I wonder if we'll ever find out all this 'secret' (my word) stuff he did for people like Frank Bruno and Prince Charles, and indeed 'the country'.
Quite. I don't think they are talking about his DJing or TV shows... We might guess they mean charity work but "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country" doesn't fit. Plus Savile was keen to boast about his charity work and was very well known for it.
It does seem from Bruno's own words and from recent articles about Charles that he acted as an advisor to both Charles and Bruno and both were grateful for this.
But "the country"? A strange thing for Charles to write. Not helped by the revelation that Savile was an evil, child abusing creep...
I've always favoured a paedophile island - after sentence they have an option to live on a remote previously uninhabited island with no internet access , male only and no kids . They would be a self governing community and would only be allowed to stay and work there if they showed good behaviour and remorse for their crimes. Small cottage industries and farming would be promoted so that they would become self sufficient.
South Georgia comes to mind.
They needn't even serve a jail sentence in UK, just ship them straight off, rather like deportation in the early days of Australia. These people need removal from temptation and the opportunity to offend again.
Thing is, given how big a factor child abuse is in things like drug addiction, alcoholism, crime, marriage break-ups etc i think if you could calculate the costs it would turn out to be cheaper to lock them up.
And don't forget the cost to the NHS for those who have been abused but don't go on to perpetuate the cycle but self abuse instead by drugs, alcohol or self harm and probably big cycles of depression.
I've always favoured a paedophile island - after sentence they have an option to live on a remote previously uninhabited island with no internet access , male only and no kids . They would be a self governing community and would only be allowed to stay and work there if they showed good behaviour and remorse for their crimes. Small cottage industries and farming would be promoted so that they would become self sufficient.
Prisoners escaped, even from Alcatraz... I say chemical castration. But that never sits well with society, and I probably haven't thought it through
*awaits backlash*
I've always favoured a paedophile island - after sentence they have an option to live on a remote previously uninhabited island with no internet access , male only and no kids . They would be a self governing community and would only be allowed to stay and work there if they showed good behaviour and remorse for their crimes. Small cottage industries and farming would be promoted so that they would become self sufficient.
South Georgia comes to mind.
They needn't even serve a jail sentence in UK, just ship them straight off, rather like deportation in the early days of Australia. These people need removal from temptation and the opportunity to offend again.
Good call - I do worry about the penguins though ....
Not directly Savile-related, but Mark Williams-Thomas was on This Morning - er - this morning, and he did a demonstration of dangers on-line. His colleague former detective Jon Taylor had a laptop and went online in a chat room, posing as a 14 year old girl. Within 5 minutes 22 men were "talking" to her, usually starting by asking her age and is she at school. A 58-y-o man from Croydon typed "I want to find a nice young girl."
Mark W-T said for some men it's just a fantasy, but others go on to suggest meeting up with the "girl", from which point they can be prosecuted for travelling and grooming offences.
Mark said young people should get their parents involved with writing their profile, have parents as friends etc. Parents should say to child, if you want to be on Facebook it will be on our terms.
By this point in the segment there were 30 men talking to Jon posing as a 14-y-o girl.
Some were asking for her email or asking if she's on MSN, which allows the man to have a one on one, which allows web cam access. M W-T saying most laptops now have web cams built in.
Mark & Jon back in an hour.
It's not on ITV Player yet.
I saw that, Schofiled asked where the 58 year old was from presumably he thought it was someone from overseas) and seemed visibly shocked when he said Croydon.
I suppose it is quite shocking if you find out there are such people living quite close by to you, I guess he presumed it would be someone from another country but thats the thing, there are likely paedo's in every country, which is why people have to be careful and teach their children to recognise things such as inappropriate touching etc. its not good to think that everyone is a paedo and to get overly paranoid about it all I suppose, although given whats been posted over the last few weeks I could understand people feeling that way... it was interesting to hear things like Facebook profiles for teenagers between 13-18 year olds cant be found via searches I think? their automatically private until the person becomes 18 (I presume thats to do with being classified as a minor?). I can also imagine teenagers whining and blushing about adding their parents as friends on social network sites lol!.
I've always favoured a paedophile island - after sentence they have an option to live on a remote previously uninhabited island with no internet access , male only and no kids . They would be a self governing community and would only be allowed to stay and work there if they showed good behaviour and remorse for their crimes. Small cottage industries and farming would be promoted so that they would become self sufficient.
I don't think the death penalty is to harsh for people like this! I He has had chances but yet abused more kids. In the end of the day, kids should be safe from vile people like this.
