Urgh, no idea whats going on. The Greek government appear to be trying to create a new deal, have failed, but may get an extension tomorrow on something else that will have harsher conditions.
Greece can't get an extension , the bailout has expired as off tonight and they will default on the imf.
Their trying too apply for a new separate bailout now
Greece can't get an extension , the bailout has expired as off tonight and they will default on the imf.
Their trying too apply for a new separate bailout now
Yes, exactly. And until the next one is applied for and approved, then technically the ECB may not have to support their banks. It's all getting very messy.
Interesting comments from the Maltese PM, Joseph Muscat. He told the country's parliament that Greece has said it would be willing to suspend Sunday's planned referendum if talks restart and an agreement is reached: "They are ready to suspend their referendum or ask the people to vote 'yes' instead of 'no' if a package is put on the table with which they could agree."
This is getting silly now.
Tsipras knows that a YES vote as it stands now will bring him down, so he's moving the goalposts so that he can say "It's OK folks, you can vote YES now" and claim a victory.
Tsipras knows that a YES vote as it stands now will bring him down, so he's moving the goalposts so that he can say "It's OK folks, you can vote YES now" and claim a victory.
Yes, seems like it. Though I support grexit, Tsipras and Varoupakis are both inept politicians. They would never get voted into power if it wasn't for the debt crisis and austerity in Greece.
As for scaremongering from the EU, that is very wrong and that's the only reason why I'm in favour of Grexit, so the EU can see that scaremongering doesn't work anymore.
Yes, seems like it. Though I support grexit, Tsipras and Varoupakis are both inept politicians. They would never get voted into power if it wasn't for the debt crisis and austerity in Greece.
As for scaremongering from the EU, that is very wrong and that's the only reason why I'm in favour of Grexit, so the EU can see that scaremongering doesn't work anymore.
Ahead of Spanish elections later in the year, Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy told his people this morning if you want the chaos that Tsipras and Varaofakis has brought to Greece, vote Podemos.
The documents, drawn up by the so-called troika of lenders, support Greece’s argument that it needs substantial debt relief for a lasting economic recovery. They show that, even after 15 years of sustained strong growth, the country would face a level of debt that the International Monetary Fund deems unsustainable.
The documents also throw light on the €35bn investment package that several governments, including Germany’s, have this week pointed out was offered to Greece last week.
The second document in the pack of six, titled Reforms for the Completion of the Current Programme and Beyond, show there was less to this offer than suggested by commission president Jean-Claude Juncker and Germany’s vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel. The cash on offer is not an ad hoc investment but is actually an EU grant that is regularly available to all member states. And, as Süddeutsche Zeitung points out, accessing the cash requires a 15% co-financing in Greece’s case, which it cannot afford. Because of this, Greece has unspent sums from its €38bn 2007-2013 pot of available grants.
A third document outlines the “financing needs and draft disbursement schedule linked to the completion of the fifth review”, spelling out how Greece would have received €15bn to meet its obligations until the end of November. The cash would have been handed over in five tranches starting in June (as soon as the Greek parliament approved the proposals) to cover Greece’s financing needs. However, 93% of the funds would have gone straight to cover the cost of maturing debt for the duration of the extension.
Reuters reporting that Tsipras has told the eurogroup if they agree a new bailout he will either call off his referendum or support and call for a yes vote.
This after being told no debt relief deal. Oh and I thought Syriza campaigned on no new bailouts.
These guys are amateurs. They're destroying the other left movements in the rest of the eurozone with their sheer incompetency and mayhem in Greece.
Reuters reporting that Tsipras has told the eurogroup if they agree a new bailout he will either call off his referendum or support and call for a yes vote.
This after being told no debt relief deal. Oh and I thought Syriza campaigned on no new bailouts.
These guys are amateurs. They're destroying the other left movements in the rest of the eurozone with their sheer incompetency and mayhem in Greece.
