Judging her solely as a person, it should not be. But from a musical point of view, within popular music, different genres have often divided along racial lines -
blues, soul, reggae, tamla motown, rap, r n' b being black genres
folk, country, rock, punk being white genres
the lack of white females in the X factor final may or may not indicate a preference for different genres of music - which is a reasonable topic for discussion?
She is the first white female solo artist to make it to the final. Not that I care.
Isn't it funny that there always seems to be mixed raced people on the xfactor, is it becuase they can sing better or becuase the show is trying to be politicaly correct.....
I'm not being racist, it's just only 12 get through right. And there has never been all white finalists. I think that they feel they have to have people of mxed race on the show for fear of being called racist.
Not aiming this at you personally but Stacey is jewish! Not the same thing as white, or caucasian.
Judging her solely as a person, it should not be. But from a musical point of view, within popular music, different genres have often divided along racial lines -
blues, soul, reggae, tamla motown, rap, r n' b being black genres
folk, country, rock, punk being white genres
the lack of white females in the X factor final may or may not indicate a preference for different genres of music - which is a reasonable topic for discussion?
Now that's a thread, if widened a tad but you can't argue that that was what was on offer here by the OP.
Race or ethnicity can be a factor in performance in sport and health. Certain ethnicities are more susceptible to specific diseases/conditions and in sport some ethnicities show natural advantages. This is known and researched.
Commenting on Stacy being white to me meant that perhaps white women don't tend to have as good a singing voice as other ethnicities? Nothing wrong with having a discussion around that surely!
There really isn't anything wrong with discussing things with ethnicity as a differentiator. People from different ethnicities are different - as are people of different gender. It isn't saying one ethnicity or gender is better than the other - just acknowledging there are differences!
moot point or a matter for the politics forum. I fail to see why there ought to be an significance attached to Stacey's race within the context of her reaching the Final. Are we to extrapolate that the OP would not share the same appreciaiton of Stacey otherwise?
I am a big fan of Stacey's voice and her personality. So yes i am a fan of her whatever she looks like.
However, I was just pointing out an observation. I think it's quite sad we can't just point these things out, I think it is significant, that a white female has reached the x factor final after 6 years. And clearly race needs to be brought into it if that's the observation i made and wanted to share for those that didn't know
Now that's a thread, if widened a tad but you can't argue that that was what was on offer here by the OP.
Reading the OP again, perhaps not - he or she did not elaborate on why they thought it was important. Nevertheless, there may be legitimate reasons why it makes a difference, e.g. musically or as a reflection on trends in voting in reality TV shows.
Commenting on Stacy being white to me meant that perhaps white women don't tend to have as good a singing voice as other ethnicities?
Or just a less popular type of singing voice? For me, Stacey's natural genre is country music, e.g. Shania Twain. But while country music is hugely popular in Ireland and Scotland, few people like it in England. This is why I think she won't win - she is having to sing out of genre in order to appeal.
It isn't relevant. It's only a perfectly innocent observation.
That's all.
If Stacey had been a professor of medicine. She would have been the first professor of medicine to win the X Factor. If that had been observed on this thread, it would still have been irrelivant. But, would you have questioned their motives in that observation?
I think not. You seem to be trying to make something out of absolutely nothing.
There is no racism here!
I would never have noticed this had a thread not been made. Shows how much I pay attention to an acts race.
Not a dig or being nasty to OP btw. Just saying.
Do you know what! It never occurred to me either. But, when it was pointed out I just thought Oh yes! I never thought of that but its true.
That's it! Nothing more nothing less. I am so fed up with all this PC that is ruining our democracy. What we have left of it. My son in law is mixed race, the one before him was black. So what! There was never any mention of the colour difference whatsoever. He was a guy who loved my daughter. They will save a bomb at the tanning salons I suppose. But if there is real acceptance of multi coloured relationships it will not happen with all the PC bullying that goes on.
Why couldn't Stacey have been gay, too? Then we could have had her as the first White Gay Female to make the final and we could have had all the "does it matter that she's gay," brigade in here, too! :rolleyes:
BTW, I love the idea that you can't be white if your Jewish. I didn't realise Jewish was a colour! I'm of Jewish heritage (but not Jewish by religion) and as pale as pale can be. Am I not white because of this?
It isn't relevant. It's only a perfectly innocent observation.
That's all.
