In Corey's case - he didn't look to have the strength needed to lift Brooke into the overhead lifts anyway. Matt on the other hand has the power and technique to lift Nina and make it look easy.
Brooke looks taller than Nina and Matthew much stronger than Corey - so why didn't they pair Matt/Brooke and Corey/Nina together I wonder
Unless Matt was planned as a front runner from the start so they gave him a tiny partner to help him achieve that;)
Regarding lifts, I agree with most of what has already been said. I'm tired of seeing the female celebs being carried around the ice instead of skating.
There is a simple solution - make a ruling of no more than 1 lift per routine for the first 6 weeks at least so let's see which celebs can actually skate.
1. Do the female celebs spend more time in lifts than the male celebs spend lifting, or less, or about the same?
2. Are the lifts done by the female celebs crowd-pleasers? (I mean with the whole audience as the "crowd" not just the ones there where the show's made.) T&D, and so also the show's producers, seem to think so, or else they wouldn't put so many in.
Another problem may be the commentary - the Gubba factor. They seem to comment on what they see as the biggest moves - and that means anything else often gets missed. It also means moves sound more equivalent when they are not. Thats working for the males. Jorgie's commentary focuses on her one handed lift or her tablelift spin - the two jumps she has just done, or the roll on the floor are secondary and don't get mentioned. Mathew has a roll on the floor as a major move and it gets mentioned strongly. Sam has his partner flying over his head and its his major story how she manages it - when it might be really praiseworthy if it was a female celb actually doing the flying over.
There's also a judges angle. They seem to comment more on people managing things they found difficult, or doing something new, or doing something better. If you have been doing something well since week one they don't say well done for doing what you did in week one again - even if no one else has managed it at all or they have just commented on someone else doing it for the first time less well. If people watched and muted the comments that might not matter - but all the evidence is that people often believe what they are told more than what they see.
Regarding lifts, I agree with most of what has already been said. I'm tired of seeing the female celebs being carried around the ice instead of skating.
There is a simple solution - make a ruling of no more than 1 lift per routine for the first 6 weeks at least so let's see which celebs can actually skate.
In which case what do the females do, and how can they possibly compete with the female pros?
You would have to draw up a long list of tricks that no one was allowed to do - or you would have the pro girls doing triples and jumps, while the best celeb girls did fewer moves more simply and the majority moved around doing as little as the celeb males do now.
If the pro females were not allowed to do what they do, and the better celeb girls didn't do what they do now , and neither set of pairs could lift, no one would watch what little was left..
Brooke looks taller than Nina and Matthew much stronger than Corey - so why didn't they pair Matt/Brooke and Corey/Nina together I wonder
Unless Matt was planned as a front runner from the start so they gave him a tiny partner to help him achieve that;)
Brooke may be taller than Nina but she's still pretty tiny. I have no doubt that Matt would be doing the same moves with Brooke if they had been paired together. I'm glad Nina got a good partner this year - I would have been annoyed if she had got another duffer for the 2nd year in a row like poor Lukasz.
Also I get the impression that Corey was training in the US before Christmas so it made sense to pair him up with an American pro.
It dosen't always seem to be about how tall or stocky the male is. Ray wasn't particularly big or tall and he managed all the lifts he was given?
With the celeb males the only ones who get the bigger overhead lifts are those who are good skaters understandably. It would be too risky otherwise & even then there is still a risk as we have seen with Matthew dropping Nina a couple of times in rehearsal.
As much as I enjoy watching the professionals, I would like to see a week when the celebs are skating alone. They could do this at the start of a new series, or towards the end of the series, when they have more time and can do both skating alone and with a partner. That way you can judge them on their skating skills without all the fancy lifts.
As much as I enjoy watching the professionals, I would like to see a week when the celebs are skating alone. They could do this at the start of a new series, or towards the end of the series, when they have more time and can do both skating alone and with a partner. That way you can judge them on their skating skills without all the fancy lifts.
They usually do this in the semi finals. It used to be a solo spot within the routine for about 30 secs but last year they did a full routine. I wouldn't want to see them doing it much earlier than that & certainly not at the start of the series when you still have a number of weaker skaters.
They usually do this in the semi finals. It used to be a solo spot within the routine for about 30 secs but last year they did a full routine. I wouldn't want to see them doing it much earlier than that & certainly not at the start of the series when you still have a number of weaker skaters.
Yes. What would Laila or Corey have done if they had to do a solo?
In which case what do the females do, and how can they possibly compete with the female pros?
What do the famales do? Skate.
How can they compete with the female pros? They're not competing with the female pros. Fortunately, for if they were, they would always lose.
1 lift per routine is too few, but as it is, they're usually doing too many lifts, and the time they spend learning those lifts is time they don't spend learning to skate better.
