Should Blackberry abandon their own OS in favour of Android?

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  • Zack06Zack06 Posts: 28,304
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    Big Poy wrote: »
    Did they?

    In 2012 they spent 35mil on marketing compared to Samsungs 2 Billion.

    Who may all these Celebrity endorsements be?

    Alicia Keys is the main one, who else?

    http://nerdberry.net/2013/03/22/blackberry-z10-launch-party-attracts-some-celebrities/
    http://celebrity-gossip.net/rachel-bilson/blackberry-z10-launch-draws-big-stars-825165
    http://blackberryrocks.com/2013/03/23/a-list-celebs-show-blackberry-z10-launch-event-los-angeles/
    http://www.justjaredjr.com/2013/02/02/pixie-lott-blackberry-z10-launch-event/

    Then there's all the tweets about it from celebs, some of which can be seen here...

    http://tweetwood.com/trends/blackberry%20z10

    They've tried everything they can to attract attention to the launch, their PR team handed out Z10s to loads of celebrities and got them to tweet about it, even to people like Steven Fry, in an attempt for hype.

    But it looks like it hasn't paid off. http://www.cnbc.com/id/100588303
  • finbaarfinbaar Posts: 4,818
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    BlackBerry can survive as a software service company , they need to stop making hardware. If theZ10 was running Android or WP it might have stood in chance but it would take to long now to switch.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    This survey is not conclusive at all! They went into 20 stores doesn't say where, remember the US is a big place. Also it were AT T outlets and they apparently didn't get set that well for launch. word is they are selling better in Costco and best buy. As I said its too early to say as there are factors that have not been taken in to consideration.

    Very wild and rash claims here whilst the z10 in the US has just landed. Were people really expecting iPhone level sales? was never going to happen. There are many other markets though where BB can have success. There are many emerging markets around the world with improving economies so there are markets BB can go after.

    The US is a massive Apple stronghold their will never be a big swing towards BB at this moment in time.
  • Step666Step666 Posts: 1,284
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    Big Poy wrote: »
    Where did you hear these official sales figures?

    Ah yes, just reading articles from people who are mostly trying to manipulate the stock.
    Actually, directly from managers and staff in stores from all channels across a number of towns and cities.
    Feedback along the lines of 'Sold one since launch', No-one's interested', Don't think anyone has even asked about it' is all but universal in the stores I deal with.

    Just because you don't know what's happening in the market, don't presume to tar us all with the same brush.
  • MustabusterMustabuster Posts: 5,973
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    Personally I no longer think there is room for a marginalised OS in the smartphone market. Their best bet is to do a Nokia and go Windows Phone with some unique differentiators.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    slick1two wrote: »
    This survey is not conclusive at all! They went into 20 stores doesn't say where, remember the US is a big place. Also it were AT T outlets and they apparently didn't get set that well for launch. word is they are selling better in Costco and best buy. As I said its too early to say as there are factors that have not been taken in to consideration.

    Very wild and rash claims here whilst the z10 in the US has just landed. Were people really expecting iPhone level sales? was never going to happen. There are many other markets though where BB can have success. There are many emerging markets around the world with improving economies so there are markets BB can go after.

    The US is a massive Apple stronghold their will never be a big swing towards BB at this moment in time.

    Possibly not but poor sales in the US the like that is being mentioned I think will doom them so they had better pray for some
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    swordman wrote: »
    Possibly not but poor sales in the US the like that is being mentioned I think will doom them so they had better pray for some

    Yeah but come on give it a chance to get out the blinkin door first! We really haven't heard much at all yet. There are other carriers and stores not to mention Amazon and other online retailers. so we don't yet have any way of knowing what actual figures are like but if you read some of the headlines that are out there on this you would think RIM are on the brink of death. A big overreaction.
  • swordmanswordman Posts: 6,679
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    Problem is I don't think it is an over reaction they are in deep do do to be honest. Told you ages ago I didn't see the z10 selling but I did think maybe the q10 is it? may do ok until I found out the price of it as well :eek:

    However as you say though nothing is proven or certain yet but not many phone companies can bomb in the states and survive without big sales elsewhere so we shall see.
  • whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    For the good of the consumer and competition blackberry should keep their own OS.

    Competition is good!
  • whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    Hugh_ wrote: »
    Well, Samsung abandoned its own OS and piggy backed off Google Android OS and it hasn't done it any harm. Not every company is as strong and innovative as Apple being able to create a successful and advanced operating system like iOS and Android

    I've fixed it for you.
  • clonmultclonmult Posts: 3,366
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    konebyvax wrote: »
    I'm not sure whatever BB do will be enough to save them TBH. They are no longer the brand that young people go for (imo it was a total fluke in the fist place). Simple as that, really.

    It was a fluke, totally based on the popularity of the BB devices for corporates. RIM made the huge mistake of taking their eye off their core competency - corporate communications.
  • clonmultclonmult Posts: 3,366
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    They should stick to what their own OS as they do have some customers that prefer them to other phones. However imho they should keep well away from tablets & not release another disaster like the playbook. A few of my friends had the playbook, and only found improvement on the device, once they rooted it.