If Stacey had been a professor of medicine. She would have been the first professor of medicine to win the X Factor. If that had been observed on this thread, it would still have been irrelivant. But, would you have questioned their motives in that observation?
I think not. You seem to be trying to make something out of absolutely nothing.
There is no racism here!
A professor of medicine is an aspect of an individual that is created... Noone is born a professor of medicine - of that I am especially aware. Your argument is totally fallacious within the context of my posts.
I continue to question, and have yet to receive a cogent answer, as to why it is necessary to mention Stacey's colour and implicitly express a glee and overt approbration as to this as a qualifier to her presence in the Final?
A professor of medicine is an aspect of an individual that is created... Noone is born a professor of medicine - of that I am especially aware. Your argument is totally fallacious within the context of my posts.
I continue to question, and have yet to receive a cogent answer, as to why it is necessary to mention Stacey's colour and implicitly express a glee and overt approbration as to this as a qualifier to her presence in the Final?
I don't understand why it matters whether a specific is related to development or genetic assignment?
It's not fallacious for the poster to offer this example, as they are not the one defining a specific barrier of characteristics that may or may not be mentioned.
For instance, one could argue that the defining character "white" is only an issue that YOU have. After all, Stacey is not the first white PERSON to make the final. Only the first white FEMALE. Why not make an issue with the "female" characteristic?
You are defining characteristics that are acceptable to talk about, not the OP. It is not fallacious for people to disagree with your criteria for acceptable discussion points.
Please do note that referring to a person as black or white IS NOT racist. It is a fact. Stereotyping a person based on race and discriminating against them for that reason is racist. It is most definatley fallacious to claim that commenting on a racial characteristic is racist.
Judging her solely as a person, it should not be. But from a musical point of view, within popular music, different genres have often divided along racial lines -
blues, soul, reggae, tamla motown, rap, r n' b being black genres
folk, country, rock, punk being white genres
the lack of white females in the X factor final may or may not indicate a preference for different genres of music - which is a reasonable topic for discussion?
Race or ethnicity can be a factor in performance in sport and health. Certain ethnicities are more susceptible to specific diseases/conditions and in sport some ethnicities show natural advantages. This is known and researched.
Commenting on Stacy being white to me meant that perhaps white women don't tend to have as good a singing voice as other ethnicities? Nothing wrong with having a discussion around that surely!
There really isn't anything wrong with discussing things with ethnicity as a differentiator. People from different ethnicities are different - as are people of different gender. It isn't saying one ethnicity or gender is better than the other - just acknowledging there are differences!
Please do note that referring to a person as black or white IS NOT racist. It is a fact. Stereotyping a person based on race and discriminating against them for that reason is racist. It is most definatley fallacious to claim that commenting on a racial characteristic is racist.
Excellent posts.
It is interesting to discuss these things - another point that has been raised in other threads is that there seem to be fewer contestants of Asian ancestry. (Likewise, there are not many Asians in UK football).
It would be so refreshing to be able to remark and speculate on these matters without sanctimonious prigs always jumping in with "Does it matter?" type comments. Yes, we get their message - they are not racists. Why are they so anxious to demonstrate it?
She is the first white female solo artist to make it to the final. Not that I care.
Isn't it funny that there always seems to be mixed raced people on the xfactor, is it becuase they can sing better or becuase the show is trying to be politicaly correct.....
I'm not being racist, it's just only 12 get through right. And there has never been all white finalists. I think that they feel they have to have people of mxed race on the show for fear of being called racist.
Total RUBBISH!
So millions of viewers voted for Alexandra because shes black and not for being the best????
GET A LIFE, I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE LIKE YOU :rolleyes:
To be honest i think that poster is just getting ready to pounce on anything in order to hint at it being racist. Might give him some sort of moral-highground orgasm or something..
To be honest i think that poster is just getting ready to pounce on anything in order to hint at it being racist. Might give him some sort of moral-highground orgasm or something..
Nothing of the sort. Again, at the risk of being called priggish, I genuinely fail to see what the colour of Stacey's skin has to do with her being in the Final and why there ought to be a joyous response to this aspect of her journey within the competition. I think you'll find I generally have a negative response to those who try to introduce the race card into rtv... by and large I firmly believe, with notable exception, that the voting GBP are generally colour-blind when it comes to supporting a voice at least. So I am not trying to see racism where none may exist. Indeed, if you look back at the content of my posts, you will see that all I have asked for is the relevance of mentioning Stacey's race in, what to my mind, is giving it rather undue emphasis and seems unnecessary overall... it is a fallacy of logic to give such a factor precedence when the intent of the thread seemed to be a whoop-fest. I genuinely wanted to know the purpose.
