Wasn't it the Indian based insults that made the difference?
Their general dislike of one another is normal, they simply didn't get on, not everyone does. The racism came from the form of attack Jade and her friends chose.
Did Jade do the indian accent in a derogatory way? I cannot remember now. I do remember at least one, if not both of the other two involved doing it and I certainly remember Jade going over the top in having a go at Shilpa.
Again I blamed BB a lot in the sense they were hoping it would kick off somehow by bringing Jade and her mum in. They used these tactics from BB5 with the whole BB gets nasty thing which resulted in fight night on just night 20 and BB in my view have never learnt their lesson from this nor seem to want to! >:(
Having said that, the whole reason why BB went for that "tactic" was because too many people moaned about BB 4 saying it was boring because they "all got along too much" but they didn't actually and for me, BB4 was the best!
How about if you were homosexual or disabled or the parent of a child who killed themselves because of it?
No excuses..it's a disgusting thing to say.
I am gay and it did not offend me because I genuinely believe he really thinks that. Its ridiculous how Channel 5 is trying to silence people from just expressing their views.
Evanders comments where not nearly as bad as some of the other homophobic stuff you hear from just general people these days. If he had said something along the lines of "Gays should be killed etc" he would be out of order but he just said he thinks being gay is a handicap and can be cured. Plus he put religious context to his view.
Channel 5 weren't saying he couldn't hold that view. They were just telling him that some people could find it upsetting.
I think they've done the right thing so far.
I think using the comparison to disabilities is what warranted a warning however, his expressing of religious beliefs around the topic of homosexuality will do him no favours either. Whether he's entitled to or not is another topic but by all means warn him in regards to that comparison.
A heterosexual person can't say being gay is a choice when every homosexual person will say they didn't chose it.
for about five minutes in the 1970s it was common for gay people to state that they had chosen to be that way. Possibly as a reaction to people feeling sorry for them because they "couldn't help it" (as was common at the time)
I think it probably helped in the fight for rights.
While I completely understand where you're coming from I think this thread alone shows why proving a genetic link to homosexuality is important to so many - if there isn't a choice behind your sexuality then most of the arguments against homosexuality become nul and void.
Possibly, but it is sad if homosexuality is only acceptable to some if it is genetic and "cant be helped"
It's become such a kids show ever since the tabloids wanted to make a big controversy of Jade.
He never used any offensive language even if his opinions are questionable. People who are adults have to deal with other people with all kinds of opinions every day.
I think it's right for BB to nudge him and say "be aware these opinons may be offensive to some viewers".
...but I don't think he should be stopped from giving those opinions or thrown out because of them or given an "official" warning, even if he continues to air those opinions.
If he was being deliberately hateful or advocating violence or using offensive slang terms for gay people..then yes he should be warned/thrown out...
...but giving an opinion (largely based on his religion)that many will disagree with isn't grounds for an ejection.. provided he isn't advocating doing something illegal.
For me, yes. I'm not gay, neither am I disabled, but I would have been offended by his comments if I was. He's entitled to his view as everyone is, but he must have known that many people would be offended. He didn't just say he doesn't agree with homosexuality, he said that there is something wrong with people who are gay, and that they need to be fixed.
Carol got a warning simply for repeating the N word when relaying a comment someone else had made, so Evander's warning was completely justified IMO.
Why did they not call him to the diary room, warn him that his opinions may offend the public, explain why they may offend [ as Evander seems to truly believe he was having a private conversation with Luisa and seems to not have quite understood the 24/7 camera fact] and leave it at that. Was it necessary to screen the conversation at all? Seems CH5 will do anything for publicity.
Why did they not call him to the diary room, warn him that his opinions may offend the public, explain why they may offend [ as Evander seems to truly believe he was having a private conversation with Luisa and seems to not have quite understood the 24/7 camera fact] and leave it at that. Was it necessary to screen the conversation at all? Seems CH5 will do anything for publicity.
If that conversation ever got out and it seemed like they were hiding it they would have faced a massive shit storm. They were saving their own skin which I completely understand.