They tried to bluff the Eurozone and lost. It's a pity because Greece defaulting and leaving the Eurozone would be the best way get Greece back on it's feet long-term. However it would hurt the rest of the Eurozone.
They tried to bluff the Eurozone and lost. It's a pity because Greece defaulting and leaving the Eurozone would be the best way get Greece back on it's feet long-term. However it would hurt the rest of the Eurozone.
I think Germany would have let them go which is key.
The fact Yes looks likely really shows how turkeys will vote for Xmas. Unless the debt is written off Greece isn't getting better, end of story.
The EU is a dictatorship though.
I was a major Europhile for years but I agree with this 100% anyone who can't see how toxic and destructive the EU is must be a total moron. In some cases the 50 states of the US have more freedoms when it comes to decision making internally than European countries, the whole continent is federal in all but name.
The heart of the issue is that Greece has very low productivity, a welfare state that is unaffordable, taxes that dont get collected and an economy that isnt in the 21st century. The fault for those are squarely on Greek politicians.
Blaming the banks is lazy. Even if there has been fault by the bankers, they arent the underlying problem. The underlying problem is Greece is an economic basketcase
So banks lending to a credit risk borrower is okay with you?
So banks lending to a credit risk borrower is okay with you?
In 2007 EuroWeek even praised Greece with the award of "Soverign Borrower of the Year" after polling several major bankers and banks. Banks were encouraging everyone to borrow as much as possible at the time, its how they operated.
Banks get bailouts and nobody else does is how Europe works. If anything they are the biggest recipients of the "welfare state".
In the interview last night, I'm sure he said words to the effect that if there were 'enough' NO votes (whatever that means), this would give him a mandate to continue negotiations. He seemed to be saying that even if YES wins in a democratic election, he will effectively disregard it because he has a responsibility to represent those who voted NO.
Someone tell me he didn't say that!
No, he said in the event of a yes win his government will resign.
He's already threatening legal action to make the other countires keep Greece in the euro. While that sounds tough, Greece would be going through some severe economic problems while that raged on. To be honest the whole thing seems a complete mess, but the Greek government are just acting like everything will be fine if the public just vote no. That would only be the start of their problems, things could get nasty. Syriza came to pwoer riding a wave of populism, they can easily be dragged down by it. The military must all be booking their holidays and trying to avoid looking like they want to take over (which I doubt they do, it would be suicide).
Has the EU/IMF austerity of the last 5 years made everything fine?
Has the EU/IMF austerity of the last 5 years made everything fine?
This is quite a good explanation of the disgraceful way that the IMF and EU have dealt with the whole Greek crisis.
It will be a humiliating day for Greece to find itself numbered among such failed states which have, in effect, stiffed the other governments of the world. But make no mistake: this is also a humiliating day for the IMF itself.
former head of the IMF, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, ignored that rulebook five years ago. When the Fund arrived, Greece’s sovereign debt burden in 2010 had already spiralled to 133 per cent of GDP and should clearly have been written down, with the holders of the debt forced to swallow big losses.
Yet Mr Strauss-Kahn acquiesced in the insistence of the Europeans that Greece’s sovereign debts should not be restructured and that the country should be made to pay-off its liabilities in full.
The eurocrats argued that with other struggling eurozone countries (such as Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain) under scrutiny from the markets, a Greek write-off would trigger mass panic. That was bad enough of course, since it meant the IMF was effectively busy propping up the broader eurozone, rather than thinking about Greece’s best interests.
But what made the episode a true scandal was that European leaders were also mindful that German and French banks held sizeable chunks of Greece’s sovereign debt on their books. A write-down would have forced those banks to record big losses. They might have even needed a public bailout.
It’s perhaps no surprise that Germany’s Angela Merkel and France’s Nicolas Sarkozy wanted to avoid that. But a technocratic institution such as the IMF should never have gone along with it.
Reuters reporting that Tsipras has told the eurogroup if they agree a new bailout he will either call off his referendum or support and call for a yes vote.
