Eastern Europeans in your town

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  • mevilhoneymevilhoney Posts: 685
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    I can't see your point. The rioters were not immigrants. South Asian people protected the high streets near me - it was brilliant - but they were keeping the law, not breaking it.

    Mainly the sons and daughters of Caribbean immigrants. My point is mass immigration leads to racial,cultural and religious tensions, And this `oh they`re South Asians,brilliant,they keep the law` experience does not detract from the gradual destruction of a unifying culture,so vital to stability.
  • JB3JB3 Posts: 9,308
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    mevilhoney wrote: »
    Mainly the sons and daughters of Caribbean immigrants. My point is mass immigration leads to racial,cultural and religious tensions, And this `oh they`re South Asians,brilliant,they keep the law` experience does not detract from the gradual destruction of a unifying culture,so vital to stability.
    I've never really understood what our unifying culture is, I know what it is to me, but I know others have an entirely different understanding.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    mevilhoney wrote: »
    Mainly the sons and daughters of Caribbean immigrants. My point is mass immigration leads to racial,cultural and religious tensions, And this `oh they`re South Asians,brilliant,they keep the law` experience does not detract from the gradual destruction of a unifying culture,so vital to stability.

    Why? Crime rates are sharply down in almost all categories from 20 years ago. From a crime point of view, this seems to be a golden age.

    And whether the rioters were 'mainly the sons and daughters of caribbean immigrants' depends where you live.
    in Haringey, the figures revealed that 55% of defendants in court over riot-related charges were black, compared to a 17% black population; in Salford, 94% of rioters in court were white, compared to an 88% white population, and 6% of rioters were black, compared to a 2% black population

    And that has nothing to do with immigration: the biggest identifiable category were young, unemployed males, of all ethnicities; very few convictions were of women, and few were of people with jobs.
  • Chris MarkChris Mark Posts: 4,897
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    cas1977 wrote: »
    I agree with you on some points, as I live in Spain, and in Moraira/Teulada on the Costa Blanca, there is a very large number of Brits, Germans, and Dutch living here. But I think it is a different thing, as most european foreigners who come and live in Spain, are retired, bringing money with them and I think are a big help to the economy here.
    Younger expats build businesses, or just get regular jobs. I don't know of anyone who comes to Spain for hand outs though? (They wouldn't get it for a start!).

    But on the other hand, the expats here are similar to the immigrants in the UK, because they also like to stick to their own kind, and lots of retired people tend not to speak much Spanish, and they can do that because a lot of Spanish speak excellent English. Most of them have english television and there are plenty of english restaurants and english food shops.
    I don't think integration is a problem, simply because the brits aren't going to stand out from the Spanish.
    I can't say much for the working brits out here, but I would imagine that the retired brits wouldn't necessarily befriend and socialise with the spanish, I think it's mostly to do with the language barrier, and different cultures etc, and so I don't blame the immigrants in the UK for all sticking together.
    We're starting to have numbers of Eastern Europeans here now as well, and as much as I don't mind them, I don't think I'd socialise or be best friends with them.
    We have got very few muslims here, and the few I've seen have all been dressed in the traditional costumes wearing those scarves, and that I dislike. They really stand out, and not in a nice way either.


    Yes but that assumes that all expats in Spain are beneficial and most immigrants the UK are cheating the system, most aren't. Many British people on the Costas are decent people who have learned the language, but many haven't and I know this because of family members who live out there and their Spanish is rudimentary at best and they have lived there for 13 years. I've met their friends and many of them are not fluent in Spanish either and to be honest I've met more Polish people in the UK who speak English. One of my friends has a Polish boyfriend who has lived in the UK for over 12 years, he works as a chef and is completely fluent in English- he's even picked up a London accent. Compare and contrast.

