70 stone man The final chapter Ch 5

riverside 57riverside 57 Posts: 14,380
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I'm just watching this on +1.

Is anyone else watching? It just never fails to amaze me how someone can actually get that big! Surely 40 stone ago he should have realised he needed this help :confused:

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  • CherrybomberCherrybomber Posts: 3,743
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    I'm just watching this on +1.

    Is anyone else watching? It just never fails to amaze me how someone can actually get that big! Surely 40 stone ago he should have realised he needed this help :confused:

    I have just finished watching it. I was surprised not to find a thread until now.

    What I never understands is why people keep feeding him. Once he's 40 stone and bed bound, who brings him so much food each day that he gains a further 30 stone.

    He must have been eating 10,000 calories a day. So why was he being given that?

    His sister is his carer so it must be her. Poor woman.
  • Debb1eDebb1e Posts: 451
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    Yes, I'm still reeling from it. :o

    30-40 years ago you were branded a fatty if you were a couple of stone overweight.

    How anyone can let themselves get to 70 stone beggars belief.
  • Debb1eDebb1e Posts: 451
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    He must have been eating 10,000 calories a day. So why was he being given that?

    His sister is his carer so it must be her. Poor woman.

    I saw a clip where it said he was eating 20,000 calories a day (he used to eat 8 hotdogs for breakfast!!) and had a 72" (6 feet!!) waist.
  • riverside 57riverside 57 Posts: 14,380
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    Yes I completely agree about people constantly feeding immobile people. Surely if he had to keep getting his own food he wouldn't be so immobile. And if my life was taken up with caring for someone who suffers from being immobile because of being super morbidly obese, I sure as hell wouldn't keep feeding them 6 meals in one 3 or 4 times a day! And this woman is being paid by the state as his carer! Sorry if I sound uncaring, but I am speaking as an overweight person myself who has lost 6.5 stone already through weight watchers, so I know how it feels to keep craving bad food, but to eat myself helpless just doesn't seem like a possibility for me. When I started to feel like I was having trouble moving properly was when I decided enough was enough!
  • roverboy1965roverboy1965 Posts: 1,679
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    Watched this and made me really mad. The NHS will spend tens of thousands treating people like this whose problems are mostly self inflicted, yet refuse to fund the drugs to treat a young mum with terminal breast cancer to extend her life for six months and give her few more weeks with her very young children.

    That I find a disgrace.
  • tennismantennisman Posts: 4,471
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    Where do people in this situation get the money for all that food?

    If his sister was his carer, where's the income?

    All that time and money spent on him and he makes the decision to leave hospital putting his life at risk. even more. The system is a complete SNAFU.

    After following his journey all that way, we get a cut to black which last barely long enough for you to read it saying he died.

    Very strange.
  • IJoinedInMayIJoinedInMay Posts: 26,317
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    It was quite a dull program. I don't know if that was because he didn't have a bombastic personality or after you've seen one exceptional obesity documentary, you've seen them all.

    Turning down the hospital care before he had to have his operation was madness.
  • CherrybomberCherrybomber Posts: 3,743
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    Debb1e wrote: »
    I saw a clip where it said he was eating 20,000 calories a day (he used to eat 8 hotdogs for breakfast!!) and had a 72" (6 feet!!) waist.
    Looking at him his waist looked a lot bigger than 6 ft
    Yes I completely agree about people constantly feeding immobile people. Surely if he had to keep getting his own food he wouldn't be so immobile. And if my life was taken up with caring for someone who suffers from being immobile because of being super morbidly obese, I sure as hell wouldn't keep feeding them 6 meals in one 3 or 4 times a day! And this woman is being paid by the state as his carer! Sorry if I sound uncaring, but I am speaking as an overweight person myself who has lost 6.5 stone already through weight watchers, so I know how it feels to keep craving bad food, but to eat myself helpless just doesn't seem like a possibility for me. When I started to feel like I was having trouble moving properly was when I decided enough was enough!
    I just can't get my mind to comprehend why a person would keep on bringing bacon butties and pizza to somebody so heavy they can't move.

    You had a tipping point but obviously he didn't, people get into this state for a variety of reasons and extreme misery is always on the list. I just feel very sorry for him.
    Watched this and made me really mad. The NHS will spend tens of thousands treating people like this whose problems are mostly self inflicted, yet refuse to fund the drugs to treat a young mum with terminal breast cancer to extend her life for six months and give her few more weeks with her very young children.

