In need of parenting advice
Long post, sorry.
When my husband and I separated (and subsequently divorced, at my instigation) my son - then 9 - initially took it well but then, egged on by his father and his family, took violently against me. Over a year of Hell followed, including verbal and physical abuse which his father turned a blind eye too. I went from being a strong, resillient person to having a breakdown with the stress of it all but, with a lot of work, I'm fully recovered and have been for over 3 years.
With a lot of time, effort and patience, I won my son back and, despite his father doing his best to turn him against me (and my son, now 14 and who I have a very close relationship with, thank God, has told me what his dad and grandparents said back then and how he felt forced to keep up his vendetta against me) I encourage my son to have a good relationship with both of his parents.
When we moved into our house almost 20 years ago, neighbours told us horror stories of the woman who lives next door to us - she was then in her 30's with 3 children and sleeping with the 17 year old boy (2 years older than her eldest son) of the family we bought our house from. We were told how, as soon as her husband left for work, this boy would climb over the back fence. When the husband moved out, he moved in (which became a pattern - as one left, another replaced him).
That relationship broke down and a succession of men - including one she married and had a son with - have been and gone. My (then) husband used to call her the **** next door and he was as vitriolic about her as I was. He even came home and told me a colleague of his who lives over 10 miles away, when he mentioned where we lived, asked if he knew this woman. It would be fair to say that she doesn't have a good reputation locally.
My issue now is that my ex-husband has moved in with her and both my son and I are mortified. I genuinely don't care that he is with someone else - I chose to end the marriage and I have no bitterness, I honestly and truly want him to be happy, he is a good person - but I am bothered for my son (her son has just left the school mine goes to, and even the kids there make jokes about her being a slag).
My ex-husband has been seeing her for probably coming up to 2 years, but only moved in with her last weekend. I have told him repeatedly that under no circumstances must our son have anything to do with her. I had no issue with my son meeting and spending time with his father's last partner, but I do not want this woman's anywhere near him.
My son knows why I feel so strongly and promised me last Thursday he wouldn't go round there. So imagine how upset I was when he told me on Friday, when I rang him while I was away for a couple of days (I'd arranged for him to stay with his paternal grandparents) that he was going for tea there the following evening. His father does nothing with him, apart from take him to watch football, whereas my son and I do loads together and it's me he comes to for advice, to discuss school work, everything, as should be the case, obviously.
After all the heartache I went through during our difficult period, I obviously treasure the relationship we have now. But I'm struggling to know how to deal with this issue. I'm hurt that he would go skipping off knowing how much it would upset me. It's like a slap in the face.
As childish as I know it is, I've barely spoken with my son since getting home on Sunday. Of course, his father is in his element and he and his parents are both using this as an example of why I am a bad mother (I'm genuinely not). His grandparents even told him on Sunday not to speak to me (he told me this, with a smirk on his face, when getting back from visiting their house).
My son constantly complains to me about how let down he feels by his dad never listening to him, never doing anything with him etc, and tells me what a good mum I am, but he always, always takes his father side. His father gets angry quickly and shouts all the time, whereas things with me are calm. It was our son's birthday a couple of weeks ago and his father sent him a card 'to Son' and included this woman's name on it (I was inwardly furious but said nothing). Our son told me he was upset about that but told his dad he wasn't bothered 'as I didn't want dad to get angry with me'.
Am I being unreasonable? I just feel betrayed.
When my husband and I separated (and subsequently divorced, at my instigation) my son - then 9 - initially took it well but then, egged on by his father and his family, took violently against me. Over a year of Hell followed, including verbal and physical abuse which his father turned a blind eye too. I went from being a strong, resillient person to having a breakdown with the stress of it all but, with a lot of work, I'm fully recovered and have been for over 3 years.
With a lot of time, effort and patience, I won my son back and, despite his father doing his best to turn him against me (and my son, now 14 and who I have a very close relationship with, thank God, has told me what his dad and grandparents said back then and how he felt forced to keep up his vendetta against me) I encourage my son to have a good relationship with both of his parents.
When we moved into our house almost 20 years ago, neighbours told us horror stories of the woman who lives next door to us - she was then in her 30's with 3 children and sleeping with the 17 year old boy (2 years older than her eldest son) of the family we bought our house from. We were told how, as soon as her husband left for work, this boy would climb over the back fence. When the husband moved out, he moved in (which became a pattern - as one left, another replaced him).
That relationship broke down and a succession of men - including one she married and had a son with - have been and gone. My (then) husband used to call her the **** next door and he was as vitriolic about her as I was. He even came home and told me a colleague of his who lives over 10 miles away, when he mentioned where we lived, asked if he knew this woman. It would be fair to say that she doesn't have a good reputation locally.