If that conversation ever got out and it seemed like they were hiding it they would have faced a massive shit storm. They were saving their own skin which I completely understand.
Their is no reason a conversation between those 2 where she warned him it would upset people would get out.
I have to say, as a gay man, I'm utterly shocked by some of the replies in this thread. As someone said earlier, it just goes to show how far, as a society, we still have to come.
How can anyone defend what he said? Some fundamentalist Mormons believe that having dark skin means that you're "cursed" and "tainted". Could you imagine the outrage if someone expressed those views in the house?
Well yes, they were right. Not in a moral sense - he's entitled to his rather outdated views - but because this is what they have to do now.
In the past they would have argued that Luisa provided context to the discussion and flagged up his controversial views. But when they used that argument in the race row (other housemates expressed their views that Jade was wrong) it didn't satisfy OFCOM. Hence why an apology given by Evander the next day was edited into the show immediately after the incident (because OFCOM require the context to be in the same show).
It's all ridiculous of course - OFCOM are no longer satisfied with two sides of an argument. They now expect the broadcaster to ensure that their audience "know" right from wrong (as determined by OFCOM!).
I don't think that's right.
For much of the offensive stuff in CBB5, there weren't HMs expressing views that those things were wrong, and we weren't seeing two sides of an argument. And warnings were used in a number of cases during CBB5, so it's not like BB started using warnings for such things only later on.
I doubt that Louisa's response would have been considered sufficient even back then.
Also, here are the cases where Ofcom found against C4 in CBB5:
Remarks about Cooking in India (transmitted 15 January 2007)
“**** off home” comment (transmitted 17 January 2007)
“Shilpa Poppadom” comment (transmitted 18 and 19 January 2007)
I've just looked again at the Ofcom judgement and what it says about the case made by C4. (link) While C4 did sometimes mention things like other HMs challenging behaviour, they aren't the main thrust of C4's argument in those cases and aren't always even mentioned. When C4 did make that sort of argument, Ofcom usually didn't decide against C4.
She was the only person who heard it and she was trying to stop him saying something that would get him in trouble.
So that guarantees 100% that she (or one of the people working on the show who also would have heard it, Luisa was obviously not the only one) wouldn't have revealed it to the press, in particular if he had gone on to win the show? That seems like a massive risk to me.
No. It's what often, perhaps even normally, happens.
Is this the first time you've seen BB treat something that way?
No it isn't but shouldn't they now stop it ? Evander is the scapegoat here
The remark is offensive to many people (not me) why show it?
Can I just add before I get jumped on that in my view what people say does not matter it's what they do.
People can say nice inoffensive words yet go on and do the most damage. An opinion is just words that can be altered its what is done that can not.
So that guarantees 100% that she (or one of the people working on the show who also would have heard it, Luisa was obviously not the only one) wouldn't have revealed it to the press, in particular if he had gone on to win the show? That seems like a massive risk to me.
Besides that, why should BB sensor this? I'm slightly confused why anyone would think they should, if I'm honest. Whether he said it alone in the bathroom, whether it was in front of the whole house, or indeed whether it was in front of 1 other person, it's completely and utterly irrelevant.
No it isn't but shouldn't they now stop it ? Evander is the scapegoat here
He said it. There is really no room for discussion. I don't see how he is being used as a scapegoat. No one forced him to say it. He said it, and now he will have to face the consequences of that - whether that being he is evicted in the public vote or whatever.
Comments
Did Jade do the indian accent in a derogatory way? I cannot remember now. I do remember at least one, if not both of the other two involved doing it and I certainly remember Jade going over the top in having a go at Shilpa.
Again I blamed BB a lot in the sense they were hoping it would kick off somehow by bringing Jade and her mum in. They used these tactics from BB5 with the whole BB gets nasty thing which resulted in fight night on just night 20 and BB in my view have never learnt their lesson from this nor seem to want to! >:(
Having said that, the whole reason why BB went for that "tactic" was because too many people moaned about BB 4 saying it was boring because they "all got along too much" but they didn't actually and for me, BB4 was the best!