And don't forget the cost to the NHS for those who have been abused but don't go on to perpetuate the cycle but self abuse instead by drugs, alcohol or self harm and probably big cycles of depression.
That's the sort of thing i mean. I don't think anyone has ever done a study on the financial cost of abuse.
For those calling for life sentences for child abusers, i.e. the same sentence as for murder, have clearly not engaged their brains and thought about the likely outcome.
If the sentences were to be the same, child abusers may as well kill their victims, knowing they would not get punished any worst, whilst at the same time eliminating their accuser & main witness.
It's the same as with rape.
Life sentences are not the answer, they would likely make matters worst.
I saw that, Schofiled asked where the 58 year old was from presumably he thought it was someone from overseas) and seemed visibly shocked when he said Croydon.
I suppose it is quite shocking if you find out there are such people living quite close by to you, I guess he presumed it would be someone from another country but thats the thing, there are likely paedo's in every country, which is why people have to be careful and teach their children to recognise things such as inappropriate touching etc. its not good to think that everyone is a paedo and to get overly paranoid about it all I suppose, although given whats been posted over the last few weeks I could understand people feeling that way... it was interesting to hear things like Facebook profiles for teenagers between 13-18 year olds cant be found via searches I think? their automatically private until the person becomes 18 (I presume thats to do with being classified as a minor?). I can also imagine teenagers whining and blushing about adding their parents as friends on social network sites lol!.
It's not just Facbeook either. I've read reports showing they're using sites set up specifically for kids to play games or create their own little world - they often have chat facilities or PM systems the paedophiles use for grooming. Thinking about it, I bet one or two were set up with that exact thing in mind. :eek:
I think it was pointed out that his grave faced the bay/sea to one side but a school to the other I think it totally appropriate that it's corpse be removed - don't really care what they do with it but perhaps the gold coffin could be melted and monies put to good use in helping the victims. It obviously felt strongly about being buried in the gold casket so take it from him, as he took alot of valuable things away from so many - like innocence and childhoods!
Is it any wonder people rarely report sex crimes when the legal system is so off side with the victim, not just during the reporting, court case, conviction (where that happens) but through subsequent actions too...
Not related to the JS case, but important narrative concerning the judicial system and abuse.
Perhaps it's time to try something different. Or perhaps we could just continue to firebomb the homes of known paedophiles to remove them from our own doorsteps.
That's an interesting piece and the account is actually quite moving, but it is, nevertheless, idealistic and far from something that has a practical application since that's just one account of the way a community dealt successfully with one offender. What about all the cases where that wouldn't work because an offender is intent on re-offending? And the will to stop, despite support, just isn't there?
I do agree with you though that punitive measures do nothing in the long term and that there has to be a better way - I just don't know what this better way is that offers support to the offender but makes the welfare and safety of children the priority. For those who show no willingness to stop, then I'd have to go with the option below. This one puts the welfare of children first but it also allows offenders a life of sorts and maybe a chance to do something positive with their time.
I've always favoured a paedophile island - after sentence they have an option to live on a remote previously uninhabited island with no internet access , male only and no kids . They would be a self governing community and would only be allowed to stay and work there if they showed good behaviour and remorse for their crimes. Small cottage industries and farming would be promoted so that they would become self sufficient.
I don't think the death penalty is to harsh for people like this! I He has had chances but yet abused more kids. In the end of the day, kids should be safe from vile people like this.
If current internet memes are to be believed we can all imagine who could be the Christopher Lee King of the Island .....
That's the trouble isn't it? When they're released, they're not cured or rehabilated. They're the same person, so why on earth are they released without some kind of mental assessment? Not that I suppose it would do much good because he could just fake remorse. I don't know what the answer is. Life imprisonment for the second offence? You can't just keep giving people like this endless chances to re-offend.
I’m a long-time lurker but your post struck a note which prompted me to comment. The bit about rehabilitation – you're right, that’s a big problem. In fact, it’s a problem not exclusive to paedophiles, I’ve long argued the focus should be on punishment first. If someone can be rehabilitated then fair enough, second chances and all that. But there’s too many criminals out there who’ve abused far more than just their second chance. Anyway…
The problem with paedophiles specifically is that they cannot be rehabilitated. An ex-work colleague of mine is married to a police officer. Her "specialist area" is sex offenders, particularly paedophiles. A few years back - it was Gary Glitter being arrested in Vietnam which sparked the conversation – she explained in great detail exactly how paedophiles operate. Firstly, she said that despite common perceptions, they are not the typical “dirty old man”, in fact there isn’t really an exact profile of a paedophile – they come from many backgrounds and professions. Some are loners, some are married. Some are old, some are young. Some are men, some are women. Some are rich, some are poor. That’s one of the things which enables them to operate, a type of anonymity – what does a paedophile look like??? They also operate within very organised rings, often more organised and clever than your average gang of armed robbers. But here’s the bit many people probably don’t realise – paedophiles see nothing wrong with what they do. It’s not even a question of them coming out with ways of “justifying” their crimes. They don’t search for excuses. They see what they do as being part of their “sexuality”. My friend’s wife said something which has stuck in my mind ever since – “saying that a paedophile can be rehabilitated is as absurd as saying a gay man can be “cured” and turned straight”.
