OK I just read this about a speech made by Kanye West - is he allowed to say 'not of color' but we can't say of colour?
The rapper referenced a meeting with Louis Farrakhan Muhammad, Sr. - leader of the religious group Nation of Islam - where Kanye said it was 'groundbreaking' to see his reaction to his relationship with a woman 'not of color' reports
Kampffenhoff - I certainly wasn't "analysing to death" - I was replying to your post. And agreeing with you that his fans behave strangely.
And yes, as I said, he's apologised. The end.
Apologies if I've annoyed you in some way.
My remark about analyzing wasn't aimed at you personally and I'm sorry if it was worded as if it was. However, true fans, their words not mine, are evidently not forgiving him. I don't know what exactly you can do if you make a mistake and then appologise, what's done is done and it can't be undone. People in other places, are, according to a friend of mine, spending lots of space going on about why he said what he did and why it was terribly wrong and how despicable and stupid it was and how come he didn't know etc.
I can't see the point of this as it's already history.
As for a paper pointing out that his ancestors owned slaves. Well, one of my ancestors was a Nazi. Does that mean I am somehow tainted and responsible for something that happened before even my parents were born? And on the Oscars, they were, in my opinion, never going to give an Oscar to a movie about a gay Brit who shortened the war. It's going to go to Keaton.
As for Baa Baa black sheep. In my younger daughters nursery they wanted to change it to Baa Baa green sheep and all of us parents, including many who are people of colour, if we have to use that daft phrase, objected. One black parent, forgive me if that's not correct please, who I am very friendly with told me it was ridiculous and actually knew the history of the rhyme which I didn't.
His concerns about black actors having less opportunities in the UK than in the US have been negated by saying "coloured”. Oops. To be honest it's maybe better to say nothing than risk criticism for using an incorrect word. Leave it to people like Lenny Henry.
I was told as a child to use the term "coloured" instead of "black". Swings & Roundabouts
Me too! Back in the 70s that was the correct PC term and the polite way to refer to that group collectively.
What happens if they want to change from the word "Black" tomorrow? Does anyone using the word after that date instantly get branded a racist?
All very silly and stinks of abusing the system to control others.
We really need to get away from this silliness as it undermines the real fight against racism. A person can be racist and offensive without using a single 'controlled word' and using one doesn't instantly make a person a racist as popularly claimed. Get some context!
It's quite funny in a way, because although it gives them an excuse not to vote for a Brit, they'll also feel uncomfortable about being perceived to be deliberately ignoring him because of what was obviously a perfectly innocent slip of the tongue, deliberately blown out of all proportion by the machinations of the sensation-seeking press.
I think he'll receive a respectable number of nominations but they'll make sure he doesn't win – which is what would have happened anyway before all this occurred.
p.s. Many old people in Fenland still quite innocently refer to people as "darkies", which can cause a few jaws to drop, but is almost always used purely descriptively, entirely without any form of malice. One quite harmless old character quite innocently used this term about one of his own team's players on a post-match football forum and was genuinely hurt and shocked when it was pointed out to him that it was deemed offensive.
The radio host apologised on his behalf, but I wouldn't mind betting that the old boy didn't have a clue what it was that he was supposed to have said. Sometimes you just have to make allowances for what really are quite trivial matters where no offence was intended. There are far more important issues in the world to get heated and angry about.
Surely a Guardian reader like yourself will know that the paper often uses the phrase 'person of colour'. It described Oprah Winfrey as one such person quite recently. Do you honestly think 'coloured' is offensive?
Yes - The current politically acceptable terms are 'people of colour' and 'people not of colour', which essentially segregates all white people from the rest of the entire human race, and mixes all people who aren't full-blown Caucasian into one ethnic group.
"Non-white" is offensive, apparently. "People not of colour" is not, apparently.
Surely people don't use the term 'people not of colour'. Is that another term for white
Surely a Guardian reader like yourself will know that the paper often uses the phrase 'person of colour'. It described Oprah Winfrey as one such person quite recently. Do you think 'coloured' is offensive?
