"Gay" as a singular noun sounds a bit strange and unnecessary, so I wouldn't recommend it. However I think "gays" in the plural is OK as informal shorthand for lesbians and gay men, but perhaps not suitable for say a newspaper article.
Fail to understand why, if it is ok in its plural form it must be ok in its singular form. If it is ok to call a heterosexual straight I don't see why it isn't to call a homosexual gay.
Gay as an adjective in its original form and meaning is now effectively defunct.
It's the exact equivalent to calling someone 'a black', or saying that the pub was 'full of blacks'.
There is a strong general preference for using adjectives rather than nouns in contexts like this. If you say, "the pub was full of gays" is sounds slightly dehumanising. If people can understand why we don't refer to people as 'blacks' they can understand why it is politer to say 'gay people' rather than 'gays'.
Further back, it was considered quite all right to call people 'cripples', which was nice and short, certainly much shorter than 'disabled people' or 'people with disabilities'. More recently, "a spastic" was considered the normal way to refer to people with cerebral palsy, and "a mongol" to someone with downs syndrome. I am glad that those two have gone, especially as both words (often shortened) had become mere playground insults. . For some reason a noun was generally only used of people with mobility problems: we never had people saying, "the pub was full of blinds", or "deafs need special consideration".
Unfortunately what lead to the original words being used as insults, can lead to the new words being used as insults in pretty much the same way. At best having multiple words for it reminds us of how their usage may deviate from what's intended.
Unfortunately what lead to the original words being used as insults, can lead to the new words being used as insults in pretty much the same way. At best having multiple words for it reminds us of how their usage may deviate from what's intended.
Theoretically true, but nouns are far more likely to be used as insults than adjectives attached to a neutral noun. Ie I don't think playgrounds are full of children jeering, "you're a person with cerebral palsy! Well you're a person with Downs syndrome!" Gay as an adjective IS of course used as an insult; indeed, I think a research project showed that it is the number one insult in the UK. It could be argued that it is becoming detached from its original (post-war) meaning of homosexual, just as it previously became detached from its original meaning of happy. But whereas there are plenty of satisfactory synonyms for happy, there isn't really a good one for gay. (LGBT does nicely in things like policy documents, but isn't great for casual, personal conversation; it is very non-specific; if a child tells his parents that he is LGBT they are bound to want clarification.)
Sorry, it's down to childhood programming* - "have a gay time" is just wrong without "old" (and sung), in the same way that 'm.i.c.' has to be chanted in a very specific way with something of an uphill struggle to stop oneself from adding the next few syllables in the same manner...
* technically that should probably be 'watching tv as a child' but would be less accurate.
All I can say is that I, personally, loathe hearing people say things like 'The gays are doing xyz' - just as I would loathe 'The blacks are doing xyz' I find it lazy and dehumanising. I am a gay person or gay woman... not 'a gay'... the plural is 'gay people'.
All I can say is that I, personally, loathe hearing people say things like 'The gays are doing xyz' - just as I would loathe 'The blacks are doing xyz' I find it lazy and dehumanising. I am a gay person or gay woman... not 'a gay'... the plural is 'gay people'.
If I may ask, how do you react to the word 'lesbian'...either as a noun or an adjective?
It offends me when adjectives or verbs are used as nouns regardless of what the words are.
'Ask' being used as a noun is the worst, as in "It's a big ask" >:(
If I may ask, how do you react to the word 'lesbian'...either as a noun or an adjective?
Lesbian is a noun though - 'gay' is an adjective. I don't much like people saying 'The lesbians' though - the definitive article makes it sound like we are the Borg.
Prior to about 30 years ago, gay meant happy & jolly.
Well words change don't they. '****' used to mean a piece of wood for example. I think it is nice that a word can be used in a positive sense for a change. (Nice used to mean 'precise' as well).
I'd say it was more like 40 years ago or more, but how is this relevant to whether "gay" should be a noun or not now?
I would like to see gay revert to meaning happy/jolly & homosexuals/lesbians having a new word that has not previously existed in the English language, unlikely I know.
Lesbian is a noun though - 'gay' is an adjective. I don't much like people saying 'The lesbians' though - the definitive article makes it sound like we are the Borg.
It's both a noun and an adjective...which makes it an interesting comparison.
I would like to see gay revert to meaning happy/jolly & homosexuals/lesbians having a new word that has not previously existed in the English language, unlikely I know.
Gosh. Do you have some kind of problem with gay people?
The word 'female' has undergone a similar change of usage recently and sounds just as harsh and 'wrong' as a noun as 'gay' does.
More and more men seem to be caling women 'Females' these days and it really grates on me.
It offends me when adjectives or verbs are used as nouns regardless of what the words are.
'Ask' being used as a noun is the worst, as in "It's a big ask" >:(
Exactly. It's just sloppy use of language. Even worse, I think it all started in america.
So gay people are proud to call themselves gay and love to go on marches proclaiming how proud they are to be gay but if anyone dares to refer a group of gay folk as gays that is offensive?
I would like to see gay revert to meaning happy/jolly & homosexuals/lesbians having a new word that has not previously existed in the English language, unlikely I know.