Some have gone some way towards explaining why discussions of this nature can have relevance and I have acknowledged those as you can rea. Now others simply jumped on me defensively and implied varying motives to my posts that were inaccurate and not part of my mindset other than within the terms of their thinking... the above being an example.
I take no pleasure from conflict but I remain perplexed as to the purpose of the thread. The OP offers no real substantive other than woo Stacey is white, solo and i the Final. Fair play all true but why the need to vaunt it?
I wonder the same about the last woman standing approach too. Neither ought to be aspects that enender support in and of themmselves to my mind and it confuses me as to why promote them as bonus points when they are moot points
Nothing of the sort. Again, at the risk of being called priggish, I genuinely fail to see what the colour of Stacey's skin has to do with her being in the Final and why there ought to be a joyous response to this aspect of her journey within the competition. I think you'll find I generally have a negative response to those who try to introduce the race card into rtv... by and large I firmly believe, with notable exception, that the voting GBP are generally colour-blind when it comes to supporting a voice at least. So I am not trying to see racism where none may exist. Indeed, if you look back at the content of my posts, you will see that all I have asked for is the relevance of mentioning Stacey's race in, what to my mind, is giving it rather undue emphasis and seems unnecessary overall... it is a fallacy of logic to give such a factor precedence when the intent of the thread seemed to be a whoop-fest. I genuinely wanted to know the purpose.
Some have gone some way towards explaining why discussions of this nature can have relevance and I have acknowledged those as you can rea. Now others simply jumped on me defensively and implied varying motives to my posts that were inaccurate and not part of my mindset other than within the terms of their thinking... the above being an example.
I take no pleasure from conflict but I remain perplexed as to the purpose of the thread. The OP offers no real substantive other than woo Stacey is white, solo and i the Final. Fair play all true but why the need to vaunt it?
I wonder the same about the last woman standing approach too. Neither ought to be aspects that enender support in and of themmselves to my mind and it confuses me as to why promote them as bonus points when they are moot points
Priggish? Well ce sera if that as may be.
What was you response to the observation that was made on numerous occasions that Obama would be the first black president?
Comments
It would be a valid observation had she been the first black contestant to reach the final, that's all I'm saying.
Judging her solely as a person, it should not be. But from a musical point of view, within popular music, different genres have often divided along racial lines -
blues, soul, reggae, tamla motown, rap, r n' b being black genres
folk, country, rock, punk being white genres
the lack of white females in the X factor final may or may not indicate a preference for different genres of music - which is a reasonable topic for discussion?
Not aiming this at you personally but Stacey is jewish! Not the same thing as white, or caucasian.
Now that's a thread, if widened a tad but you can't argue that that was what was on offer here by the OP.
So you can be Jewish or white, but not both?
...and does that mean Sammy Davis Jr was Jewish, but not black?
Race:
White
White Irish
White British
White other
Jewish!?
LOL
Commenting on Stacy being white to me meant that perhaps white women don't tend to have as good a singing voice as other ethnicities? Nothing wrong with having a discussion around that surely!
There really isn't anything wrong with discussing things with ethnicity as a differentiator. People from different ethnicities are different - as are people of different gender. It isn't saying one ethnicity or gender is better than the other - just acknowledging there are differences!
I am a big fan of Stacey's voice and her personality. So yes i am a fan of her whatever she looks like.
However, I was just pointing out an observation. I think it's quite sad we can't just point these things out, I think it is significant, that a white female has reached the x factor final after 6 years. And clearly race needs to be brought into it if that's the observation i made and wanted to share for those that didn't know
Reading the OP again, perhaps not - he or she did not elaborate on why they thought it was important. Nevertheless, there may be legitimate reasons why it makes a difference, e.g. musically or as a reflection on trends in voting in reality TV shows.
Or just a less popular type of singing voice? For me, Stacey's natural genre is country music, e.g. Shania Twain. But while country music is hugely popular in Ireland and Scotland, few people like it in England. This is why I think she won't win - she is having to sing out of genre in order to appeal.
May take thousands and thousands of years but it will happen.