I don't read the Guardian any more often than I'll read the Telegraph or the Mirror. Depends on what articles come through on my twitterfeed.
I think 'coloured' is considered offensive in the US whereas it's old-fashioned and completely out of touch here. 'Person of colour' isn't at all a widely-used phrase in the UK.
Surely a Guardian reader like yourself will know that the paper often uses the phrase 'person of colour'. It described Oprah Winfrey as one such person quite recently. Do you honestly think 'coloured' is offensive?
When Obama won the election first, many were out on the street celebrating. One was Oprah who referred to herself and others live on camera as "A person of colour" as did many others that night.
We really need to get away from this silliness as it undermines the real fight against racism. A person can be racist and offensive without using a single 'controlled word' and using one doesn't instantly make a person a racist as popularly claimed. Get some context!
Well said. Fussing over a non-racist event like this if anything makes things worse, it causes an us & them culture of "what can we call them" and makes normal everyday folk more sensitive when talking to anyone of a different ethnicity.
And to confuse things further im pretty sure in South Africa they still refer to everyones ethnicity as either White, Black or Coloured, where coloured is mixed race or indian/asian and had maybe one or two more rights than a black person under apartheid.
When Obama won the election first, many were out on the street celebrating. One was Oprah who referred to herself and others live on camera as "A person of colour" as did many others that night.
Apparently 'person of colour' is fine but 'coloured' is not because of its racist heritage...
Really, black people should stop using 'people of colour' is they don't want people to use 'coloured' as, in the minds of many, they're linguistically inter-changeable.
Apparently 'person of colour' is fine but 'coloured' is not because of its racist heritage...
Really, black people should stop using 'people of colour' is they don't want people to use 'coloured' as, in the minds of many, they're linguistically inter-changeable.
Well, seemingly and I don't watch the show but seen a brief clip of CBB where Ken got flung out for racist language to Alexander.
Alexander in answer to ken said "I am not black, I am brown"
So?????
Please don't ask me to find the clip as I can't stand CBB. :D
My remark about analyzing wasn't aimed at you personally and I'm sorry if it was worded as if it was. However, true fans, their words not mine, are evidently not forgiving him. I don't know what exactly you can do if you make a mistake and then appologise, what's done is done and it can't be undone. People in other places, are, according to a friend of mine, spending lots of space going on about why he said what he did and why it was terribly wrong and how despicable and stupid it was and how come he didn't know etc.
I can't see the point of this as it's already history.
As for a paper pointing out that his ancestors owned slaves. Well, one of my ancestors was a Nazi. Does that mean I am somehow tainted and responsible for something that happened before even my parents were born? And on the Oscars, they were, in my opinion, never going to give an Oscar to a movie about a gay Brit who shortened the war. It's going to go to Keaton.
As for Baa Baa black sheep. In my younger daughters nursery they wanted to change it to Baa Baa green sheep and all of us parents, including many who are people of colour, if we have to use that daft phrase, objected. One black parent, forgive me if that's not correct please, who I am very friendly with told me it was ridiculous and actually knew the history of the rhyme which I didn't.
Sorry if I was being touchy:)
I agree - there's nothing more he can do other than make the apology and allow it to blow over.
Some of his "fans" imo, now seem to be looking for any excuse to hate him or to find him "unforgivable" ever since he got engaged to someone who wasn't them!! Coincidentally, since that happened, an awful lot of fans are finding an awful lot of fault with him.
The episode is indicative of the fact that he's grown up a little differently to many, but not knowing that a term has now been declared offensive doesn't put him in the same league as slave owners, and any sane person can see how ludicrous those people are for flagging the ancestral connection up in relation to this story.
It'll be old news in a day or so - other Actors have survived worse!
I agree, too, that he was never going to win the Oscar - the sad thing is though that when he doesn't, people will put this incident forward as the reason why.
Apparently 'person of colour' is fine but 'coloured' is not because of its racist heritage...
Really, black people should stop using 'people of colour' is they don't want people to use 'coloured' as, in the minds of many, they're linguistically inter-changeable.