I would like to see fantastic, cute, pedant, bimbo, harlot, nice, awful, punk, assassin, slag, ****, bully, bitch, bitch, ho, bastard, addict and matrix revert to their original meanings*, but it won't happen in our lifetime.
*Original meanings:
Bully = darling, good man, affectionate person, beloved woman
Pedant = a school teacher
Awful = full of awe or wonder
Matrix = a pregnant animal
Slag = a worthless person (gender neutral) or a metal splinter.
Harlot = lazy rogue, homeless man, vagabond, tramp
Fantastic = delusional, doesn't exist in reality, a piece of imagination
**** = unkempt/slovenly/untidy woman or bad housekeeper. Nothing sexual.
Assassin = hash eater
Cute = shrewd, acutely perspective
Bitch = female dog
Bitchy = sexually provocative
Ho = an exclamation of surprise
Bimbo = a fun-loving man or stupid man
Bastard = an illegitimate child
Addict = a person in debt gives him/herself to their debtor as a slave
Nice = ignorant, silly, foolish
Punk = a prostitute
I lost points in trivia contests due to not knowing those.
So gay people are proud to call themselves gay and love to go on marches proclaiming how proud they are to be gay but if anyone dares to refer a group of gay folk as gays that is offensive?
Context, dear boy, context. And you're missing the point about gay being an adjective rather than a noun. Generally speaking.
Comments
Fail to understand why, if it is ok in its plural form it must be ok in its singular form. If it is ok to call a heterosexual straight I don't see why it isn't to call a homosexual gay.
Gay as an adjective in its original form and meaning is now effectively defunct.
Unfortunately what lead to the original words being used as insults, can lead to the new words being used as insults in pretty much the same way. At best having multiple words for it reminds us of how their usage may deviate from what's intended.
It is OK, but those examples are adjectives!
eg
Britain invests £squillions in Nuclear.
100,000 homes have adopted Solar.
Have you got Fibre Optic yet?
It's evolution of language but it smacks of laziness.
Theoretically true, but nouns are far more likely to be used as insults than adjectives attached to a neutral noun. Ie I don't think playgrounds are full of children jeering, "you're a person with cerebral palsy! Well you're a person with Downs syndrome!" Gay as an adjective IS of course used as an insult; indeed, I think a research project showed that it is the number one insult in the UK. It could be argued that it is becoming detached from its original (post-war) meaning of homosexual, just as it previously became detached from its original meaning of happy. But whereas there are plenty of satisfactory synonyms for happy, there isn't really a good one for gay. (LGBT does nicely in things like policy documents, but isn't great for casual, personal conversation; it is very non-specific; if a child tells his parents that he is LGBT they are bound to want clarification.)
* technically that should probably be 'watching tv as a child' but would be less accurate.
How so afaik plenty of people refer themesleves as gay.
No they aren't, they are all nouns.
If I may ask, how do you react to the word 'lesbian'...either as a noun or an adjective?
Straight and gay are adjectives in the way you used them in that last sentence!
'Ask' being used as a noun is the worst, as in "It's a big ask" >:(
Lesbian is a noun though - 'gay' is an adjective. I don't much like people saying 'The lesbians' though - the definitive article makes it sound like we are the Borg.
I'd say it was more like 40 years ago or more, but how is this relevant to whether "gay" should be a noun or not now?
Well words change don't they. '****' used to mean a piece of wood for example. I think it is nice that a word can be used in a positive sense for a change. (Nice used to mean 'precise' as well).
I would like to see gay revert to meaning happy/jolly & homosexuals/lesbians having a new word that has not previously existed in the English language, unlikely I know.
It's both a noun and an adjective...which makes it an interesting comparison.
Gosh. Do you have some kind of problem with gay people?
More and more men seem to be caling women 'Females' these days and it really grates on me.
Many of us are; I hope that's OK with you?
Exactly. It's just sloppy use of language. Even worse, I think it all started in america.
I would like to see fantastic, cute, pedant, bimbo, harlot, nice, awful, punk, assassin, slag, ****, bully, bitch, bitch, ho, bastard, addict and matrix revert to their original meanings*, but it won't happen in our lifetime.
*Original meanings:
Bully = darling, good man, affectionate person, beloved woman
Pedant = a school teacher
Awful = full of awe or wonder
Matrix = a pregnant animal
Slag = a worthless person (gender neutral) or a metal splinter.
Harlot = lazy rogue, homeless man, vagabond, tramp
Fantastic = delusional, doesn't exist in reality, a piece of imagination
**** = unkempt/slovenly/untidy woman or bad housekeeper. Nothing sexual.
Assassin = hash eater
Cute = shrewd, acutely perspective
Bitch = female dog
Bitchy = sexually provocative
Ho = an exclamation of surprise
Bimbo = a fun-loving man or stupid man
Bastard = an illegitimate child
Addict = a person in debt gives him/herself to their debtor as a slave
Nice = ignorant, silly, foolish
Punk = a prostitute
I lost points in trivia contests due to not knowing those.
Context, dear boy, context. And you're missing the point about gay being an adjective rather than a noun. Generally speaking.
Those damn Yanks. When will they stop messing in the affairs of the world?