    As for many Spanish speaking excellent English, well that might be true in the areas full of tourists and the big cities but actually Spain lags behind when compared to most EU countries on English proficiency (22% of Spanish people have some knowledge of English compared to 90% of Swedes). The best English speakers in Europe outside of the British Isles are found in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Malta, which makes sense considering that Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Dutch are not global languages, also like English they are Germanic languages. Spanish on the other hand is a global language spoken by over 400 million people, so there's less of an incentive to learn English, although more Spanish are learning it due to the increasing prominence of English in the international business world. That said more Spanish people speak English than British people speak Spanish. I don't think Eastern Europeans stand out here any more than British people in Spain do to be honest.

    Why wouldn't you socialise or be friends with an Eastern European? I make friends with people based on their individual qualities and how I get along with them, I don't judge them based on their ethnicity or nationality. If you're not going to sit down and have a proper conversation with these people then you're being wilfully ignorant in my opinion, you're passing judgement on people you don't even want to engage with....
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    Chris Mark wrote: »


    Why wouldn't you socialise or be friends with an Eastern European? I make friends with people based on their individual qualities and how I get along with them, I don't judge them based on their ethnicity or nationality. If you're not going to sit down and have a proper conversation with these people then you're being wilfully ignorant in my opinion, you're passing judgement on people you don't even want to engage with....

    If they not speak your language,It would be real hard to be friends or socialise with them.
  • rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    If they not speak your language,It would be real hard to be friends or socialise with them.

    Brilliant
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    Jackiebo wrote: »
    VIZ this- can no -one imagine this same speech being made in another country about Britons?

    I think everybody could imagine the same said in any country about any large influx of immigrants.

    So why is large scale immigration being imposed on any people in any country where it is happening?

    Just trying to understand the double standards.
    An immigrant is motivated by selfish reasons, the non immigrant too.
    Yet it appears that one set of selfish reasons is more equal than others.
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    Sadly a lot of romanians really hate romany gypsies. My generally lovely romanian neighbour was beaten up in the street by people calling him a gypsy, and he was doubly unamused because he had not only been beaten up, but mistaken for someone he didn't like himself.

    How bizarrely bitter and angry you sound. I really doubt that you live somewhere with more Polish people than I do - almost all our small food shops are Polish, we have Polish bars, Polish churches even (pleasingly I think) a Polish pizza shop. And I don't even faintly recognise your description. Our Polish people do not drink in the street, they don't live in horrible dirty houses or poo in the garden (what??? seriously, what???) or make the streets "filthy". They have the reputation for being hard working, law-abiding and easy to get along with. I have never, ever seen someone pushing a push chair and drinking alcohol at the same time. Perhaps you live in a very unpleasant area? But if so, I can promise it is not because of the East Europeans: I live in a nice, quiet, homely area where we all look after our neighbours.

    You appear to have swallowed a Daily Express whole. When did you last see someone killing a swan? I live near the Grand Union canal, and often see Polish men fishing, and the swans keep right on swanning, unmolested by anyone.

    You can't possibly blame the riots on immigration. What an opportunist attempt.

    So basically what you are saying is that it is a "class/income" issue?

    I would agree.

    What I don't understand is that if you (or anybody) knows there are people already in this country who are falling behind, why are you happy with the idea that they are more marginalized by millions taking the place of what they can strive for?

    There are limited places on the upwards mobility ladder, it maybe that some can climb it without coming from the correct backgrounds, without the typical middle class, well educated/book read families behind them. And the middle classes may even have to rub shoulders with those who don't know their Chekov from their Dickens.

    Of course that would be terrible.:o

    It sounds like the ultimate snobs charter, ignore and marginalize the lower classes and import people "more like us".
  • djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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    Chris Mark wrote: »
    Yes but that assumes that all expats in Spain are beneficial and most immigrants the UK are cheating the system, most aren't. Many British people on the Costas are decent people who have learned the language, but many haven't and I know this because of family members who live out there and their Spanish is rudimentary at best and they have lived there for 13 years. I've met their friends and many of them are not fluent in Spanish either and to be honest I've met more Polish people in the UK who speak English. One of my friends has a Polish boyfriend who has lived in the UK for over 12 years, he works as a chef and is completely fluent in English- he's even picked up a London accent. Compare and contrast.