It seems to be Americans in general who use it, much as they used 'African American' before it.
As for being linguistically interchangeable as far as the UK and the US are concerned, the word 'fanny' really isn't.
It seems to be Americans in general who use it, much as they used 'African American' before it.
As for being linguistically interchangeable as far as the UK and the US are concerned, the word 'fanny' really isn't.
Cumberbatch spends most of his time in America now anyway. He probably picked it up there. He probably heard them using "person of colour" and *the horror of it* used "coloured" instead.
Still, it hasn't stopped the Guardian using it as an opportunity to wheel out their usual "aint whites awful" message:
The problem is that to many people it will all seem so utterly ridiculous that it puts the entire debate about racism into a bad light. (The Guardian article is written by the same troll who claimed Lewis Hamilton wouldn't win the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year award as the British public were racist...)
It's stupid. It just trivialises issues like racism and sexism when people get offended over little things, and it takes attention away from actual problems. Somewhere in the world someone's being arrested because they're black, or killed because they're gay, but let's ignore that and hate someone for harmlessly refering to non-white people as "coloured". It doesn't even matter that he was talking about the lack of opportunities for non-white actors.
A quote (from the Guardian link found in the Trending widget on FB):
“I think as far as coloured actors go, it gets really different in the UK, and a lot of my friends have had more opportunities here [in America] than in the UK, and that’s something that needs to change.”
He's talking about an actual racial issue but people ignore that and concentrate on his choice of words. He shouldn't be apologising for it. He should be telling people to focus on what he's talking about.
There's nothing wrong with using the word coloured. People shouldn't be criticized for using that particular word just because the political correctness brigade has decided that at this moment in time, black is acceptable and coloured is not. At one point, coloured was the apparent "correct" word to be used to describe black people. If someone really wants to be racist there are quite a few words they can use to get their point across much better. The fact that he didn't use these words suggests there was no racism meant , so I really think this is a fuss over nothing.
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The rapper referenced a meeting with Louis Farrakhan Muhammad, Sr. - leader of the religious group Nation of Islam - where Kanye said it was 'groundbreaking' to see his reaction to his relationship with a woman 'not of color' reports
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2927299/Kanye-West-says-wife-Kim-Kardashian-isn-t-gold-digger-delivering-speech-interracial-relationships.html#ixzz3Q1pEc5VR
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My remark about analyzing wasn't aimed at you personally and I'm sorry if it was worded as if it was. However, true fans, their words not mine, are evidently not forgiving him. I don't know what exactly you can do if you make a mistake and then appologise, what's done is done and it can't be undone. People in other places, are, according to a friend of mine, spending lots of space going on about why he said what he did and why it was terribly wrong and how despicable and stupid it was and how come he didn't know etc.
I can't see the point of this as it's already history.
As for a paper pointing out that his ancestors owned slaves. Well, one of my ancestors was a Nazi. Does that mean I am somehow tainted and responsible for something that happened before even my parents were born? And on the Oscars, they were, in my opinion, never going to give an Oscar to a movie about a gay Brit who shortened the war. It's going to go to Keaton.
As for Baa Baa black sheep. In my younger daughters nursery they wanted to change it to Baa Baa green sheep and all of us parents, including many who are people of colour, if we have to use that daft phrase, objected. One black parent, forgive me if that's not correct please, who I am very friendly with told me it was ridiculous and actually knew the history of the rhyme which I didn't.
Ye gods, imagine Jesse Jackson spouting off about this.:o
Me too! Back in the 70s that was the correct PC term and the polite way to refer to that group collectively.
What happens if they want to change from the word "Black" tomorrow? Does anyone using the word after that date instantly get branded a racist?
All very silly and stinks of abusing the system to control others.
We really need to get away from this silliness as it undermines the real fight against racism. A person can be racist and offensive without using a single 'controlled word' and using one doesn't instantly make a person a racist as popularly claimed. Get some context!
A lot less fake than yours, I'd wager.
