Aliens 3 and 4 are vapid. Both were created out of a need to continue a franchise with Sigourney Weaver, both therefore had poor / ludicrous / contrived premises and are pretty much artistically bankrupt, despite the best efforts of their directors. Aliens had a strong premise and made logical sense, the following movies didn't. In the case of Alien 3, they'd built half the sets before they even had a script. That shows where the priorities were. Alien 3 is Fincher's weakest film (and YES I did see Benjamin Button), and Resurrection is definitely Jeunet's weakest film... outside of his one foray into Hollywood he's not put a foot wrong.
Oh, and I dunno... I guess you can get cheap cred points for saying "I hated Newt", but she was awesome. And gave us the line "she doesn't have bad dreams because she's just a piece of plastic".
Oh, and I dunno... I guess you can get cheap cred points for saying "I hated Newt", but she was awesome.
o_0 What's with "cheap cred points"? Just because you liked her doesn't mean everyone else would feel the same way. Seriously, how can you say when we all know reviews and opinions of films are entirely subjective?
Which of these do you think is the better film? I've always held the belief that it's Ridley Scott's film. It's just a sci-fi masterpiece. I really Aliens, it's like a good popcorn film should. But it's not as perfect and timeless as Alien which is far superior.
I agree. Alien was better. I enjoyed Aliens but while it was atmospheric it was not as spooky, not as groundbreaking, and lacked the impact of the original. However I would also say that it was a different type of film, more sci-fi action than sci-fi horror, so any comparison has to take account of that.
I'm sure we've had this conversation about a million times.
All I can do is say how I felt when I first saw the films.
The first time I saw Alien I thought it was excellent. Basically because there was only a few people in it and there was a lot of suspense. Another reason I loved it was because the characters actually spoke to esch other like normal adults.
First time I saw Aliens I hated it. It was full of exactly what I hate about films - people trying to be hard, running around with guns, chewing gum in that hard way, coming out with stupid one liners. Absolutely no suspense whatsoever, not in the same way the original had suspense. That is why I've always prefered Alien. It's just a better film in every way.
One thing I've noticed about films over the years is that loads of action NEVER makes up for a average script.
Alien will always be a fine classic much like odyssey but you cant beat aliens for the way they got them
and the slime employees
You are dog meat Pal
He's just a grunt he cant make that decision, no offence
No offence taken, I say we evacuate and nuke the whole site from orbit
One of my fave parts was Ripley running over the alien after the first time they went in and her future *boyfriend* said you will blow the transaxle
The comedy was great too, what dyou meAn they cut the electricity, how can they cut the electricity, they are animals
And whatshername in the tunnel being cornered in the end, thats right vasquez of the have you ever beenmistaken for man to which she replied no have you? you always were an arsehole, before detonating their hand grenades
Both very different films. What Cameron did with Aliens however was to make a perfect sequel, which stayed true to the original, but expanded it and took it in a fresh direction.
I feel like I wouldn't enjoy either film as much if the other didn't exist. Aliens is probably the one I enjoy a little bit more and the one I saw first but it made me seek out Alien.
Both very different films. What Cameron did with Aliens however was to make a perfect sequel, which stayed true to the original, but expanded it and took it in a fresh direction.
quite, there could never be another alien 1, it had to be 2
3 despite being different and had a few directors was quite brilliant too
quite, there could never be another alien 1, it had to be 2
3 despite being different and had a few directors was quite brilliant too
after that it went downhill
I'm a big fan of Alien3, especially the Director's Cut / Extended Version. I think the nihilistic tone is classic Fincher, but at the time, I'm not sure people were quite ready for him, especially off the back of Aliens, which is what people were expecting again.
Another vote for Alien 3 here.Think this is a very atmospheric film with fine performances from the main players.Alien Resurrection - meh. And don't even get me started on the abominations which were the AVP films....
Actually, fair play - "nihilistic" is a very good description of Alien 3. "A doctrine holding that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated". That's an excellent summary. Not sure how that translates to a good film, but there we are.
There's not really much of an argument here in terms of out-and-out quality, Alien is just one of the finest films of all time.
Aliens however set the benchmark for the modern action film, and is a great example of a sequel standing on it's own merits and in no way trying to replicate it's predecessor.
I'm glad that Alien 3 is now able to be looked at by so many people without being as quickly dismissed as 'rubbish', it's outlook is so bleak it was years ahead of it's time IMHO, I've always liked it for that, but I'm strange like that.