How about if you were homosexual or disabled or the parent of a child who killed themselves because of it?
No excuses..it's a disgusting thing to say.
I am gay and it did not offend me because I genuinely believe he really thinks that. Its ridiculous how Channel 5 is trying to silence people from just expressing their views.
Evanders comments where not nearly as bad as some of the other homophobic stuff you hear from just general people these days. If he had said something along the lines of "Gays should be killed etc" he would be out of order but he just said he thinks being gay is a handicap and can be cured. Plus he put religious context to his view.
I think they've done the right thing so far.
I think it probably helped in the fight for rights.
Possibly, but it is sad if homosexuality is only acceptable to some if it is genetic and "cant be helped"
It's become such a kids show ever since the tabloids wanted to make a big controversy of Jade.
He never used any offensive language even if his opinions are questionable. People who are adults have to deal with other people with all kinds of opinions every day.
...but I don't think he should be stopped from giving those opinions or thrown out because of them or given an "official" warning, even if he continues to air those opinions.
If he was being deliberately hateful or advocating violence or using offensive slang terms for gay people..then yes he should be warned/thrown out...
...but giving an opinion (largely based on his religion)that many will disagree with isn't grounds for an ejection.. provided he isn't advocating doing something illegal.
Carol got a warning simply for repeating the N word when relaying a comment someone else had made, so Evander's warning was completely justified IMO.
Most, perhaps all, BB and CBB warnings have been for things that are not against the law.
If that conversation ever got out and it seemed like they were hiding it they would have faced a massive shit storm. They were saving their own skin which I completely understand.
Their is no reason a conversation between those 2 where she warned him it would upset people would get out.
How exactly do you know that?
How can anyone defend what he said? Some fundamentalist Mormons believe that having dark skin means that you're "cursed" and "tainted". Could you imagine the outrage if someone expressed those views in the house?
Totally unacceptable.
Don't you think it's a bit strange of BB??
She was the only person who heard it and she was trying to stop him saying something that would get him in trouble.
I don't think that's right.
For much of the offensive stuff in CBB5, there weren't HMs expressing views that those things were wrong, and we weren't seeing two sides of an argument. And warnings were used in a number of cases during CBB5, so it's not like BB started using warnings for such things only later on.
I doubt that Louisa's response would have been considered sufficient even back then.
Also, here are the cases where Ofcom found against C4 in CBB5:
Remarks about Cooking in India (transmitted 15 January 2007)
“**** off home” comment (transmitted 17 January 2007)
“Shilpa Poppadom” comment (transmitted 18 and 19 January 2007)
I've just looked again at the Ofcom judgement and what it says about the case made by C4. (link) While C4 did sometimes mention things like other HMs challenging behaviour, they aren't the main thrust of C4's argument in those cases and aren't always even mentioned. When C4 did make that sort of argument, Ofcom usually didn't decide against C4.
No. It's what often, perhaps even normally, happens.
Is this the first time you've seen BB treat something that way?
So that guarantees 100% that she (or one of the people working on the show who also would have heard it, Luisa was obviously not the only one) wouldn't have revealed it to the press, in particular if he had gone on to win the show? That seems like a massive risk to me.
No it isn't but shouldn't they now stop it ? Evander is the scapegoat here
The remark is offensive to many people (not me) why show it?
Can I just add before I get jumped on that in my view what people say does not matter it's what they do.
People can say nice inoffensive words yet go on and do the most damage. An opinion is just words that can be altered its what is done that can not.
Besides that, why should BB sensor this? I'm slightly confused why anyone would think they should, if I'm honest. Whether he said it alone in the bathroom, whether it was in front of the whole house, or indeed whether it was in front of 1 other person, it's completely and utterly irrelevant.
He said it. There is really no room for discussion. I don't see how he is being used as a scapegoat. No one forced him to say it. He said it, and now he will have to face the consequences of that - whether that being he is evicted in the public vote or whatever.