I think he'll receive a respectable number of nominations but they'll make sure he doesn't win – which is what would have happened anyway before all this occurred.
p.s. Many old people in Fenland still quite innocently refer to people as "darkies", which can cause a few jaws to drop, but is almost always used purely descriptively, entirely without any form of malice. One quite harmless old character quite innocently used this term about one of his own team's players on a post-match football forum and was genuinely hurt and shocked when it was pointed out to him that it was deemed offensive.
The radio host apologised on his behalf, but I wouldn't mind betting that the old boy didn't have a clue what it was that he was supposed to have said. Sometimes you just have to make allowances for what really are quite trivial matters where no offence was intended. There are far more important issues in the world to get heated and angry about.
Surely a Guardian reader like yourself will know that the paper often uses the phrase 'person of colour'. It described Oprah Winfrey as one such person quite recently. Do you honestly think 'coloured' is offensive?
Surely people don't use the term 'people not of colour'. Is that another term for white
I don't read the Guardian any more often than I'll read the Telegraph or the Mirror. Depends on what articles come through on my twitterfeed.
I think 'coloured' is considered offensive in the US whereas it's old-fashioned and completely out of touch here. 'Person of colour' isn't at all a widely-used phrase in the UK.
When Obama won the election first, many were out on the street celebrating. One was Oprah who referred to herself and others live on camera as "A person of colour" as did many others that night.
Well said. Fussing over a non-racist event like this if anything makes things worse, it causes an us & them culture of "what can we call them" and makes normal everyday folk more sensitive when talking to anyone of a different ethnicity.
And to confuse things further im pretty sure in South Africa they still refer to everyones ethnicity as either White, Black or Coloured, where coloured is mixed race or indian/asian and had maybe one or two more rights than a black person under apartheid.
Apparently 'person of colour' is fine but 'coloured' is not because of its racist heritage...
Really, black people should stop using 'people of colour' is they don't want people to use 'coloured' as, in the minds of many, they're linguistically inter-changeable.
Well, seemingly and I don't watch the show but seen a brief clip of CBB where Ken got flung out for racist language to Alexander.
Alexander in answer to ken said "I am not black, I am brown"
So?????
Please don't ask me to find the clip as I can't stand CBB.
Sorry if I was being touchy:)
I agree - there's nothing more he can do other than make the apology and allow it to blow over.
Some of his "fans" imo, now seem to be looking for any excuse to hate him or to find him "unforgivable" ever since he got engaged to someone who wasn't them!! Coincidentally, since that happened, an awful lot of fans are finding an awful lot of fault with him.
The episode is indicative of the fact that he's grown up a little differently to many, but not knowing that a term has now been declared offensive doesn't put him in the same league as slave owners, and any sane person can see how ludicrous those people are for flagging the ancestral connection up in relation to this story.
It'll be old news in a day or so - other Actors have survived worse!
I agree, too, that he was never going to win the Oscar - the sad thing is though that when he doesn't, people will put this incident forward as the reason why.
It seems to be Americans in general who use it, much as they used 'African American' before it.
As for being linguistically interchangeable as far as the UK and the US are concerned, the word 'fanny' really isn't.
Cumberbatch spends most of his time in America now anyway. He probably picked it up there. He probably heard them using "person of colour" and *the horror of it* used "coloured" instead.
Still, it hasn't stopped the Guardian using it as an opportunity to wheel out their usual "aint whites awful" message:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/27/cumberbatch-coloured-gaffe-white-film-industry-black-actors
The problem is that to many people it will all seem so utterly ridiculous that it puts the entire debate about racism into a bad light. (The Guardian article is written by the same troll who claimed Lewis Hamilton wouldn't win the BBC's Sports Personality of the Year award as the British public were racist...)
Apparently there is only one sort of colour when referring to race ;-)
A quote (from the Guardian link found in the Trending widget on FB):
“I think as far as coloured actors go, it gets really different in the UK, and a lot of my friends have had more opportunities here [in America] than in the UK, and that’s something that needs to change.”
He's talking about an actual racial issue but people ignore that and concentrate on his choice of words. He shouldn't be apologising for it. He should be telling people to focus on what he's talking about.