I agree this a pointless thread, both great films, unlike their sequels.
I feel the need to respond though because I really do not get this growing internet trend to bash Cameron's Aliens.
If I did have to pick a "which is best" as childish and stupid as that is, Aliens would be the one.
As good as it was Alien was a simple horror film elevated by a truly original monster and some great character twists.
Aliens on the other hand took the monster and elevated it further. Cameron added depth to the creature. In the first film, we hadn't seen its full life cycle. Indeed, if they had gone with Scotts vision, he'd come up with a fairly silly idea that captured human slowly mutate into the alien eggs. Yes, they turn into eggs. Which was a bit silly. The studio thankfully dropped that idea from the finished film.
Cameron came up with the more realistic idea of them being like insects and having a Queen that laid the eggs. A simple idea, but it really clever in how he then created all kinds of maternal issues off the back of that.
Those slagging off the Newt subplot have managed to totally miss the point of Aliens. In the final battle between Ripley and the Queen, you effectively have two matriarchs fighting for the survival of their "kids." There are all sorts of maternal issues going on her, and it elevates the film above the usual macho nonsense that some of you are branding it with.
He also had points in the film where the Aliens do intelligent things and leave the Marines totally bewildered.
And as for claims that it is just about badass posing spaces marines spouting off one liners, the marines get their badass butts whupped in the film. Again you have all missed the point. Far from glorifying the macho, it shows that the marines heavy handed zero intelligence, all guns blazing tactics are actually the wrong thing to do.
Finally, it goes further with the corporate sell out. In the first film it was the emotionless Android that sold the crew out. In this one its the company man who happily does so, prepared to kill all the Marines and have Ripley+Newt impregnated if it means he can make on fast buck. The Android in this one, Bishop, actually ends up showing more humanity than some of his human counterparts.
All in all its a great ride of emotions and pathos wrapped up in an action film.
And on a final note, I just hope Scott's forthcoming Prometheus doesn't end up making the Alien mythology even more messy and silly. I hope its a corker, but I do get the feeling that people are over hyping it and it can never live up to that hype. I do fear he's gone back to the Humans mutating idea.
I agree this a pointless thread, both great films, unlike their sequels.
I feel the need to respond though because I really do not get this growing internet trend to bash Cameron's Aliens.
If I did have to pick a "which is best" as childish and stupid as that is, Aliens would be the one.
As good as it was Alien was a simple horror film elevated by a truly original monster and some great character twists.
Aliens on the other hand took the monster and elevated it further. Cameron added depth to the creature. In the first film, we hadn't seen its full life cycle. Indeed, if they had gone with Scotts vision, he'd come up with a fairly silly idea that captured human slowly mutate into the alien eggs. Yes, they turn into eggs. Which was a bit silly. The studio thankfully dropped that idea from the finished film.
Cameron came up with the more realistic idea of them being like insects and having a Queen that laid the eggs. A simple idea, but it really clever in how he then created all kinds of maternal issues off the back of that.
Those slagging off the Newt subplot have managed to totally miss the point of Aliens. In the final battle between Ripley and the Queen, you effectively have two matriarchs fighting for the survival of their "kids." There are all sorts of maternal issues going on her, and it elevates the film above the usual macho nonsense that some of you are branding it with.
He also had points in the film where the Aliens do intelligent things and leave the Marines totally bewildered.
And as for claims that it is just about badass posing spaces marines spouting off one liners, the marines get their badass butts whupped in the film. Again you have all missed the point. Far from glorifying the macho, it shows that the marines heavy handed zero intelligence, all guns blazing tactics are actually the wrong thing to do.
Finally, it goes further with the corporate sell out. In the first film it was the emotionless Android that sold the crew out. In this one its the company man who happily does so, prepared to kill all the Marines and have Ripley+Newt impregnated if it means he can make on fast buck. The Android in this one, Bishop, actually ends up showing more humanity than some of his human counterparts.
All in all its a great ride of emotions and pathos wrapped up in an action film.
And on a final note, I just hope Scott's forthcoming Prometheus doesn't end up making the Alien mythology even more messy and silly. I hope its a corker, but I do get the feeling that people are over hyping it and it can never live up to that hype. I do fear he's gone back to the Humans mutating idea.
totally agree with you
btw - i love this - vasquez is the irish woman in steerage with the 2 kids in titanic. and jc's stepmother in terminator 2
Alien for me - it's got all the tension (I still jump when the facehugger smashes into John Hurt's helmet, and I know it's coming) that a proper horror film should have.