    The playbook was only a disaster as of the initial firmware releases. The device itself is one of the best built tablets on the market, and with OS2 it has a rather elegant and well thought out interface (still reckon my playbook has a better interface than my Nexus 7).

    pretty sure that your friends aren't on BB OS2, as that hasn't been rooted.
  • clonmultclonmult Posts: 3,366
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    Hugh_ wrote: »
    Well, Samsung abandoned its own OS and piggy backed off Google Android OS and it hasn't done it any harm. Not every company is as strong and innovative as Apple being able to create a successful and advanced operating system like iOS.

    So perhaps they should copy Samsung, and piggy back of Google's Android.

    Its a real shame that Blackberry were brave enough and innovative to create their own OS but people slate them for it. Not everyone want to be an Android sheep, some want to be individual. Blackberry and Apple should be applauded.

    If Google had their way EVERY company and every model of phone would run Android and Google would have complete control over it, yet the poor blind sheep can't see it happening right in front of them.

    Samsung are working on their own OS (look up Tizen). What are the odds that they'll start to push S4 type devices with a much more interesting OS? It would definitely be in Samsungs interest to have total control over the environment.

    Blackberry will continue to have some success regardless - after all, they're one of the biggest players in automotive electronics.

    Since when were Apple innovative, and creating advanced operating systems? Innovative with the original iPhone, but since then nothing major. iOS is okay to a point, but there is no way its advanced. no way at all.
  • Air ResistanceAir Resistance Posts: 5,145
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    TheBigM wrote: »
    There's one Hail Mary then can still go for. Pull a Nokia and go exclusively with Windows Phone. It would be an incredibly strong proposition for corporates combining the best of Blackberry and Microsoft's enterprise offerings.

    They could differentiate themselves by demanding exclusivity on Q10 style keyboard devices (Maybe for two years or something). Keyboard style devices is something MS were going to do for WP8 using an HVGA resolution screen then they dropped their plans, this could bring a revival.

    This would be a much much better solution for blackberry for the consumer than hoping onto the android market the they would inevitably fail. I'm sure Microsoft would give them a lot of help too ala. Nokia.

    I'm all for blackberry continuing on there own as long as possible.
  • Big PoyBig Poy Posts: 7,420
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    Step666 wrote: »
    Actually, directly from managers and staff in stores from all channels across a number of towns and cities.
    Feedback along the lines of 'Sold one since launch', No-one's interested', Don't think anyone has even asked about it' is all but universal in the stores I deal with.

    Just because you don't know what's happening in the market, don't presume to tar us all with the same brush.

    Well we will hopefully find out soon enough as they should release some form of sales figures in the ER later today.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/28/us-blackberry-results-idUKBRE92R0AQ20130328

    Not too bad considering it has only just gone on sale in the US. And still have the Q10 to come, which will surely be snapped up by the physical keyboard crowd. Also if corporations begin to adopt the Z10/Q10, it will leave BB in good stead for the release of the next flagship device.

    6 million BB phones were sold in the last quarter. Not too shabby, considering BB are supposed to be dead already or on the brink according to some.
  • finbaarfinbaar Posts: 4,818
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    clonmult wrote: »
    Samsung are working on their own OS (look up Tizen). What are the odds that they'll start to push S4 type devices with a much more interesting OS? It would definitely be in Samsungs interest to have total control over the environment.

    Blackberry will continue to have some success regardless - after all, they're one of the biggest players in automotive electronics.

    Since when were Apple innovative, and creating advanced operating systems? Innovative with the original iPhone, but since then nothing major. iOS is okay to a point, but there is no way its advanced. no way at all.


    I see no reason why Tizen would be any more sucessful than Bada. I think Tizen is aimed at Carrier phones anyway. The like of Verizon, AT&T, O2 etc would love to have control over the handsets.
  • Big PoyBig Poy Posts: 7,420
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    slick1two wrote: »
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/28/us-blackberry-results-idUKBRE92R0AQ20130328

    Not too bad considering it has only just gone on sale in the US. And still have the Q10 to come, which will surely be snapped up by the physical keyboard crowd. Also if corporations begin to adopt the Z10/Q10, it will leave BB in good stead for the release of the next flagship device.

    6 million BB phones were sold in the last quarter. Not too shabby, considering BB are supposed to be dead already or on the brink according to some.


    Yeh it doesn't account for any sales in the U.S.

    Just the first 4 weeks in the U.K and 3 weeks in Canada.
  • Step666Step666 Posts: 1,284
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    That's 1 million shipped, they don't know how many of them have actually been sold - the CEO guessed between 2/3 and 3/4.
    So there's potentially 250-330,000 Z10s sitting on shelves.

    That's not a criticism, simply a reminder that if retailers are sat on stock that isn't shifting, they're not going to be buying any more.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    Big Poy wrote: »
    Yeh it doesn't account for any sales in the U.S.

    Just the first 4 weeks in the U.K and 3 weeks in Canada.