My issue now is that my ex-husband has moved in with her and both my son and I are mortified. I genuinely don't care that he is with someone else - I chose to end the marriage and I have no bitterness, I honestly and truly want him to be happy, he is a good person - but I am bothered for my son (her son has just left the school mine goes to, and even the kids there make jokes about her being a slag).
My ex-husband has been seeing her for probably coming up to 2 years, but only moved in with her last weekend. I have told him repeatedly that under no circumstances must our son have anything to do with her. I had no issue with my son meeting and spending time with his father's last partner, but I do not want this woman's anywhere near him.
My son knows why I feel so strongly and promised me last Thursday he wouldn't go round there. So imagine how upset I was when he told me on Friday, when I rang him while I was away for a couple of days (I'd arranged for him to stay with his paternal grandparents) that he was going for tea there the following evening. His father does nothing with him, apart from take him to watch football, whereas my son and I do loads together and it's me he comes to for advice, to discuss school work, everything, as should be the case, obviously.
After all the heartache I went through during our difficult period, I obviously treasure the relationship we have now. But I'm struggling to know how to deal with this issue. I'm hurt that he would go skipping off knowing how much it would upset me. It's like a slap in the face.
As childish as I know it is, I've barely spoken with my son since getting home on Sunday. Of course, his father is in his element and he and his parents are both using this as an example of why I am a bad mother (I'm genuinely not). His grandparents even told him on Sunday not to speak to me (he told me this, with a smirk on his face, when getting back from visiting their house).
My son constantly complains to me about how let down he feels by his dad never listening to him, never doing anything with him etc, and tells me what a good mum I am, but he always, always takes his father side. His father gets angry quickly and shouts all the time, whereas things with me are calm. It was our son's birthday a couple of weeks ago and his father sent him a card 'to Son' and included this woman's name on it (I was inwardly furious but said nothing). Our son told me he was upset about that but told his dad he wasn't bothered 'as I didn't want dad to get angry with me'.
Am I being unreasonable? I just feel betrayed.
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Comments
Unfortunately, it become my business when it's the local slag, otherwise I'd entirely agree with you. It's very hurtful to me though when my son makes that decision in the knowledge it would make me - the only one of his parents who actually does have his best interests at heart and who makes him and his welfare a priority - very unhappy. But, as you say, he's old enough to make the decision whereas my issue is how to deal with my feelings about what I see as a betrayal, and that's what I'm struggling with.
Your son is entitled to spend time with his Dad, and its the being together that matters, not the 'doing stuff'.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but I think the issue is, in the main, with you and not your son, ex or his partner
Why is her sexual past relevent though?
Beyond that you unfortunately have little choice in whether your son chooses to spend time with his dad and this women. Unless you want to go to court now to formalize his custody rights there's not much else you can do. And once he reaches 16 he will be able to do whatever he wants anyway.
I'm not a parent but i've always thought the best thing you can do is stick by your kid and try your best to be on their side regardless of the choices they make. 5 years from now your husband would have likely left this woman but your son is still going to be your son. The more you decide to make an issue of this the more likely your are to antagonize him and push him away for good. He is getting old enough to form his own judgments.
Because of her reputation, it's like my son hanging around the local brothel. At his young and impressionable age, I don't want him associating with someone who has very questionable morals. I want him to grow up respecting women as equals and I don't believe mixing with this woman will encourage that view, quite the opposite. Her own sons moved abroad, to the other side of the world, at the first opportunity and I don't blame them.
This is what I'm worried about. I've lost him once, I can't face that again, he needs me, especially when his father is a hopeless parent (always has been) and his grandparents will take every opportunity to put me down.
But I'm struggling with feeling betrayed and kicked in the teeth. I use all my time and (little) spare money to give my son a happy childhood with good memories and the house if full of photos of us all over the place (New York last autumn). He knows how much I sacrifice - willingly - to do this for him.
Moving, unfortunately, isn't an option - I wish it were. Another long and complicated story but also he's only got another 2 years at the local school, which is within walking distance, and I want him to be able to concentrate on his studies in the run up to GCSEs.
And maybe if your son spends a bit of time with her and gets to know her a bit then he'll decide that he doesn't want to be around her anymore, or he may realise that there is more to a person than who they have sex with and that she makes his dad happy so she can't be all bad.
That is his decision to make though.
You say your ex husband is a good man yet you've gone into detail about how he literally turned your son against you. Do you honestly believe he's a good man or do you just want to sound like a reasonable, forgiving person?