    As for many Spanish speaking excellent English, well that might be true in the areas full of tourists and the big cities but actually Spain lags behind when compared to most EU countries on English proficiency (22% of Spanish people have some knowledge of English compared to 90% of Swedes). The best English speakers in Europe outside of the British Isles are found in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Malta, which makes sense considering that Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Dutch are not global languages, also like English they are Germanic languages. Spanish on the other hand is a global language spoken by over 400 million people, so there's less of an incentive to learn English, although more Spanish are learning it due to the increasing prominence of English in the international business world. That said more Spanish people speak English than British people speak Spanish. I don't think Eastern Europeans stand out here any more than British people in Spain do to be honest.

    Why wouldn't you socialise or be friends with an Eastern European? I make friends with people based on their individual qualities and how I get along with them, I don't judge them based on their ethnicity or nationality. If you're not going to sit down and have a proper conversation with these people then you're being wilfully ignorant in my opinion, you're passing judgement on people you don't even want to engage with....

    Excellent post. I live in the Meadows (which is an area of Nottingham with lots of Europeans) and find some of them more friendly than Brittish people
  • riceutenriceuten Posts: 5,876
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    The Polish food in Lidl wouldn't be there if Polish people hadn't come here. I love their cold meats and sausages so I'm glad they are here.

    Halal food. You can ram it into the brown hole beetchees. :D

    They had some of the Polish stuff beforehand anyway, as Germans love their Polish sausages (kabanos, Krakowska etc etc). The cold meat selections in Aldi and Lidl are great.
  • djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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    And what annoys me is the fact if you speak up against them you are the worst in the world, the racist card is thrown about. But as was mentioned earlier the UKIP results are saying it all.

    The problem is these folk are an employers dream, pay them peanuts, make them work long hours meaning more profits, and of course this is all great for the government, all at the expense of the average working man. But do the government not see the extra burden on services and the costs involved?

    I work with a guy who worked here for a couple of years, saved his wages and went back home to Slovakia and bought himself a nice bug apartment which he now rents out, he's over here living is squalor saving again to buy another, this is money that's not going back into our economy.

    They work very long hours. I once asked a girl if she wanted to go out with me after she finished her shift at 11pm, but she declined as she had to go back to work at 7am the next morning :o
  • NightFox_DancerNightFox_Dancer Posts: 14,739
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    Sainsbury's do this lovely Polish chocolate which has a cream fondant with raspberry filling, I've also tried halva which is rather tasty as well. :kitty:
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    I think everybody could imagine the same said in any country about any large influx of immigrants.

    So why is large scale immigration being imposed on any people in any country where it is happening?

    Just trying to understand the double standards.
    An immigrant is motivated by selfish reasons, the non immigrant too.
    Yet it appears that one set of selfish reasons is more equal than others.

    In what way?
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    jjwales wrote: »
    In what way?

    Immigrants are defended to the hilt for their decision to emigrate.
    Peoples receiving the influx are vilified for saying they don't want it.

    Both are based on personal decisions as to what is perceived as being a "better life" for themselves.
    There is no difference between the decisions.

    And the issue is so slanted that there never is a discussion about whether emigrating does lead to a better life for anybody or any real discussion about the negative effects it has on people.

    Yet as we have home grown terrorists now, perhaps there should be some discussion about whether immigrants are making the best decisions for themselves and their families/descendants?

