Scottish independence: let's have an honest debate (P3)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    bhoy07 wrote: »
    No, he shouldn't - however if negotiations don't go as smoothly as the Yes campaign claim they will and if what is agreed on is vastly different to the White Paper. Then I do think there would be a case of it going back to the people to decide.

    A "replay" would probably be the fairest solution to that. It would be interesting to see if this "high engagement level" held up for that due to the passion aroused by such a move, or if people became more disillusioned because of it.

    Would there be some voter fatigue?
  • momma11momma11 Posts: 3,843
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    KIIS102 wrote: »
    According to reports on twitter, it seems the Union Flag was ripped off the Cenotaph and burnt. Yes stickers were put onto the Cenotaph where the flag was. I can't believe this is what people have sunk too, the future of Scotland.

    I would need more evidence before I could believe this , if we are to go on the photo on twitter , there is no sign of a flag being burned , yet there is a policeman right in front of what seems a goodnatured crowd .
    The police have stated the event went off without incident .

    BTW, another tweeter has said they have walked past the Cenotaph , on the way to work , for the past 15 years , they claim there is no Union flag there to tear down .
    I'm not sure if that's true or not , I don't live in Glasgow .
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    mRebel wrote: »
    If Yes wins it won't be long before Yes voters are disappointed! When the promises of the SNP aren't fulfilled, like when they don't get currency union and continuing membership of the EU for a start, they are going to be angrily demanding an explanation from Slamond and co. I don't want Scotland to leave the UK, as I'm an Englishman who likes Scotland and have had many Scots friends over the years, though I do accept it's the Scots right to decide. And if the majority vote Yes, it will be interesting to hear the excuses of the SNP as to why they can't deliver their promises. I expect they've got those excuses ready.

    They were probably drafted around the same time as "The Vow".

    Cameron does need his arse kicked for such persistently bad judgement on major issues. He's a PR man with no real direction of his own.
  • Dub2Dub2 Posts: 2,862
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    If it's a narrow YES, by less than 1%, is it a big enough mandate for tearing up the nation, especially when you consider that England, Wales and Northern Ireland, all of whom oppose Scottish independence, didn't get a say.

    Cameron has a dreadful record of poor judgement, from Syria, Ukraine and also Scotland.



    If it's an extremely narrow YES vote by less than 1%, should Cameron block Scottish independence?

    The English do have a long record of ignoring democratic votes.

    The most apt example being the rejection of Irish Home Rule.

    Scots should be prepared for a battle, the English establishment are snakes and liars.
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    KIIS102 wrote: »
    Unfortunately it's true. Yes supports have ripped the Union Flag from it and put Yes stickers on it. Pictures on twitter. Very disrespectful

    It's happened before. November 2013. http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/glasgow-station-war-memorial-s-union-flag-damaged-1-3214116




    Do you have a link to the Twitter pictures?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    benjamini wrote: »
    Daughter is worried sick about it, she is a no voter. Son lives in London and gutted he cannot vote no and getting abuse . Son in Barbados also gutted he cannot vote no. Youngest daughter is worried about the backlash against no voters by the yes.

    My friend's new flatmate is Lithuanian and has recently arrived in this country and has a vote.

    That's just wrong when compared to people like your kids.

    Everything about this referendum has been so poorly considered.
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    A "replay" would probably be the fairest solution to that. It would be interesting to see if this "high engagement level" held up for that due to the passion aroused by such a move, or if people became more disillusioned because of it.

    Would there be some voter fatigue?

    we get to vote on the new constitution. if the negotiations havent went well, i dont see it passing
  • Dub2Dub2 Posts: 2,862
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    boddism wrote: »
    Been on the sharp end of online debate tonight.

    Some disputing claims (from both sides) of aggressive supporters (on both sides)

    anyone heard any stories about this kinda behaviour from either side?

    Im asking because Im hearing conflicting accounts/stories.

    No supporters flying Yes banners and burning British flags is what i am hearing.

    The only flag burners i am aware of are British orange order types...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    come on, thats hardly fair.

    I said that because i wanted to differentiate them from the official campaign.

    or are these guys doing Nazi salutes officially a part of BT?
    http://i.imgur.com/vXStEIv.jpg

    Weak photographic "evidence" fails to justify your prejudiced assertions.
  • mRebelmRebel Posts: 24,882
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    If it's a narrow YES, by less than 1%, is it a big enough mandate for tearing up the nation, especially when you consider that England, Wales and Northern Ireland, all of whom oppose Scottish independence, didn't get a say.

    Cameron has a dreadful record of poor judgement, from Syria, Ukraine and also Scotland.

    Seeing Brown today made me realise how much of a mistake we made in kicking him out. I've never seen Cameron, Clegg or Blair put in such a performance.

    Hypothetical question:

    If it's an extremely narrow YES vote by less than 1%, should Cameron block Scottish independence?