I think it works against the female celebs that they do so many lifts. Viewers are increasingly cynical about lifts, and it holds back their skating.
BTW, no long list of forbidden moves would be needed: just T&D devising fair routines.
Matthew and Jorgie' routines looked more like lifting on ice rather than dancing on ice. You have to admire Mathew and Jorgie for coping with their difficult lifts but I think the routines would have flowed better with fewer lifts particularly Mathew's. I also think spending time perfecting the lifts would be better spent perfecting skating techniques. There is also the danger element particularly for the female pros.Matthew has had 2 bad falls. Thankfully his partner was not injured.
However, I think Nicky was right, in a way. Or perhaps ahead of this time. I don't think that routine looks nearly as impressive now as it did then. Even though it was from the final, it doesn't look that much beyond what Jorgie can already do, and I think even Jennifer might be able to match it weeks before the final.
Claire does a nice bit of solo skating starting at approx 3:23, but at other points her skating seems tentative and even a bit unsteady. Even in the nice bit, she looks very nervous at the end when she takes Andrei's hand and we can see her face. So it must have been right at the limit of what she could do.
And the routine is packed with (imo too many) lifts, most of them not especially impressive. The headbanger (or similar) at the end is good because she does it from a standing, moving start.
I agree that the big lift came at an appropriate point, but it was mostly just a balance high in the air sort of lift.
You're right of course - the moves, tricks and lifts that left us breathless yesterday are considered quite tame by today's standards. I think anyone teaching a new skill treads quite carefully at first not knowing just how far the student can be stretched – but year by year T&D have extended the boundaries and now we see skills that would never have been entertained in the past.
I remember in series 1 when Matt threw Bonnie around with such abandon in lifts that were just as spectacular as those Jorgie has accomplished this year. Of course like Jorgie she was small and light and was also a trained dancer. T&D seized on this fact and she was given very little skating resulting in the fact that even in the final she could do very little on the ice. Such a pity no one on the panel gave her similar advice to that offered by Nicky to Suzanne – less lifts more skating. After the end of the show she continued to skate; witness the difference in this video when she competed in Champion of Champions http://youtu.be/dFloJn9AsiA.
Such a shame she fell.
Another routine that enchanted many of us was Stefan and Kristina skating to Mr. Bojangles. http://youtu.be/YYUa6Wq5SNI
Despite some of the spectacular props routines we’ve seen since I still remember getting goose bumps when I saw this and replaying it now I smiled to myself when Krez (what a fantastic judge she was) pointed out that their lift (so adventurous then) was the first overhead lift by a celebrity.
Perhaps we should have a memories thread.:)
However, I think Nicky was right, in a way. Or perhaps ahead of this time. I don't think that routine looks nearly as impressive now as it did then. Even though it was from the final, it doesn't look that much beyond what Jorgie can already do, and I think even Jennifer might be able to match it weeks before the final.
Claire does a nice bit of solo skating starting at approx 3:23, but at other points her skating seems tentative and even a bit unsteady. Even in the nice bit, she looks very nervous at the end when she takes Andrei's hand and we can see her face. So it must have been right at the limit of what she could do.
And the routine is packed with (imo too many) lifts, most of them not especially impressive. The headbanger (or similar) at the end is good because she does it from a standing, moving start.
I agree that the big lift came at an appropriate point, but it was mostly just a balance high in the air sort of lift.
I think that lift (I believe it's called the Press Lift) is more difficult than the headbanger/float lift. The strength required to balance must be considerable & Clare is not moving/wobbling at all. I think that lift requires hard work from beginnig to end whereas the float spin required her to nail her entry but after that it's Andrei doing most of the work IMO.
I think that lift (I believe it's called the Press Lift) is more difficult than the headbanger/float lift. The strength required to balance must be considerable & Clare is not moving/wobbling at all. I think that lift requires hard work from beginnig to end whereas the float spin required her to nail her entry but after that it's Andrei doing most of the work IMO.
The first time she did this routine Jason commented on the strength and control the press lift needed from Clare hersethey http://youtu.be/J8UNDrjhDjU
Jason commented on the difficulty of the press lift for the woman - the need for strength and core stability 5m16sec.
I think probably everyone who's watched since the early days will remember Clare's repetitive "sorry dude."
In which case what do the females do, and how can they possibly compete with the female pros?
You would have to draw up a long list of tricks that no one was allowed to do - or you would have the pro girls doing triples and jumps, while the best celeb girls did fewer moves more simply and the majority moved around doing as little as the celeb males do now.
If the pro females were not allowed to do what they do, and the better celeb girls didn't do what they do now , and neither set of pairs could lift, no one would watch what little was left..
The simple answer is the female skaters would have to SKATE!!!! IE - Dance ON Ice
And the female celebs are not competing against the female pros, they are competing against the male celebs.