    That I find a disgrace.

    I don't find it disgraceful.

    You're on a dodgy wicket when you start discussing self infliction. Are we going to stop treating the lung cancer of smokers or the liver disease of people who abuse alcohol?
    What about the injuries of sports people?
    There's a level of self infliction in a lot of ailments.

    Additionally, there seems little point in extending somebodies life with treatment from death in 3 years after diagnosis to 3 years and 4 months.
    If you could give somebody another 10 years and they were 10 good years that would be another matter.

    What I would suggest is that they take 3 or 4 potential Keith's when they were 20 stone and invested the resource in them at that stage when their situation was retrievable.
  • roverboy1965roverboy1965 Posts: 1,679
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    I don't find it disgraceful.

    You're on a dodgy wicket when you start discussing self infliction. Are we going to stop treating the lung cancer of smokers or the liver disease of people who abuse alcohol?
    What about the injuries of sports people?
    There's a level of self infliction in a lot of ailments.

    Additionally, there seems little point in extending somebodies life with treatment from death in 3 years after diagnosis to 3 years and 4 months.
    If you could give somebody another 10 years and they were 10 good years that would be another matter.

    What I would suggest is that they take 3 or 4 potential Keith's when they were 20 stone and invested the resource in them at that stage when their situation was retrievable.[/QUOTE]

    I knew someone would jump on this, and I did say mostly.[

    I doubt you would be so cavalier about condemning someone to death if it was you or a loved one in the situation. In the case of the young mother with small children, any amount of extra time you can be given with them is priceless and far from pointless.
  • jazzydrury3jazzydrury3 Posts: 27,018
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    I'm surprised they gave the show the title The man who couldn't be saved, as watched the whole show thinking, knowing he hadn't survived anyway.
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    When-o-when will Channel 5 make "The Boy With an Arse for a Face"? As part of their sensitive documentary series natch, and not just a gawping freak-show.
  • BlueEyedMrsPBlueEyedMrsP Posts: 12,178
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    I felt quite sad watching this, knowing that it wouldn't end well. Even without the title, you just knew that someone discharging themselves so soon in such a state would end in disaster. I thought it was very honest of the doctor to talk about whether the operation was the right decision initially. It's something we don't like to think about, and especially if you ask the loved ones, who's going to say, 'no, I don't think we should give you a potentially life-saving operation'. We like to think there is hope, that people can get a second chance, it's sad when it doesn't go as planned. There was also an element of mental health that could have been explored had the show allowed more time: this man's life seemed to revolve around food, and after his stomach was surgically shrunk, he no longer got enjoyment from food (which is obviously beneficial for weight loss), but he seemed really depressed. I don't know what sort of help is available to people like this, in terms of mental health, but I believe he needed more than just a surgical procedure to save his life.
  • jazzydrury3jazzydrury3 Posts: 27,018
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    Straker wrote: »
    When-o-when will Channel 5 make "The Boy With an Arse for a Face"? As part of their sensitive documentary series natch, and not just a gawping freak-show.

    Hasn't Channel 5 had that all summer with Steven Goode from Big Brother
  • StrakerStraker Posts: 79,567
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    Hasn't Channel 5 had that all summer with Steven Goode from Big Brother

    I`m chuckling but I have absolutely no idea who that is! :D
  • sweetpeanutsweetpeanut Posts: 4,805
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    Watched this and made me really mad. The NHS will spend tens of thousands treating people like this whose problems are mostly self inflicted, yet refuse to fund the drugs to treat a young mum with terminal breast cancer to extend her life for six months and give her few more weeks with her very young children.

    That I find a disgrace.
    Do you feel the same about anorexic people?
  • Debb1eDebb1e Posts: 451
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    Do you feel the same about anorexic people?

    Frankly I have no sympathy for anorexic people either. Thinking they're "fat" and starving themselves when they weigh 6 stone soaking wet. It's as much a self-inflicted condition as being morbidly obese is.

    The people I feel sorry for are those who contract an illness that they can't control, e.g. cancer, dementia, motor neuron disease etc. Not the ones who inflict ill-health upon themselves.
  • sweetpeanutsweetpeanut Posts: 4,805
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    Debb1e wrote: »
    Frankly I have no sympathy for anorexic people either. Thinking they're "fat" and starving themselves when they weigh 6 stone soaking wet. It's as much a self-inflicted condition as being morbidly obese is.

