It's quite a complex, multi-step policy that is radically different from the Tories'.
1. Bitch ad naseum about the EU to anyone who will listen and moot the possibility of a referendum in a few parliaments' time.
2. Sign away as much sovereignty as humanly possible whenever the opportunity arises.
3. Repeat.
It's quite a complex, multi-step policy that is radically different from the Tories'.
1. Bitch ad naseum about the EU to anyone who will listen and moot the possibility of a referendum in a few parliaments' time.
2. Sign away as much sovereignty as humanly possible whenever the opportunity arises.
3. Repeat.
Then there is The Conservatives...
1. do nothing
2. Wait until another party looks slightly more right wing
3. Promise a vote on something, based on something not defined
At least Labour are honest. The Tories are vote chasing. They do not care about the EU. They just want re-election.
1) Abolish borders completely so even more people can come here.
2) Let the ECHR rule supreme over our laws.
3) Sign away even more powers to Brussels
4) Pay even more money in to EU coffers and/or abolish our annual rebate.
1) Abolish borders completely so even more people can come here.
2) Let the ECHR rule supreme over our laws.
3) Sign away even more powers to Brussels
4) Pay even more money in to EU coffers and/or abolish our annual rebate.
5) Present themselves as pro-EU as possible so that their MPs have the best chance of moving on to a career within the EU Commission after they resign or lose their seats.
Labour has fewer Eurosceptics because the EU is essentially a socialist construct with many layers of governing bodies designed to control the way we live, therefore, the Party has no interest in reforming the EU at all.
The danger comes as politics at a local level (i.e. national governments) is weakened and decisions are made further away in Brussels. This is, paradoxically, why the more extreme left wing tend to be more Eurosceptic (the late Tony Benn, Peter Shore and Bob Crow, and the living Brian "Proud to be a Keynesian Eurosceptic" Gould) as they see the EU as a threat to an effective unionised workforce.
OH surprise surprise another anti Labour sneer thread, keep em coming folks, the more they appear the more it shows just how rattled the Tories are.
As for Labour's position on the EU, not that anyone really wanted to know of course.
EU referendum 'unlikely' under Labour, says Ed Miliband
An EU referendum is "unlikely" to take place if Labour wins the next general election, Ed Miliband has said.
In a speech in London, the Labour leader said there was an "overwhelming economic case" for EU membership.
But he said he did not back an "inexorable" process of political union and Labour would "guarantee" an in-out referendum if the UK was being asked to transfer more powers to Brussels.
Lots of people complain that there is no difference between the parties, and then some of them want all parties, to promise the same things,
So there you have it, one clear difference between Labour, the Tories and Ukip,
another one would be the spare room fine, with the Tories being the ONLY party to say they will keep it, while every other party is saying they would scrap it, or replace it with a fairer system, ("fair" look it up) including the BNP. If I was a member of the Tory party I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of that.
OH surprise surprise another anti Labour sneer thread, keep em coming folks, the more they appear the more it shows just how rattled the Tories are.
As for Labour's position on the EU, not that anyone really wanted to know of course.
Lots of people complain that there is no difference between the parties, and then some of them want all parties, to promise the same things,
So there you have it, one clear difference between Labour, the Tories and Ukip,
another one would be the spare room fine, with the Tories being the ONLY party to say they will keep it, while every other party is saying they would scrap it, or replace it with a fairer system, ("fair" look it up) including the BNP. If I was a member of the Tory party I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of that.
What about giving the European Parliament powers that the unelected EU bodies have?
Transparency and accountability re the EU budget?
Curbing expenses of MEPs?
Blocking new members' applications until the current arrangements work properly?
It doesn't matter what their policy is any more than it matters what the Tories' policy is. Reforming the EU isn't going to happen. The options are in or out.
What about giving the European Parliament powers that the unelected EU bodies have?
Transparency and accountability re the EU budget?
Curbing expenses of MEPs?
Blocking new members' applications until the current arrangements work properly?
How is Labour going to press for those things?
Or isn't it?
I was responding to the sarcastic sneers that were implying that Labour has no policies on the EU, when quite clearly they do, 'point made' I am sure you would agree?
Reform in Europe, not exit from Europe – that is Labour’s message
Now I admit to not knowing the details that I have listed, (I remembered some and half remembered others) but it took no more than a 30 second google to find those details,
probably about half the time it takes to come up with another hilarious sneer.
They don't have a real one on reforming the EU but nor do the Tories, it is a pointless exercise anyway. They offer an in/out referendum if there is a proposal to transfer further powers to the EU.