Comments
Brooke looks taller than Nina and Matthew much stronger than Corey - so why didn't they pair Matt/Brooke and Corey/Nina together I wonder
Unless Matt was planned as a front runner from the start so they gave him a tiny partner to help him achieve that;)
There is a simple solution - make a ruling of no more than 1 lift per routine for the first 6 weeks at least so let's see which celebs can actually skate.
Another problem may be the commentary - the Gubba factor. They seem to comment on what they see as the biggest moves - and that means anything else often gets missed. It also means moves sound more equivalent when they are not. Thats working for the males. Jorgie's commentary focuses on her one handed lift or her tablelift spin - the two jumps she has just done, or the roll on the floor are secondary and don't get mentioned. Mathew has a roll on the floor as a major move and it gets mentioned strongly. Sam has his partner flying over his head and its his major story how she manages it - when it might be really praiseworthy if it was a female celb actually doing the flying over.
There's also a judges angle. They seem to comment more on people managing things they found difficult, or doing something new, or doing something better. If you have been doing something well since week one they don't say well done for doing what you did in week one again - even if no one else has managed it at all or they have just commented on someone else doing it for the first time less well. If people watched and muted the comments that might not matter - but all the evidence is that people often believe what they are told more than what they see.
In which case what do the females do, and how can they possibly compete with the female pros?
You would have to draw up a long list of tricks that no one was allowed to do - or you would have the pro girls doing triples and jumps, while the best celeb girls did fewer moves more simply and the majority moved around doing as little as the celeb males do now.
If the pro females were not allowed to do what they do, and the better celeb girls didn't do what they do now , and neither set of pairs could lift, no one would watch what little was left..
Brooke may be taller than Nina but she's still pretty tiny. I have no doubt that Matt would be doing the same moves with Brooke if they had been paired together. I'm glad Nina got a good partner this year - I would have been annoyed if she had got another duffer for the 2nd year in a row like poor Lukasz.
Also I get the impression that Corey was training in the US before Christmas so it made sense to pair him up with an American pro.
With the celeb males the only ones who get the bigger overhead lifts are those who are good skaters understandably. It would be too risky otherwise & even then there is still a risk as we have seen with Matthew dropping Nina a couple of times in rehearsal.
They usually do this in the semi finals. It used to be a solo spot within the routine for about 30 secs but last year they did a full routine. I wouldn't want to see them doing it much earlier than that & certainly not at the start of the series when you still have a number of weaker skaters.
Yes. What would Laila or Corey have done if they had to do a solo?
How can they compete with the female pros? They're not competing with the female pros. Fortunately, for if they were, they would always lose.
1 lift per routine is too few, but as it is, they're usually doing too many lifts, and the time they spend learning those lifts is time they don't spend learning to skate better.
I think it works against the female celebs that they do so many lifts. Viewers are increasingly cynical about lifts, and it holds back their skating.
BTW, no long list of forbidden moves would be needed: just T&D devising fair routines.
Laila would have probably done what I recall Coleen doing which was standing still on the ice waving her arms about. :eek:
I remember in series 1 when Matt threw Bonnie around with such abandon in lifts that were just as spectacular as those Jorgie has accomplished this year. Of course like Jorgie she was small and light and was also a trained dancer. T&D seized on this fact and she was given very little skating resulting in the fact that even in the final she could do very little on the ice. Such a pity no one on the panel gave her similar advice to that offered by Nicky to Suzanne – less lifts more skating. After the end of the show she continued to skate; witness the difference in this video when she competed in Champion of Champions
http://youtu.be/dFloJn9AsiA.
Such a shame she fell.
Another routine that enchanted many of us was Stefan and Kristina skating to Mr. Bojangles.
http://youtu.be/YYUa6Wq5SNI
Despite some of the spectacular props routines we’ve seen since I still remember getting goose bumps when I saw this and replaying it now I smiled to myself when Krez (what a fantastic judge she was) pointed out that their lift (so adventurous then) was the first overhead lift by a celebrity.
Perhaps we should have a memories thread.:)
I think that lift (I believe it's called the Press Lift) is more difficult than the headbanger/float lift. The strength required to balance must be considerable & Clare is not moving/wobbling at all. I think that lift requires hard work from beginnig to end whereas the float spin required her to nail her entry but after that it's Andrei doing most of the work IMO.
http://youtu.be/J8UNDrjhDjU
Jason commented on the difficulty of the press lift for the woman - the need for strength and core stability 5m16sec.
I think probably everyone who's watched since the early days will remember Clare's repetitive "sorry dude."
The simple answer is the female skaters would have to SKATE!!!! IE - Dance ON Ice
And the female celebs are not competing against the female pros, they are competing against the male celebs.
She had a bad arm though.