Aliens is great, and different in tone, but it's just not as good (a top 100 film, not a top 10 like the original)
I'm a big fan of Alien3, especially the Director's Cut / Extended Version. I think the nihilistic tone is classic Fincher, but at the time, I'm not sure people were quite ready for him, especially off the back of Aliens, which is what people were expecting again.
Another good thing about alien 3 was the way the misogynists changed
A very clever series of films, weaving in so many issues.
I agree this a pointless thread, both great films, unlike their sequels.
I feel the need to respond though because I really do not get this growing internet trend to bash Cameron's Aliens.
If I did have to pick a "which is best" as childish and stupid as that is, Aliens would be the one.
It's only lighthearted discussion, no real need to vehemently denounce it as childish and stupid.
I agree with all your observations about Aliens btw. In some ways, it's a Vietnam analogy. Over-confident marines with high tech military might having their arses handed to them. The other thing too was how seminal the whole look and tone of the marines are. They're a common sci-fi staple now, but Cameron was first I think.
One of the things to look out for when you're ever at the airport are those low tow-truck things that pull the aircraft around. It's then obvious what was used to make the marines' APC vehicle.
btw - i love this - vasquez is the irish woman in steerage with the 2 kids in titanic. and jc's stepmother in terminator 2
She is also one of crew members in Star Trek Generations on the Enterprise B. And that was in response to when they originally casting for Star Trek Next gen, they wanted her as Tasha Yar, as that character must of been obviously influence from Vasquez from Aliens. but she said no....
I recognised her in T2 when I saw that, but had no idea she was in Titanic when I first watched it in 1997. But noticed when I saw it for the second time on Friday though. I was like WTF :eek::eek::eek:
She looked really odd as a lady who is of obvious Latino decent with Freckles and a red hair dye and an Irish accent!!!! :eek::eek:
She is also one of crew members in Star Trek Generations on the Enterprise B. And that was in response to when they originally casting for Star Trek Next gen, they wanted her as Tasha Yar, as that character must of been obviously influence from Vasquez from Aliens. but she said no....
I recognised her in T2 when I saw that, but had no idea she was in Titanic when I first watched it in 1997. But noticed when I saw it for the second time on Friday though. I was like WTF :eek::eek::eek: She looked really odd as a lady who is of obvious Latino decent with Freckles and a red hair dye and an Irish accent!!!! :eek::eek:
I don't think she is , she just played it that way in Aliens .
Comments
'imo'
Oh, and I dunno... I guess you can get cheap cred points for saying "I hated Newt", but she was awesome. And gave us the line "she doesn't have bad dreams because she's just a piece of plastic".
o_0 What's with "cheap cred points"? Just because you liked her doesn't mean everyone else would feel the same way. Seriously, how can you say when we all know reviews and opinions of films are entirely subjective?
I agree. Alien was better. I enjoyed Aliens but while it was atmospheric it was not as spooky, not as groundbreaking, and lacked the impact of the original. However I would also say that it was a different type of film, more sci-fi action than sci-fi horror, so any comparison has to take account of that.
All I can do is say how I felt when I first saw the films.
The first time I saw Alien I thought it was excellent. Basically because there was only a few people in it and there was a lot of suspense. Another reason I loved it was because the characters actually spoke to esch other like normal adults.
First time I saw Aliens I hated it. It was full of exactly what I hate about films - people trying to be hard, running around with guns, chewing gum in that hard way, coming out with stupid one liners. Absolutely no suspense whatsoever, not in the same way the original had suspense. That is why I've always prefered Alien. It's just a better film in every way.
One thing I've noticed about films over the years is that loads of action NEVER makes up for a average script.
and the slime employees
You are dog meat Pal
He's just a grunt he cant make that decision, no offence
No offence taken, I say we evacuate and nuke the whole site from orbit
One of my fave parts was Ripley running over the alien after the first time they went in and her future *boyfriend* said you will blow the transaxle
The comedy was great too, what dyou meAn they cut the electricity, how can they cut the electricity, they are animals
And whatshername in the tunnel being cornered in the end, thats right vasquez of the have you ever beenmistaken for man to which she replied no have you? you always were an arsehole, before detonating their hand grenades
quite, there could never be another alien 1, it had to be 2
3 despite being different and had a few directors was quite brilliant too
after that it went downhill
I'm a big fan of Alien3, especially the Director's Cut / Extended Version. I think the nihilistic tone is classic Fincher, but at the time, I'm not sure people were quite ready for him, especially off the back of Aliens, which is what people were expecting again.