    It seems bizarre to me that overall immigration has so much support from the left yet the only real advantage that seems to matter is the financial considerations.
    People move here because they can get more money, how is irrelevant. They can be richer. Not exactly a socialist principle I would have thought.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,546
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    Immigrants are defended to the hilt for their decision to emigrate.
    Peoples receiving the influx are vilified for saying they don't want it..
    Well, it is rather silly and indefensible to say you don't want any immigration, when migration has always been an important part of human history. I've no problem with people just wanting controls on immigration, as long as they're not saying it from a racist viewpoint.
    It seems bizarre to me that overall immigration has so much support from the left yet the only real advantage that seems to matter is the financial considerations.
    People move here because they can get more money, how is irrelevant. They can be richer. Not exactly a socialist principle I would have thought.
    Improving people's quality of life (if they're escaping from poverty) could well be though. And the free movement of people is probably a socialist principle too.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 68,508
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    So basically what you are saying is that it is a "class/income" issue?

    I would agree.

    What I don't understand is that if you (or anybody) knows there are people already in this country who are falling behind, why are you happy with the idea that they are more marginalized by millions taking the place of what they can strive for?
    I don't know why you are saying this. I don't live in an affluent area at all. I live in one of the cheaper suburbs of outer London in an area of mixed owner occupied, council and private rented housing. The local high school has pupils speaking 40 languages and double the national average number of pupils qualifying for free school meals. So if you picture me swanning round a leafy suburb looking down at the hoi polloi, you couldn't be more wrong.

    I have already said that I disagree with employers being allowed to recruit 'agency workers' from overseas at very low rates of pay, and I think legislation should be introduced to prevent them from doing so.

    That does not mean that I have to respect people who go on about Polish people using their gardens as toilets.
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    jjwales wrote: »
    Well, it is rather silly and indefensible to say you don't want any immigration, when migration has always been an important part of human history. I've no problem with people just wanting controls on immigration, as long as they're not saying it from a racist viewpoint.


    Improving people's quality of life (if they're escaping from poverty) could well be though. And the free movement of people is probably a socialist principle too.

    Well that's the "if" isn't it?
    And poverty is relative.

    The second largest number of French people outside France is in London I've seen it posted.
    Are they escaping from poverty?

    And why should a person's desire to escape poverty be accepted at the expense of pushing another person into poverty?

    Or are you suggesting that we have no people in this country living on the bread line?
    And what about those who don't leave their countries, who are poor, who then have to compete for goods, housing and services with those earning overseas?

    What do you think it does to communities when some members of that community are getting relatively large sums of money from overseas?
    There's division and the poorest get even more marginalised.
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    jjwales wrote: »
    Well, it is rather silly and indefensible to say you don't want any immigration, when migration has always been an important part of human history. I've no problem with people just wanting controls on immigration, as long as they're not saying it from a racist viewpoint.


    Improving people's quality of life (if they're escaping from poverty) could well be though. And the free movement of people is probably a socialist principle too.

    The more people that move here will affect the quality of life of people already here.
    >:(
  • Richard1960Richard1960 Posts: 20,336
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    dragonzord wrote: »
    The more people that move here will affect the quality of life of people already here.
    >:(

    Certainly will do the influx has already caused wage deflation in largely unskilled work.:(
  • LuverlyAJLuverlyAJ Posts: 673
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    Mark1974 wrote: »
    Here in Wakefield we have a very sizeable population of EU migrants from the usual countries in Eastern Europe. By and large they have settled here without problems, although they remain in their own communities and I don't see much integration.

    There are sometimes 'tensions' in one part of town where their on street drinking upsets the Muslim community. That's about it though.

    I love the food shops they have opened and I've become a big fan of their beers.

    What's your experiences? Have they been made welcome in your town? Have any issues occurred as a result of them coming to your town?

    We moved from Luton to escape the Asian Muslim invasion, the Eastern Europeans here on the outskirts of Milton Keynes are just westerners. They seem to work in bars, cafés, shops and car wash places.
    The only issues that I hear about are people complaining that the duck and goose population of MKs big lakes is declining :o
  • LuverlyAJLuverlyAJ Posts: 673
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    I live in one of the cheaper suburbs of outer London in an area of mixed owner occupied, council and private rented housing. The local high school has pupils speaking 40 languages and double the national average number of pupils qualifying for free school meals.