Your son is a child and he sounds like he's trying his hardest here to keep everyone happy. That isn't his job. Grow the hell up, talk to your ex husband and reach a compromise. If you can't do that, bite your tongue and make sure your son is happy, looked after and that you're doing what you can to support him. You can't stop him from seeing his dad. You should not try to stop him from seeing his dad, unless you had genuine reason to fear for his safety and emotional well being. In which case, go through the usual legal routes.
You run the risk of screwing up your son indefinitely and alienating him to the point where he may just choose to rid himself of the lot of you as soon as he's old enough. Shame on both you and your ex husband for treating him this way.
I don't normally get upset or angry when I read posts on here, and maybe you haven't explained yourself well, but your post has genuinely left me feeling worried about the damage you and your ex are causing your son.
You are NOT teaching your son to respect women, though. You're basically saying he should respect women unless they're a particular type of woman. You're relying on heresy to judge this woman who I bet you've never spent any real amount of time with.
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You have an issue with this woman and the fact she has had sex with lots of different people, by making it your sons issue too you will be doing more damage to his perception of 'women' than she is!
The fact is, your son is entitled to a relationship with his father. It seems to me that you think your son owes you more love and loyalty than he does his father and should be beholden to you and your wishes at all times. His relationship with his father is different and separate to his relationship with you and he should be able to have an 'equal' relationship with both of you.
Good post
Your son is caught between you and your ex; he will be trying to gain his fathers attention and approval so will do this kind of stuff behind your back if he feels you won't like it. I think at age 14 all you can do is trust your child and his judgement and be there for him as a parent with stability in his life when things are like this. Dictating to him what to do about seeing his dad because of his dad's choice of partner is just going to make you into the bad guy. If you feel he is in danger of being abused (which you've intimated at) then you need to think whether this is a realistic fear or whether you're just seeing it that way as you're angry over it all.
If you feel more abuse may be aimed at you along the way over this latest exploit of your ex, then I'd get some support in from somewhere like Gingerbread. http://www.gingerbread.org.uk
I agree with this
I'm not sure how to actually respond to this. How dare you accuse me of being cruel to my son! You have no idea what I've gone through - and go through on a daily basis to keep a stable home life for my son - or what his father and family are like. The fact I'm still here is a miracle in itself, actually. My primary concern is my son, his emotional well-being and encouraging him to have a relationship with a father who demonstrates on a daily basis his inability to be a good parent - all of which my son sees and experiences, unfortunately, not something I want for him and is another reason I overcompensate with what I do with him. My son and I talk, whereas his father has no idea what he wants to do when he leaves school. You have no idea how much I have to protect my son from to ensure he continues to be that happy, high achieving, popular, funny child I'm proud of.
My ex-husband isn't someone I can talk to - no-one can - without him flying off the handle. I tried to speak with him last week when he was in my house after our son had gone to school and he trashed my kitchen in anger, so what you perceive as 'passive aggression' is just someone who has learned to keep their mouth shut to avoid an angry person getting in their face. My ex-husband didn't deal with our break up well but his immaturity in dealing with it doesn't make him a bad person - he does have good qualities, but is very misdirected sometimes. Again, something I have to shield my son from. I always put a positive spin on a situation when our son has been let down or disappointed by his father, giving a reason for why or how, or reminding him of something good he's done with his dad. My son will only get one shot at childhood and I want him to look back on it fondly - I don't on mine, so it's even more important to me that my son has a happy childhood.
As for feeling guilty about his actions during our difficult time, we do occasionally speak about this but I always, always tell him that I understand why he was angry, and that his reaction was understandable. I don't want him to feel any guilt - I caused that split, his anger was that of a 9 year old boy who had his world torn apart and wasn't helped by a devastated but immature father. He knows I will always be there for him, no matter what.
So yes, shame on me for trying to be a good parent and protecting my son from what I consider to be bad influences.
You're right. I've been researching online about parenting teenage boys and what comes out is their wanting their dad's approval, no matter how bad a father he has. Completely true too, that I'm the one providing the stability.
I've always genuinely believed that, deep down, my ex is a good man. He's hardworking, was always reliable, often sensitive, very sentimental and throughful. He was angry with me for splitting us up - his parents have been married forever - even though he knew we had problems but stuck his head in the sand rather than deal with them. He does have a temper though and its got to the point I can't speak with him without him flying right off the handle. He's no longer the person I spent 23 years with, he's become quite nasty of late (I know the woman next door hates me, he's told me so, she's intimated by me and, understandably, doesn't like him spending any time with me when he's in our house to see our son). I do see why it might come across as conflicting when I say he's a good person but then list things he's done which are anything but, but I'm talking of over a 23+ year period - nothing to do with being 'passive agressive'.