    Well thats pretty bloody good if you ask me! Given the circumstances under which BB had to bring a flagship phone to market, not bad at all. That was just one phone as well. Not to mention still shifting numbers of their old phones, which shows people still want the keyboard. That could be a good indicator of how well the Q10 could do as it will be an improvement on all the existing keyboard phones.

    people seem to forget that BB have a near 80 million subscriber base itching to get their hands on something leading edge, even if in just BB terms and lacking compared to other phones out there, if it's a step up for the BB user base, then they will go for it.

    All these comparisons to palm is absolute nonsense! Palm had nowhere near the subscriber base when they went down.

    This news is definitely encouraging and something to build on. If the next phone takes what is good from the Z10, in terms of the hardware and BB10 and improves upon it, we could see BB making inroads in a very competitive market. There is of course plenty of work to do, but BB are not out of the game yet, to the disappointment of so many detractors that are wishing for their downfall.

    I credit them for not taking up Android and going it alone, and actually trying to do something different. We, as customers are the ultimate winners, as we get more choice in a market which only has 2 big players, would love BB to get in their with Windows phone as well. I think there is room for BB and WP.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    Step666 wrote: »
    That's 1 million shipped, they don't know how many of them have actually been sold - the CEO guessed between 2/3 and 3/4.
    So there's potentially 250-330,000 Z10s sitting on shelves.

    That's not a criticism, simply a reminder that if retailers are sat on stock that isn't shifting, they're not going to be buying any more.

    1 million Z10s SOLD
    The smartphone maker said on Thursday that it had sold about 1 million of the new Z10 devices during the fourth quarter ended March 2. It shipped roughly 6 million smartphones in that period.
  • Step666Step666 Posts: 1,284
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    slick1two wrote: »
    people seem to forget that BB have a near 80 million subscriber base itching to get their hands on something leading edge...
    Can't be itching that much, 3 million of them left during the last quarter.
    They're around 76m now.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    Step666 wrote: »
    Can't be itching that much, 3 million of them left during the last quarter.
    They're around 76m now.

    Well when you are talking multiple millions, 76m is still a sizable amount. So that's a big number of potential customers. Basic economics, right?
  • Step666Step666 Posts: 1,284
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    slick1two wrote: »
    1 million Z10s SOLD
    No, not sold, shipped.
    Engadget wrote:
    More importantly, however, it shipped out almost one million BlackBerry 10 devices during the three weeks of the quarter that they were available.

    [...]

    Update: During the conference call, Thorsten Heins has revealed that around two-thirds or three-quarters of the one million BB10 devices shipped have been sold.
    Engadget
    The Verge wrote:
    It says it sold six million BlackBerry devices over the past three months, but only a million of them were running BlackBerry 10.

    [...]

    He also noted that two-thirds to three-quarters of the one million Z10s that shipped have sold through the end users...
    The Verge

    Try actually reading before commenting...


    slick1two wrote: »
    Well when you are talking multiple millions, 76m is still a sizable amount. So that's a big number of potential customers. Basic economics, right?
    The subscriber base is meaningless, it's got absolutely nothing to do with basic economics.

    Just because X million people have Blackberrys now doesn't mean that a) they will be looking to upgrade any time soon or b) they will go for another Blackberry.
    We've gone over this before but you seem determined not to face facts.

    At least now you can stop going on about 80m users because it's no longer true.
  • slick1twoslick1two Posts: 2,877
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    Step666 wrote: »
    No, not sold, shipped.

    Engadget

    The Verge

    Try actually reading before commenting...



    The subscriber base is meaningless, it's got absolutely nothing to do with basic economics.

    Just because X million people have Blackberrys now doesn't mean that a) they will be looking to upgrade any time soon or b) they will go for another Blackberry.
    We've gone over this before but you seem determined not to face facts.

    At least now you can stop going on about 80m users because it's no longer true.

    Wow what an ignorant comment! subscriber base is meaningless? really?? That's funny because that's still 76m that own the product, and are still buying BB services, apps etc. Use your head a little, for someone who supposedly works in the phone industry, you do come out with nonsense.

    Even if they sold 2 thirds of the 1 million, still not bad, since the phone has only just gone on sale in the US, so they will surely top a million sales of the Z10, then comes the Q10 which for BB users may well be the holy grail.

    Look I know you're severely biased here so I don't really expect a reasonable argument from you. But given the circumstances, BB have done well thus far, in the face of so many doubters and haters as well as fierce competition.

    edit

    You missed out the bit where it states that many of the lost subscribers were Pre pay customers, who tend to float around anyways since they are not locked in to length contracts.

    Also it still states on the Verge here.
    it sold six million BlackBerry devices over the past three months, but only a million of them were running BlackBerry 10. It's worth noting that BlackBerry's Q4 2013 ended on March 2nd, 2013. That means these figures don't reflect the US and Canadian launches of the company's new flagship smartphone, the Z10. Analysts expected a total of 6.95 million sales, 1.1 million of them BlackBerry 10 devices

    There will be a significant chunk of sales that won't be accounted for in this earnings call, since it doesn't reflect US and Canadian sales. Again, the Q10 will hit next month, so we will see in next earnings declaration what kind of figures BB did with the North American sales accounted for.
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