    The people I feel sorry for are those who contract an illness that they can't control, e.g. cancer, dementia, motor neuron disease etc. Not the ones who inflict ill-health upon themselves.

    You sound a lovely person. Can't be doing with people who forget about mental health.
  • runfor yourliferunfor yourlife Posts: 118
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    Debb1e wrote: »
    Frankly I have no sympathy for anorexic people either. Thinking they're "fat" and starving themselves when they weigh 6 stone soaking wet. It's as much a self-inflicted condition as being morbidly obese is.

    The people I feel sorry for are those who contract an illness that they can't control, e.g. cancer, dementia, motor neuron disease etc. Not the ones who inflict ill-health upon themselves.

    Well you are just lovely. I hope you never have to watch a loved one deteriorate because of a mental illness .
  • runfor yourliferunfor yourlife Posts: 118
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    You sound a lovely person. Can't be doing with people who forget about mental health.

    You beat me to it !
  • StressMonkeyStressMonkey Posts: 13,347
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    Debb1e wrote: »
    Frankly I have no sympathy for anorexic people either. Thinking they're "fat" and starving themselves when they weigh 6 stone soaking wet. It's as much a self-inflicted condition as being morbidly obese is.

    The people I feel sorry for are those who contract an illness that they can't control, e.g. cancer, dementia, motor neuron disease etc. Not the ones who inflict ill-health upon themselves.

    It is a very high percentage of cancers that can be prevented via lifestyle so are you saying that 'self-inflicted' cancers should be left untreated?

    Indeed many illnesses can be prevented or their effects significantly reduced by lifestyle changes - even some causes of dementia are now thought to be lifestyle related.

    And do you class all mental illnesses such as anorexia & other eating disorders to be self inflicted? If eating disorders, how about depression? Or Schizophrenia? should no mental illness be treated?

    Things aren't black and white. There are many more grey areas and we should all try to have some compassion for the suffering of others as we don't know what lead them to the situation they find themselves in.
  • GroundhogalGroundhogal Posts: 9,476
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    I'm surprised they gave the show the title The man who couldn't be saved, as watched the whole show thinking, knowing he hadn't survived anyway.

    It's like if they'd called The Sixth Sense, Dead Shrink Helps Kid Who Sees Ghosts or The Crying Game, Chick With A D**k.
  • dorydaryldorydaryl Posts: 15,927
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    Debb1e wrote: »
    Frankly I have no sympathy for anorexic people either. Thinking they're "fat" and starving themselves when they weigh 6 stone soaking wet. It's as much a self-inflicted condition as being morbidly obese is.

    The people I feel sorry for are those who contract an illness that they can't control, e.g. cancer, dementia, motor neuron disease etc. Not the ones who inflict ill-health upon themselves.

    Are you one of those who has no time for people with depression because you think they're 'weak' and that they should just 'snap out of it'!? I had anorexia when I was a teenager. It happened because I had gone through some extremely traumatic experiences...I'm not talking a bit of schoolyard banter. I've also experienced severe depression and care for someone who does. Are you going to have any sympathy for people like Robin Williams?

    Who would willingly let themselves become morbidly obese or starve themselves skeletal for no reason, knowing what ridicule it is likely to incur?

    I'll put it in simple terms for someone like you. Body organs and systems can 'go faulty' and diseases happen. The brain is an organ. It can malfunction, too. Sometimes things screw up because of things we do. Sometimes not. More often, it's much more complex than that. We're not little robots who abide by all the 'shoulds' and 'oughts' in life. Sometimes people behave in ways that make an existing condition or situation worse. Sometimes they don't. It just happens. Just as with 'real' illnesses and health conditions. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion but I'd suggest you educate yourself a little.
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    I've been waiting for this documentary for a year, as part one of Keith's story was shown this time last year - which explained how he got that big and his life at home with daily Carers coming in to wash him, and the Consultant even visiting him at home to assess him as he couldn't travel to hospital. With his sister's help, he lost 25 stone before being admitted to the Homerton and then losing more weight on a liquid diet. The first docu ended just as he was getting ready for surgery the next day, and I was interested in seeing what happened to Keith. The second one was listed in Radio Times weeks ago, but when I tuned in, something else was on. Presumably it was cancelled because he had died. :(

    I genuinely did not realise he had died, and was absolutely shocked at the end - more so with the shameful way the film makers just put up the written announcement and took it down in 2 seconds, barely time to read it, but I gather he died of Pneumonia, 8 months after surgery. :(
    Normally in these situations, the docu makers will go back and talk to his sister and the doctors, but no, just a brusque update after the fact. They could've at least done it in a more tactful way and not just tagged it on with seconds to spare.
    What I would suggest is that they take 3 or 4 potential Keith's when they were 20 stone and invested the resource in them at that stage when their situation was retrievable.