Thanks for the link for Gingerbread. I'd heard of them but hadn't thought of contacting them, so that's really useful.
Your ex husband not dealing with a break up well is not the thing that made me question why you continue to call him a good person. He sounds like a horrible person, if truth be told, so I don't see the point in you trying to make out otherwise. That's where I get the passive agressive vibe from. Not the fact that you have to act in a certain way around your husband - that's survival - but the fact that you come on here, calling a woman a slag while simultaneously telling us that you want your son to respect women, and calling your husband a good person when he poisoned your son against you and gets aggressive and angry if people try to challenge him - to the extent of causing criminal damage to your house.
If you are genuinely worried about your son then you need to call social services or the CAB for initial advice and support. If your husband gets aggressive and violent around you, how do you know he isn't doing it to your son? Did you report the damage he did to the police? Isn't this sending all kinds of alarm bells ringing in your head? Why does your main issue seem to be with this woman?
And you yourself admitted that you barely spoke to your son because he (as you perceived it) went behind your back. That to me doesn't suggest someone who is putting her son first and foremost. Your son has a violent, aggressive father and a mother who doesn't want her son to spend time with him - not because the father is violent and aggressive but because she doesn't want him to spend time with a 'slag'.
It sounds like there are much, much bigger issues going on here than you not approving of your ex husband's current partner and my sympathies lie with your son who sounds like he's firmly stuck in the middle of this mess.
It should never be a parents job to influence a child in this way and ask them to make complex moral judgments on the fathers partner.
I fear you are inadvertently driving an unnecessary wedge between yourself and your son.
I think in England 14 is the age that the courts recognise a child's wishes and opinions so I suggest you roll with it .
I understand that you want to protect your son... but I think you're trying to shield him from the real world. But children are very perceptive and though you might try to create a world in which his father isn't selfish or lazy, your son is probably aware of his father's worst qualities. He's old enough to make his own judgements about people, and I agree with the poster who said that your ex-husband's current partner is none of your business. Unless you fear your son being abused by this woman, unless it is a child protection issue, then you can't 'ban' your son from seeing her. It will only stop him seeing his father and make him resent your control.
What is needed is a little emotional detachment. You might not like this woman, but you can't force your moral viewpoint onto your child. And don't defend your ex. The next time he dissapoints your son, don't try to sugar-coat his failings as a father. Let your son realise what his father's priorities really are - and then perhaps he will realise your value as a mother. Give him some space to grow, let him make mistakes, feel guilty, be unhappy occasionally. Don't try and force your world view onto him, like your husband has obviously done in the past.
As to the relationship your ex is in- you said yourself this woman has a sort of revolving door policy so it is quite likely the situation will sort itself out and you will have wasted your time worrying about it. Your disapproval will likely prolong it if anything, so wish them well and concentrate on something more important.
First thing is go and say sorry to your son about the silent treatment, and cross that off your list of punishments.
And stop huffing with him. He may be a teenager, but you are not.
That's what I'm wondering too. Funny how there's still a double standard these days.
Are you worried she'll trade in your ex for your son?
Just like you, I have left my ex-husband who has caused me an incredible amount of problems (not least of which was almost financial ruin and me having to sell my home and I am still paying the enormous amounts of debts he caused). Since then he has not paid a single penny in child support for our now 5-year-old daughter because he said that I was the one who "broke up the family" and he has generally been an unbelievably uncaring and idiotic excuse of a father. I have posted many times on these boards about his antics. His idea of good parenting is appearing once every few months and driving our 5-year-old to McDonalds at 2am and showing her Chucky the movie about the killer doll. That's the type of person he is and no amount of shouting, pleading, reasoning would change that. Whilst I'm doing everything within my power to provide our daughter with a nice childhood (including spending money I don't have on a private education) he really couldn't give a toss. Yet, our daughter absolutely adores her dad and his side of the family. She LOVES spending time with him and doing whatever crazy moronic things he is doing with her. I'd say she much prefers it to going to museums/play centres/zoo/farms with me on weekends.
I'm posting this because I understand the anger you are feeling. HOWEVER, you cannot expect gratitude and total obedience from your kid because you are doing so much and his dad is useless. Your son is very much entitled to love his dad just as much as he loves you, even though he is a lousy dad. And you cannot expect your son to badmouth his own father or his grandparents to you. It's very unfair. He is probably just telling you what you want to hear and he is telling them what they want to hear.
You need to swallow your pride (and your tongue) and allow your son to have a proper relationship with his dad and whichever partner he chooses to have. Parenting is not a job where you can expect rewards because you have done X amounts of things.
Absolutely agree with every word.