This after being told no debt relief deal. Oh and I thought Syriza campaigned on no new bailouts.
These guys are amateurs. They're destroying the other left movements in the rest of the eurozone with their sheer incompetency and mayhem in Greece.
socialist asking for more of other peoples money
nice try but they called your bluff Tsipras you lost
You can blame EU (I'm no fan) but the basic problem here is Greece. They have no intention of doing what it takes to sort country out. The bail outs had a range of agreements in place. They've done some but not others. Basically made cuts but not collected taxes. EU is a bottomless pit of money they want access to. They don't want to leave.
Syriza is the first Greek government with a credible plan to end tax evasion.
It's kind of like a shit transfer deadline day. Large amounts of money riding on getting the deal through before midnight. I'm half-expecting Jim White to turn up.
Slightly less flippantly, it's good to know that you literally have to be less than an hour away from default before Fitch downgrades their rating of you to "junk". It would appear to be a very narrow rating band in terms of qualifying criteria.
Comments
Greece can't get an extension , the bailout has expired as off tonight and they will default on the imf.
Their trying too apply for a new separate bailout now
Yes, exactly. And until the next one is applied for and approved, then technically the ECB may not have to support their banks. It's all getting very messy.
This is getting silly now.
Tsipras knows that a YES vote as it stands now will bring him down, so he's moving the goalposts so that he can say "It's OK folks, you can vote YES now" and claim a victory.
Yes, seems like it. Though I support grexit, Tsipras and Varoupakis are both inept politicians. They would never get voted into power if it wasn't for the debt crisis and austerity in Greece.
As for scaremongering from the EU, that is very wrong and that's the only reason why I'm in favour of Grexit, so the EU can see that scaremongering doesn't work anymore.
Ahead of Spanish elections later in the year, Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy told his people this morning if you want the chaos that Tsipras and Varaofakis has brought to Greece, vote Podemos.
very interesting report in the Guardian.
This after being told no debt relief deal. Oh and I thought Syriza campaigned on no new bailouts.
These guys are amateurs. They're destroying the other left movements in the rest of the eurozone with their sheer incompetency and mayhem in Greece.
True.
They tried to bluff the Eurozone and lost. It's a pity because Greece defaulting and leaving the Eurozone would be the best way get Greece back on it's feet long-term. However it would hurt the rest of the Eurozone.
I think Germany would have let them go which is key.
I was a major Europhile for years but I agree with this 100% anyone who can't see how toxic and destructive the EU is must be a total moron. In some cases the 50 states of the US have more freedoms when it comes to decision making internally than European countries, the whole continent is federal in all but name.
So banks lending to a credit risk borrower is okay with you?
In 2007 EuroWeek even praised Greece with the award of "Soverign Borrower of the Year" after polling several major bankers and banks. Banks were encouraging everyone to borrow as much as possible at the time, its how they operated.
Banks get bailouts and nobody else does is how Europe works. If anything they are the biggest recipients of the "welfare state".
Ok with me as long as they factor in the risk. Banks do this with every loan they do.
Once Greece default and fall out of the Euro, banks will still lend to them. Why wouldn't they?
No, he said in the event of a yes win his government will resign.
Has the EU/IMF austerity of the last 5 years made everything fine?
This is quite a good explanation of the disgraceful way that the IMF and EU have dealt with the whole Greek crisis.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/greece-crisis-imf-was-pushed-around-by-angela-merkel-and-nicholas-sarkozy--and-now-it-is-being-humiliated-10356247.html
socialist asking for more of other peoples money
nice try but they called your bluff Tsipras you lost
good luck on your own
Syriza is the first Greek government with a credible plan to end tax evasion.
Slightly less flippantly, it's good to know that you literally have to be less than an hour away from default before Fitch downgrades their rating of you to "junk". It would appear to be a very narrow rating band in terms of qualifying criteria.