Surely that alone is a good enough reason to never release these creatures back into society? Aside from the fact they should be punished as much as possible for what they do - Trying to put a young scallywag back on the straight and narrow is one thing, believing that you can ever put trust in someone who is sexually attracted to children – and therefore incurable – is at best, naive. At worst, very dangerous.
Again, second chances are all well and good, but there are some in society for whom a second chance is not appropriate. A second chance for them is enough to wreck more lives. Their victims don’t get a second chance.
Prisoners escaped, even from Alcatraz... I say chemical castration. But that never sits well with society, and I probably haven't thought it through
*awaits backlash*
I think I'd tend to agree with you ................then again - why does it have to be 'chemical';)
I think the argument against is that it's not about sex it's about power etc. - Still don't think it's a bad idea though but ...........maybe I haven't thought it through.
the story is basically that people got annoyed when they discovered a JS book in the front window of a bookshop and after alot of complaints, the shopkeeper took it down but their debating whether its enforced censorship or whether it was particularly tasteless having such a book appear in the window in the first place.
It says
It is understood however that the book was placed in the window in an attempt to vilify Savile – it is not known when it was first displayed.
that seems a little strange - how do you vilify someone by displaying their book in a window? hmm, I suppose you'd have to see a photo of the full display to judge. It is a bit tacky perhaps but its not as if JS himself would profit from it (being dead and all, unless money went to his estate which will be funding the compensation claims from victims so in a sense that'd be a good thing? but its likely a second hand book shop so the shop keeper would be making the profit, not JS or his family). I guess it would feel a bit creepy to read that 'stranger danger' book he was involved with, if that was the book(?). I think he only wrote the forward for that though? it was selling for over £20 on Ebay a few weeks ago, I remember someone posting a link to the auction, that was after they stopped selling it on Amazon - I wonder if someone complained to them about that too?.
I do agree with you though that punitive measures do nothing in the long term
If it's true that abuse can lead to abuse then locking people up not only has a direct effect on the number of their victims it prevents the future victims of those victims.
David Cameron has asked government departments to report to Number 10 urgently over allegations of a child sex ring involving former Conservative politicians three decades ago.
It is understood the cabinet secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood is co-ordinating the inquiries involving the Welsh Office and the Home Office, as well as government records.
The move follows a call from the children's commissioner for Wales for a new inquiry into abuse at north Wales care homes in the 1970s and 80s and claims that a senior Tory was involved in a paedophile ring.
The prime minister's spokesman said: "We are clear that these allegations need to be properly investigated and we need to get to the bottom of what precisely happened.
The spokesman added that the prime minister is taking a close interest in the allegations being made. It is likely that the quick internal inquiry will decide if something more formal and substantial needs to be launched, or whether such an inquiry would run across police investigations.
It's not just Facbeook either. I've read reports showing they're using sites set up specifically for kids to play games or create their own little world - they often have chat facilities or PM systems the paedophiles use for grooming. Thinking about it, I bet one or two were set up with that exact thing in mind. :eek:
I think I heard on Channel 4 News sometime recently (this year or last?) they did a big expose on one such website which seemed pretty dodgy (it has/had house or hotel in its name, I think) - that site was sort of a role play or The Sims game type site targeted at children and teens where you interact with other people and spend 'coins' on accessories and things to add to your 'room' which is your space within the site, if I remember right? other people could send private messages and invite people to chat outside the website probably with web cams etc. Some people were angry about how they'd portrayed the website as being dodgy and claimed it was sensationalist, claiming they've never seen anything inappropriate happen or some such but other comments I saw on another forum that discussed it, said they weren't surprised, it had gone badly downhill since a different company took over the site.
They also mentioned that since Channel 4 heard rumours and investigated the site, high street retailers like WH Smith decided to suspend selling gift cards that could be spent on the website(!).