    If it;s so close there has to be a recount the tension will be unbearable!
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    Weak photographic "evidence" fails to justify your prejudiced assertions.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxwTTu9IYAANmcq.jpg
    http://oi59.tinypic.com/2dhimhe.jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wyx82UHEYg&feature=youtu.be

    the Asian guy on the vid is all over the internet, a proud SDL member
  • tiggertinytiggertiny Posts: 5,361
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    Dub2 wrote: »
    Most young soldiers in the world aren`t forced to sacrifice their lives for American oil interests in the middle east.

    I ask again how many Scots are forced to join the army?
  • mRebelmRebel Posts: 24,882
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    Dub2 wrote: »
    The English do have a long record of ignoring democratic votes.

    The most apt example being the rejection of Irish Home Rule.

    Scots should be prepared for a battle, the English establishment are snakes and liars.

    If you want to go to events of the past, the Scottish people were betrayed by the Scottish aristocracy at the time of the Act of Union and the clearances, not by England.
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    Dub2 wrote: »
    No supporters flying Yes banners and burning British flags is what i am hearing.

    The only flag burners i am aware of are British orange order types...


    Think again ;-)

    http://i.imgur.com/eCyNLjd.jpg
  • mimik1ukmimik1uk Posts: 46,701
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    Dub2 wrote: »
    The English do have a long record of ignoring democratic votes.

    The most apt example being the rejection of Irish Home Rule.

    Scots should be prepared for a battle, the English establishment are snakes and liars.

    nice to see your true colours finally come out

    your stance has nothing to do with what is best for Scotland but just seeing it as sticking it to the English
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
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    mimik1uk wrote: »
    nice to see your true colours finally come out

    your stance has nothing to do with what is best for Scotland but just seeing it as sticking it to the English

    Scotland has to face up to and apologise for, it's part in Empire

    all of history, we have been on the right side once.
  • momma11momma11 Posts: 3,843
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    I've just googled images of Glasgow Cenotaph.
    None of these pictures show any flags at all on the Cenotaph , Union or otherwise .
    Not even at the Remembrance Day Parade .
  • mimik1ukmimik1uk Posts: 46,701
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    Scotland has to face up to and apologise for, it's part in Empire

    all of history, we have been on the right side once.

    probably about the first thing I've came close to agreeing with you on

    been a lot of talk about all the previous countries that sought and won independence from the UK , one of the key differences between them and Scotland has always been however that none of those countries chose to be part of the UK , and Scotland was very much part of them becoming part of it in the first place
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    An Asian SDL member? There's something incongruous about that one.

    You're really struggling. Is there any sign of a BNP or EDL logo?

    There also appears to be no sign of a nazi salute.

    P.S. One still photograph has a bloke who might be doing one, but it's rather inconclusive.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
    Forum Member
    Scotland has to face up to and apologise for, it's part in Empire

    all of history, we have been on the right side once.
    Which Scot, currently alive, has been guilty of this imperial colonialism that you seem to have some preposterous obsession with?
  • Dub2Dub2 Posts: 2,862
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    mindset wrote: »
    The British Army has never had any trouble recruiting Irish citizens to fight our wars for us, even when those masterminds in Dublin made it a criminal offence for them to do so. Should Scotland choose independence, the UK will continue to recruit as many Scots as she wants.

    But in the meantime, thankyou Ireland!

    Hey, my grandfather managed to fight for the British in both world wars. He was fourteen when he was sent to the front in 1918. He was told his small nation, Ireland, would be granted freedom at the end of the war. We will always have young men who are prepared to fight for a perceived freedom.

    Your comment about the Irish making it illegal for citizens to join the British forces is an utter, despicable lie. But no different to the lies being fed to the Scottish people even as we speak.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    Electra wrote: »

    Now that's conclusive.
  • delegate zerodelegate zero Posts: 2,632
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    An Asian SDL member? There's something incongruous about that one.

    You're really struggling. Is there any sign of a BNP or EDL logo?

    There also appears to be no sign of a nazi salute.

    P.S. One still photograph has a bloke who might be doing one, but it's rather inconclusive.

    ok,you win, these guys are yer regular BT crew, not a right wing thug anywhere in sight
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    Zac_Jones wrote: »
    An Asian SDL member? There's something incongruous about that one.

    You're really struggling. Is there any sign of a BNP or EDL logo?

    There also appears to be no sign of a nazi salute.

    P.S. One still photograph has a bloke who might be doing one, but it's rather inconclusive.

    I thought he was definitely doing one but now I'm not so sure. His hand is blurred, as if he's possibly waving to someone. It could be either
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 181
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    Dub2 wrote: »
    No supporters flying Yes banners and burning British flags is what i am hearing.

    The only flag burners i am aware of are British orange order types...

    Oh Christ!

    Another sectarian obsessive!

    Is this a Scottish football forum or something?

    It seems like it's littered with football hooligans.
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