    I totally agree. If the Health Authority is going to provide a Care package at home for an immobile person because they've gained so much weight they cannot visit the loo or get out of bed, then intervene asap before it gets to that stage where death is the most likely outcome.
    There was also an element of mental health that could have been explored had the show allowed more time: this man's life seemed to revolve around food, and after his stomach was surgically shrunk, he no longer got enjoyment from food (which is obviously beneficial for weight loss), but he seemed really depressed. I don't know what sort of help is available to people like this, in terms of mental health, but I believe he needed more than just a surgical procedure to save his life.

    In the first docu he talked about being deeply affected by the death of his Mother, and turning to food after that. It took time to explain his circumstances more, and frankly they should've repeated that before showing the second one.
    But I totally agree with your point about mental health help not being offered. When the younger doctor talked about sending him home to do Physio etc. I thought, where's the psychotherapy? What's being done about his depression and inner turmoil? The 2 should've gone hand in hand with the surgery.

    Incidentally, incase anyone wants to see it, the first docu is still available to view on 5OD.
    http://www.channel5.com/shows/70-stone-almost-dead

    I realise now the titles say it all, but channel 4 & 5 titles of these docus become so ridiculous I don't even take any notice.
  • BlueEyedMrsPBlueEyedMrsP Posts: 12,178
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    dorydaryl wrote: »
    Are you one of those who has no time for people with depression because you think they're 'weak' and that they should just 'snap out of it'!? I had anorexia when I was a teenager. It happened because I had gone through some extremely traumatic experiences...I'm not talking a bit of schoolyard banter. I've also experienced severe depression and care for someone who does. Are you going to have any sympathy for people like Robin Williams?

    Who would willingly let themselves become morbidly obese or starve themselves skeletal for no reason, knowing what ridicule it is likely to incur?

    I'll put it in simple terms for someone like you. Body organs and systems can 'go faulty' and diseases happen. The brain is an organ. It can malfunction, too. Sometimes things screw up because of things we do. Sometimes not. More often, it's much more complex than that. We're not little robots who abide by all the 'shoulds' and 'oughts' in life. Sometimes people behave in ways that make an existing condition or situation worse. Sometimes they don't. It just happens. Just as with 'real' illnesses and health conditions. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion but I'd suggest you educate yourself a little.

    Over the years I've met many people who think that if someone is 'aware' that they have a mental illness, that it means they have the ability to cure themselves. I guess they're the ones who equate depression with 'feeling a bit sad'. I think there are still a lot of misconceptions regarding mental illness.
  • CherrybomberCherrybomber Posts: 3,743
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    I knew someone would jump on this, and I did say mostly.[

    I doubt you would be so cavalier about condemning someone to death if it was you or a loved one in the situation. In the case of the young mother with small children, any amount of extra time you can be given with them is priceless and far from pointless.[/U][/B]

    I didn't jump on it, I responded to highlight the flaws in your point of view

    As for condemning somebody to death, we were already discussing a person terminally ill, regrettably I have rather a lot of experience of loved ones with terminal illness and there is little to chose between 3 yrs and 3 years 4 months when you know you are about to die from breast cancer, ( that was your example).
    The most recent of my loves ones to die from secondary cancer died only a couple of months ago , 2 yrs 10 months after diagnosis, would I chose to extended her life for a few months rather than save the life of somebody who has a, 'self inflicted" illness, no I would not.

    Other loved ones to die in the last few years, I wouldn't have saved the life of the man with leukaemia who was bleeding from every orifice and in terrible pain,, or the lady who was having limbs removed to keep her alive, or the woman who's liver was just packing up and the treatment was destroying her senses, no vision, lose of hearing, even taste, or the man who's heart disease was keeping him prisoner in a bed and struggling to breath, move and so on.

    So don't talk such rubbish to me again.

    Being less judgemental about people's health might help you avoid making such idiotic remarks.

    If you have an issue let's take it up via PM.
    I'd LOVE to talk to you more.
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