I probably spend a bit too much time online and have done for years but I've never understood the appeal of spending real money for little things within online games but maybe thats just me? idk. Its like a whole other world...
Comments
Quite. I don't think they are talking about his DJing or TV shows... We might guess they mean charity work but "Nobody will ever know what you have done for this country" doesn't fit. Plus Savile was keen to boast about his charity work and was very well known for it.
It does seem from Bruno's own words and from recent articles about Charles that he acted as an advisor to both Charles and Bruno and both were grateful for this.
But "the country"? A strange thing for Charles to write. Not helped by the revelation that Savile was an evil, child abusing creep...
South Georgia comes to mind.
They needn't even serve a jail sentence in UK, just ship them straight off, rather like deportation in the early days of Australia. These people need removal from temptation and the opportunity to offend again.
And don't forget the cost to the NHS for those who have been abused but don't go on to perpetuate the cycle but self abuse instead by drugs, alcohol or self harm and probably big cycles of depression.
Prisoners escaped, even from Alcatraz... I say chemical castration. But that never sits well with society, and I probably haven't thought it through
*awaits backlash*
I'd put em all on an island, give em nothing and leave em to it.
I'm sorry another disturbing blog with a second hand tale about JS.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/good-morning-sinners-warren-ellis-jimmy-savile-and-the-price-of-silence.
Don't loose your faith in human nature, we are by far the majority and have goodness on our side, we can beat this evil
Good call - I do worry about the penguins though ....
I saw that, Schofiled asked where the 58 year old was from presumably he thought it was someone from overseas) and seemed visibly shocked when he said Croydon.
I suppose it is quite shocking if you find out there are such people living quite close by to you, I guess he presumed it would be someone from another country but thats the thing, there are likely paedo's in every country, which is why people have to be careful and teach their children to recognise things such as inappropriate touching etc. its not good to think that everyone is a paedo and to get overly paranoid about it all I suppose, although given whats been posted over the last few weeks I could understand people feeling that way... it was interesting to hear things like Facebook profiles for teenagers between 13-18 year olds cant be found via searches I think? their automatically private until the person becomes 18 (I presume thats to do with being classified as a minor?). I can also imagine teenagers whining and blushing about adding their parents as friends on social network sites lol!.
I don't think the death penalty is to harsh for people like this! I He has had chances but yet abused more kids. In the end of the day, kids should be safe from vile people like this.
That's the sort of thing i mean. I don't think anyone has ever done a study on the financial cost of abuse.
I'm sure they could afford it if they cut back elsewhere. It's a matter of priorities; children's safety clearly isn't top of their list.
If the sentences were to be the same, child abusers may as well kill their victims, knowing they would not get punished any worst, whilst at the same time eliminating their accuser & main witness.
It's the same as with rape.
Life sentences are not the answer, they would likely make matters worst.
It's not just Facbeook either. I've read reports showing they're using sites set up specifically for kids to play games or create their own little world - they often have chat facilities or PM systems the paedophiles use for grooming. Thinking about it, I bet one or two were set up with that exact thing in mind. :eek:
I think it was pointed out that his grave faced the bay/sea to one side but a school to the other I think it totally appropriate that it's corpse be removed - don't really care what they do with it but perhaps the gold coffin could be melted and monies put to good use in helping the victims. It obviously felt strongly about being buried in the gold casket so take it from him, as he took alot of valuable things away from so many - like innocence and childhoods!
Not related to the JS case, but important narrative concerning the judicial system and abuse.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2228191/Nine-people-admit-naming-international-footballers-rape-victim-Twitter-Facebook-judge-orders-pay-thousands-compensation.html
That's an interesting piece and the account is actually quite moving, but it is, nevertheless, idealistic and far from something that has a practical application since that's just one account of the way a community dealt successfully with one offender. What about all the cases where that wouldn't work because an offender is intent on re-offending? And the will to stop, despite support, just isn't there?
I do agree with you though that punitive measures do nothing in the long term and that there has to be a better way - I just don't know what this better way is that offers support to the offender but makes the welfare and safety of children the priority. For those who show no willingness to stop, then I'd have to go with the option below. This one puts the welfare of children first but it also allows offenders a life of sorts and maybe a chance to do something positive with their time.
If current internet memes are to be believed we can all imagine who could be the Christopher Lee King of the Island .....
