black people default to a position where they almost expect to be discriminated against automatically, even where the walls and barriers have already long been demolished.
Although I do agree with you that I'm saying that from a white person's perspective, which is obviously different. It can be very difficult to put yourself in the other person's shoes. But I honestly do think discrimination has diminished massively in the last 15 to 20 years.
No doubt I'll be accused of being "ignorant" again, but as I've said before, you can only call it as you see it, and I do see massive improvements.
BET is a medium to make money, which it does but at the same time it allows the people to express their culture, i love reggae but am never able to see artists like sizzla on tv
people that are saying that because obama is president the world is no longer rascist are not thinking straight, facts do not back that up
But you know, there are people of all ethnicities who feel they are being discriminated against, when actually in many cases they are not.
There have undoubtedly been massive improvements for minorities and previously discriminated against groups (blacks, gays, disabled, women etc), but there is still a long way to go. They were discriminated against for several centuries, it's going to take a bit of time to get the balance right.
See, that's where I'd disagree. They've got big f*cking holes in them, and aren't that structurally sound anymore, but I don't think they've been demolished yet.
Here, I'd agree. But "massive improvements" doesn't mean the job's done. We've made massive improvements in the way our country's governed since the Dark Ages, but it's still not quite right, is it? The massive improvements are something to be applauded, but let's not rest on our laurels. Life can ALWAYS be better for everyone- should we quit trying to make it happen just because it was worse thirty years ago? Maybe, but that's not how I roll.
How would you do that, wear black-face or pull on the corners of your eyes? Surely you'd then be labeled a racist and ostracized by the offended minorities... out loud publicly and to your face that is.
Smokey (wiki):
But, obviously, there's still some way to go, not only with race issues, as some of the language used by so-called liberal people against the two women in the presidential race last year demonstrated.
Soooouuuul Train!
http://www.youtube.com/user/soultrain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_Train
Probably not. Didn't MTV only play music that had videos? That's how MJ really got his superstar status, he realised how important videos were becoming and took them to the extreme. Whether that was down to genius or happy coincidence is hard to tell.
Management, essentially. And it's an industry that only promotes people to get a buck from them (well, it's Capitalism, isn't it?), but occasionally it judges the zeitgeist well enough to both (inadvertently) help AND profit from it... and at the time, more black people on telly was the way things were going. And whether it was him, or his agent, or him making a wise CHOICE of agent, it worked.
As I say, Jackson meant very little to me- not my kind of music, and I wasn't part of his oppressed minority, so as a teenager it didn't really seem like an issue, teenagers being selfish c*nts... but with hindsight, it's all part of a bigger picture, and he played an important part, whether knowingly or not, in an ongoing process. Whether he was symptomatic of, or instrumental in that process, I have no idea. But he was definitely part of it.
MJ was the first black American to truly crossover into all the various US music charts, topping them all. Rock, as well as pop, soul and dance. His success was a powerful statement of racial equality long before the Oval Office.
But it is ironic that he is lauded as a black man, which he still was, when his appearance due to pale skin and rhinoplasty was that of a white man.
So the equivalent would need for JT to have darkened his skin, perhaps due to freckles all over, and grown an afro, and then old Tom leads the tributes to this great 'white' hope.
I think that's true, irrespective of his ACTUAL visible skin colour. Popular culture often goes ahead of what's generally considered "culture"- partly it moves faster, and partly it's largely the preserve of the young, who pick up on sh*t quicker than the rest of us. I know it's embarrassing for everyone when politicians try to reference popular culture, but... in this day and age, they at least need to KNOW about it.
Music was far ahead of politicians in the civil rights movement. And I'm willing to bet that people listen to music, on average, a lot more than they listen to politicians.
So mainstream that in record stores in the South, they couldn't appear on the album covers because the owners wouldn't stock them if they were. So mainstream that they couldn't enter the front doors of the venues they were headlining, eat in the resturants, use the guest lifts or the swimming pool. So mainstream that white artists were used to cover the music so it would sell. Ignorance truly is bliss.
I wish it wasn't black/white and making ovbious divides between colour. but while racism exists and I suspect it will for a very, very long time to come, it is necessary. It is not a negative thing, it's a positive one, because it's a celebration of history and culture and the future.
Let's not forget that Night Of The Living Dead (on of the greatest horror movies of all time imho, and one which also commented on racial issues) had a limited release in the South because the protagonist was black. That was 1968. A movie made by a white guy. People didn't like the fact that the black guy was the hero.
A Black man is now the most powerful man in the world.
In what way is he the underdog?
Did you actually bother READING the thread?
For f*ck's sake, if you want people to give a sh*t about your opinion, the least you can do is read theirs as well.
tl;dr- HE's not the underdog. He's the POTUS. But nobody else IS the POTUS, so it's kind of hard to generalise from that specific example.
FFS.
They haven't been demolished.
Racism is here for a long time yet,i don't think any of us living will see it end,may'be those 50 to 100 years from now will see the great change that needs to happen.When colour is no longer even relevant.
You can still be killed in the street just for being black.
At the moment we are heading back the way,not forward,the rise of the right wing in europe is a sign that people want to march back to the 1930s,they haven't learned a thing,our best period of stability may soon be over.
The minorities as usual are taking the blame for all the wrong in the world,the bankers are free of blame.
Sorry: couldn't resist it:D