I am not in the slightest bothered what colour skin any human being has, we are all made the same way underneath it.
Thanks
I was hoping for more comments like yours
But I suppose we're all different
It isn't relevant. It's only a perfectly innocent observation.
That's all.
If Stacey had been a professor of medicine. She would have been the first professor of medicine to win the X Factor. If that had been observed on this thread, it would still have been irrelivant. But, would you have questioned their motives in that observation?
I think not. You seem to be trying to make something out of absolutely nothing.
There is no racism here!
Do you know what! It never occurred to me either. But, when it was pointed out I just thought Oh yes! I never thought of that but its true.
That's it! Nothing more nothing less. I am so fed up with all this PC that is ruining our democracy. What we have left of it. My son in law is mixed race, the one before him was black. So what! There was never any mention of the colour difference whatsoever. He was a guy who loved my daughter. They will save a bomb at the tanning salons I suppose. But if there is real acceptance of multi coloured relationships it will not happen with all the PC bullying that goes on.
BTW, I love the idea that you can't be white if your Jewish. I didn't realise Jewish was a colour! I'm of Jewish heritage (but not Jewish by religion) and as pale as pale can be. Am I not white because of this?
good god, the world's gone colour crazy!
A professor of medicine is an aspect of an individual that is created... Noone is born a professor of medicine - of that I am especially aware. Your argument is totally fallacious within the context of my posts.
I continue to question, and have yet to receive a cogent answer, as to why it is necessary to mention Stacey's colour and implicitly express a glee and overt approbration as to this as a qualifier to her presence in the Final?
I don't understand why it matters whether a specific is related to development or genetic assignment?
It's not fallacious for the poster to offer this example, as they are not the one defining a specific barrier of characteristics that may or may not be mentioned.
For instance, one could argue that the defining character "white" is only an issue that YOU have. After all, Stacey is not the first white PERSON to make the final. Only the first white FEMALE. Why not make an issue with the "female" characteristic?
You are defining characteristics that are acceptable to talk about, not the OP. It is not fallacious for people to disagree with your criteria for acceptable discussion points.
Please do note that referring to a person as black or white IS NOT racist. It is a fact. Stereotyping a person based on race and discriminating against them for that reason is racist. It is most definatley fallacious to claim that commenting on a racial characteristic is racist.
Excellent posts.
It is interesting to discuss these things - another point that has been raised in other threads is that there seem to be fewer contestants of Asian ancestry. (Likewise, there are not many Asians in UK football).
It would be so refreshing to be able to remark and speculate on these matters without sanctimonious prigs always jumping in with "Does it matter?" type comments. Yes, we get their message - they are not racists. Why are they so anxious to demonstrate it?
Total RUBBISH!
So millions of viewers voted for Alexandra because shes black and not for being the best????
GET A LIFE, I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE LIKE YOU :rolleyes:
The X Factor has the biggest gender biased out of all the talent shows I've seen
Nothing of the sort. Again, at the risk of being called priggish, I genuinely fail to see what the colour of Stacey's skin has to do with her being in the Final and why there ought to be a joyous response to this aspect of her journey within the competition. I think you'll find I generally have a negative response to those who try to introduce the race card into rtv... by and large I firmly believe, with notable exception, that the voting GBP are generally colour-blind when it comes to supporting a voice at least. So I am not trying to see racism where none may exist. Indeed, if you look back at the content of my posts, you will see that all I have asked for is the relevance of mentioning Stacey's race in, what to my mind, is giving it rather undue emphasis and seems unnecessary overall... it is a fallacy of logic to give such a factor precedence when the intent of the thread seemed to be a whoop-fest. I genuinely wanted to know the purpose.
Some have gone some way towards explaining why discussions of this nature can have relevance and I have acknowledged those as you can rea. Now others simply jumped on me defensively and implied varying motives to my posts that were inaccurate and not part of my mindset other than within the terms of their thinking... the above being an example.
I take no pleasure from conflict but I remain perplexed as to the purpose of the thread. The OP offers no real substantive other than woo Stacey is white, solo and i the Final. Fair play all true but why the need to vaunt it?
I wonder the same about the last woman standing approach too. Neither ought to be aspects that enender support in and of themmselves to my mind and it confuses me as to why promote them as bonus points when they are moot points
Priggish? Well ce sera if that as may be.
What was you response to the observation that was made on numerous occasions that Obama would be the first black president?