    That sounds awful, awful to live in and a mess. 40 languages and poverty.

    This is not what we should be aiming for.
  • Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    I don't know why you are saying this. I don't live in an affluent area at all. I live in one of the cheaper suburbs of outer London in an area of mixed owner occupied, council and private rented housing. The local high school has pupils speaking 40 languages and double the national average number of pupils qualifying for free school meals. So if you picture me swanning round a leafy suburb looking down at the hoi polloi, you couldn't be more wrong.

    I have already said that I disagree with employers being allowed to recruit 'agency workers' from overseas at very low rates of pay, and I think legislation should be introduced to prevent them from doing so.

    That does not mean that I have to respect people who go on about Polish people using their gardens as toilets.

    So in other words you live in an area that is part of the biggest financial centre in the world where people can make a living, better themselves financially but you want those limited places for that opportunity denied to those from outside London in favour of people from overseas.

    You talk about council estates.
    Have you any idea how impossible it is for a person from elsewhere in the country to get on a council waiting list compared to a person arriving here as an immigrant?
    A council cannot tell an immigrant to go back to where they were living and refuse a place on the waiting list, but they can to somebody British trying to move to London.

    Why do you think so many council estates in London have been filled up with immigrant families when there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, who would want to move to London for work from within the UK?
  • dragonzorddragonzord Posts: 1,585
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    So in other words you live in an area that is part of the biggest financial centre in the world where people can make a living, better themselves financially but you want those limited places for that opportunity denied to those from outside London in favour of people from overseas.

    You talk about council estates.
    Have you any idea how impossible it is for a person from elsewhere in the country to get on a council waiting list compared to a person arriving here as an immigrant?
    A council cannot tell an immigrant to go back to where they were living and refuse a place on the waiting list, but they can to somebody British trying to move to London.


    Why do you think so many council estates in London have been filled up with immigrant families when there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, who would want to move to London for work from within the UK?

    That's so wrong as British people should be top of list for housing needs. As in immigrant homeland ,nationals should be the top priority.
  • CSJBCSJB Posts: 6,188
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    LuverlyAJ wrote: »
    We moved from Luton to escape the Asian Muslim invasion, the Eastern Europeans here on the outskirts of Milton Keynes are just westerners. They seem to work in bars, cafés, shops and car wash places.
    The only issues that I hear about are people complaining that the duck and goose population of MKs big lakes is declining :o

    I don't have a problem with the Eastern European immigrants (the Roma excepted), apart from the huge scale of their immigration which has caused a multitude of problems.
    They seem to have settled in broad areas around the uk, and in my town are spread out everywhere, not in isolated pockets.
    Those that choose to stay will be absorbed into the British way of life within a generation.

    Asian muslims on the other hand, generally form ghettos or large pockets of people who have no intention of integrating with our society, they much prefer their own culture.
    It will take hundreds of years ( if ever ) for the majority of them to be absorbed into British society.
    Parts of Britain will become like Northern Ireland, with two distinct cultures living in a state of permanent animosity.
  • LuverlyAJLuverlyAJ Posts: 673
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    CSJB wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with the Eastern European immigrants (the Roma excepted), apart from the huge scale of their immigration which has caused a multitude of problems.
    They seem to have settled in broad areas around the uk, and in my town are spread out everywhere, not in isolated pockets.
    Those that choose to stay will be absorbed into the British way of life within a generation.

    Asian muslims on the other hand, generally form ghettos or large pockets of people who have no intention of integrating with our society, they much prefer their own culture.
    It will take hundreds of years ( if ever ) for the majority of them to be absorbed into British society.
    Parts of Britain will become like Northern Ireland, with two distinct cultures living in a state of permanent animosity.

    That sums it up nicely
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