Aliens however set the benchmark for the modern action film, and is a great example of a sequel standing on it's own merits and in no way trying to replicate it's predecessor.
I'm glad that Alien 3 is now able to be looked at by so many people without being as quickly dismissed as 'rubbish', it's outlook is so bleak it was years ahead of it's time IMHO, I've always liked it for that, but I'm strange like that.
I feel the need to respond though because I really do not get this growing internet trend to bash Cameron's Aliens.
If I did have to pick a "which is best" as childish and stupid as that is, Aliens would be the one.
As good as it was Alien was a simple horror film elevated by a truly original monster and some great character twists.
Aliens on the other hand took the monster and elevated it further. Cameron added depth to the creature. In the first film, we hadn't seen its full life cycle. Indeed, if they had gone with Scotts vision, he'd come up with a fairly silly idea that captured human slowly mutate into the alien eggs. Yes, they turn into eggs. Which was a bit silly. The studio thankfully dropped that idea from the finished film.
Cameron came up with the more realistic idea of them being like insects and having a Queen that laid the eggs. A simple idea, but it really clever in how he then created all kinds of maternal issues off the back of that.
Those slagging off the Newt subplot have managed to totally miss the point of Aliens. In the final battle between Ripley and the Queen, you effectively have two matriarchs fighting for the survival of their "kids." There are all sorts of maternal issues going on her, and it elevates the film above the usual macho nonsense that some of you are branding it with.
He also had points in the film where the Aliens do intelligent things and leave the Marines totally bewildered.
And as for claims that it is just about badass posing spaces marines spouting off one liners, the marines get their badass butts whupped in the film. Again you have all missed the point. Far from glorifying the macho, it shows that the marines heavy handed zero intelligence, all guns blazing tactics are actually the wrong thing to do.
Finally, it goes further with the corporate sell out. In the first film it was the emotionless Android that sold the crew out. In this one its the company man who happily does so, prepared to kill all the Marines and have Ripley+Newt impregnated if it means he can make on fast buck. The Android in this one, Bishop, actually ends up showing more humanity than some of his human counterparts.
All in all its a great ride of emotions and pathos wrapped up in an action film.
And on a final note, I just hope Scott's forthcoming Prometheus doesn't end up making the Alien mythology even more messy and silly. I hope its a corker, but I do get the feeling that people are over hyping it and it can never live up to that hype. I do fear he's gone back to the Humans mutating idea.
totally agree with you
btw - i love this - vasquez is the irish woman in steerage with the 2 kids in titanic. and jc's stepmother in terminator 2
NO WAY! But now you mention it, "Wolfie's fine honey, Wolfie's just fine" you are absolutely right.
(Only seen Titanic once, never again so can't comment on that).
Aliens is great, and different in tone, but it's just not as good (a top 100 film, not a top 10 like the original)
A very clever series of films, weaving in so many issues.
Agree with every word. There's an awful lot of missing the point on this thread re Aliens, and on this forum re Cameron.
It's only lighthearted discussion, no real need to vehemently denounce it as childish and stupid.
I agree with all your observations about Aliens btw. In some ways, it's a Vietnam analogy. Over-confident marines with high tech military might having their arses handed to them. The other thing too was how seminal the whole look and tone of the marines are. They're a common sci-fi staple now, but Cameron was first I think.
One of the things to look out for when you're ever at the airport are those low tow-truck things that pull the aircraft around. It's then obvious what was used to make the marines' APC vehicle.
She is also one of crew members in Star Trek Generations on the Enterprise B. And that was in response to when they originally casting for Star Trek Next gen, they wanted her as Tasha Yar, as that character must of been obviously influence from Vasquez from Aliens. but she said no....
I recognised her in T2 when I saw that, but had no idea she was in Titanic when I first watched it in 1997. But noticed when I saw it for the second time on Friday though. I was like WTF :eek::eek::eek:
She looked really odd as a lady who is of obvious Latino decent with Freckles and a red hair dye and an Irish accent!!!! :eek::eek:
I don't think she is , she just played it that way in Aliens .