I’m a long-time lurker but your post struck a note which prompted me to comment. The bit about rehabilitation – you're right, that’s a big problem. In fact, it’s a problem not exclusive to paedophiles, I’ve long argued the focus should be on punishment first. If someone can be rehabilitated then fair enough, second chances and all that. But there’s too many criminals out there who’ve abused far more than just their second chance. Anyway…
The problem with paedophiles specifically is that they cannot be rehabilitated. An ex-work colleague of mine is married to a police officer. Her "specialist area" is sex offenders, particularly paedophiles. A few years back - it was Gary Glitter being arrested in Vietnam which sparked the conversation – she explained in great detail exactly how paedophiles operate. Firstly, she said that despite common perceptions, they are not the typical “dirty old man”, in fact there isn’t really an exact profile of a paedophile – they come from many backgrounds and professions. Some are loners, some are married. Some are old, some are young. Some are men, some are women. Some are rich, some are poor. That’s one of the things which enables them to operate, a type of anonymity – what does a paedophile look like??? They also operate within very organised rings, often more organised and clever than your average gang of armed robbers. But here’s the bit many people probably don’t realise – paedophiles see nothing wrong with what they do. It’s not even a question of them coming out with ways of “justifying” their crimes. They don’t search for excuses. They see what they do as being part of their “sexuality”. My friend’s wife said something which has stuck in my mind ever since – “saying that a paedophile can be rehabilitated is as absurd as saying a gay man can be “cured” and turned straight”.
Surely that alone is a good enough reason to never release these creatures back into society? Aside from the fact they should be punished as much as possible for what they do - Trying to put a young scallywag back on the straight and narrow is one thing, believing that you can ever put trust in someone who is sexually attracted to children – and therefore incurable – is at best, naive. At worst, very dangerous.
Again, second chances are all well and good, but there are some in society for whom a second chance is not appropriate. A second chance for them is enough to wreck more lives. Their victims don’t get a second chance.
I think I'd tend to agree with you ................then again - why does it have to be 'chemical';)
I think the argument against is that it's not about sex it's about power etc. - Still don't think it's a bad idea though but ...........maybe I haven't thought it through.
I'm open to persuasion.:D
http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/poll_anger_erupts_over_tasteless_display_of_book_on_jimmy_savile_in_resort_shop_1_1681475
the story is basically that people got annoyed when they discovered a JS book in the front window of a bookshop and after alot of complaints, the shopkeeper took it down but their debating whether its enforced censorship or whether it was particularly tasteless having such a book appear in the window in the first place.
It says
that seems a little strange - how do you vilify someone by displaying their book in a window? hmm, I suppose you'd have to see a photo of the full display to judge. It is a bit tacky perhaps but its not as if JS himself would profit from it (being dead and all, unless money went to his estate which will be funding the compensation claims from victims so in a sense that'd be a good thing? but its likely a second hand book shop so the shop keeper would be making the profit, not JS or his family). I guess it would feel a bit creepy to read that 'stranger danger' book he was involved with, if that was the book(?). I think he only wrote the forward for that though? it was selling for over £20 on Ebay a few weeks ago, I remember someone posting a link to the auction, that was after they stopped selling it on Amazon - I wonder if someone complained to them about that too?.
If it's true that abuse can lead to abuse then locking people up not only has a direct effect on the number of their victims it prevents the future victims of those victims.
It's different to burgling, mugging etc.
I read somewhere recently that that list has been seriously discredited. Will try to find the page.
http://www.inquisition21.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=3&MMN_position=4:4
Okay so lets see what happens now on this one.
http://news.sky.com/story/1007369/welsh-sex-abuse-claims-cameron-orders-inquiry
But I'm still waiting for the next step on the 'Jimmy Savile and Others' investigation...
I think I heard on Channel 4 News sometime recently (this year or last?) they did a big expose on one such website which seemed pretty dodgy (it has/had house or hotel in its name, I think) - that site was sort of a role play or The Sims game type site targeted at children and teens where you interact with other people and spend 'coins' on accessories and things to add to your 'room' which is your space within the site, if I remember right? other people could send private messages and invite people to chat outside the website probably with web cams etc. Some people were angry about how they'd portrayed the website as being dodgy and claimed it was sensationalist, claiming they've never seen anything inappropriate happen or some such but other comments I saw on another forum that discussed it, said they weren't surprised, it had gone badly downhill since a different company took over the site.
They also mentioned that since Channel 4 heard rumours and investigated the site, high street retailers like WH Smith decided to suspend selling gift cards that could be spent on the website(!).
I probably spend a bit too much time online and have done for years but I've never understood the appeal of spending real money for little things within online games but maybe thats just me? idk. Its like a whole other world...