I was responding to the sarcastic sneers that were implying that Labour has no policies on the EU, when quite clearly they do, 'point made' I am sure you would agree?
Now I admit to not knowing the details that I have listed, (I remembered some and half remembered others) but it took no more than a 30 second google to find those details,
probably about half the time it takes to come up with another hilarious sneer.
I found the link quite useful.
Quotes:
1. "He (Miliband) promised a "new lock" to guarantee "no transfer of powers without an in/out referendum with a clear choice about whether Britain stays in the EU".
2. "Mr Miliband argued EU reforms were required, including:
Completing the single market in energy, services and the digital economy
Lengthening the transitional period during which restrictions can be curbed on immigration from new member states
Making it easier to deport recent immigrants who have broken the law
But these could be achieved without a new treaty, he argued."
BUT I think Labour should be crawling all over EU with a broader positive reform agenda from Day 1 of 2015 if there is such a thing and continue daily until 2020. Not just commit to those points if no further powers are transferred.
I don't know of one enthusiastic EU Brit - including Lib Dems - who doesn't believe strongly that more powers should be transferred inside EU to the elected representatives and that the EU budget needs an entirely different approach as well as being properly sorted out. Many also think the system of expenses there is not at all right.
There is nothing to be lost by vigorously pursuing such an agenda - ie being a permanent thorn in the side a la Thatcher - but quite a lot to lose if generally Miliband just sits back and flicks his hair. It all looks too relaxed.
They don't have a real one on reforming the EU but nor do the Tories, it is a pointless exercise anyway. They offer an in/out referendum if there is a proposal to transfer further powers to the EU.
If you want a referendum it's UKIP or the Tories.
Maybe so JM but the difference being UKIP want out and the Tory top brass want to stay in.
Alternatively, we could introduce a complete immigration check on everyone entering the GB mainland from Northern Ireland. Leaving Northern Ireland to continue with the open unpatrolled border with the Republic of Ireland.
OH surprise surprise another anti Labour sneer thread, keep em coming folks, the more they appear the more it shows just how rattled the Tories are.
As for Labour's position on the EU, not that anyone really wanted to know of course.
Lots of people complain that there is no difference between the parties, and then some of them want all parties, to promise the same things,
So there you have it, one clear difference between Labour, the Tories and Ukip,
another one would be the spare room fine, with the Tories being the ONLY party to say they will keep it, while every other party is saying they would scrap it, or replace it with a fairer system, ("fair" look it up) including the BNP. If I was a member of the Tory party I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of that.
Not the Lisbon Treaty which apparently Labour thought wasn't the same as the EU Constitution so no vote was needed on that and it was just a tidying up exercise. (rolleyes)
Not the Lisbon Treaty which apparently Labour thought wasn't the same as the EU Constitution so no vote was needed on that and it was just a tidying up exercise. (rolleyes)
So their 'policy' was agreeing with and rubber stamping a complete fudge.
I was responding to the sarcastic sneers that were implying that Labour has no policies on the EU, when quite clearly they do, 'point made' I am sure you would agree?
Now I admit to not knowing the details that I have listed, (I remembered some and half remembered others) but it took no more than a 30 second google to find those details,
probably about half the time it takes to come up with another hilarious sneer.
it's hilarious that you actually think Labour has the ability and the will to reform Europe:D
OH surprise surprise another anti Labour sneer thread, keep em coming folks, the more they appear the more it shows just how rattled the Tories are.
As for Labour's position on the EU, not that anyone really wanted to know of course.
Lots of people complain that there is no difference between the parties, and then some of them want all parties, to promise the same things,
So there you have it, one clear difference between Labour, the Tories and Ukip,
another one would be the spare room fine, with the Tories being the ONLY party to say they will keep it, while every other party is saying they would scrap it, or replace it with a fairer system, ("fair" look it up) including the BNP. If I was a member of the Tory party I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of that.
Lateralthinking
Posts: 8,027
Comments
I think that's it!
1. Bitch ad naseum about the EU to anyone who will listen and moot the possibility of a referendum in a few parliaments' time.
2. Sign away as much sovereignty as humanly possible whenever the opportunity arises.
3. Repeat.
Then there is The Conservatives...
1. do nothing
2. Wait until another party looks slightly more right wing
3. Promise a vote on something, based on something not defined
At least Labour are honest. The Tories are vote chasing. They do not care about the EU. They just want re-election.
They say there are a lot of things wrong with EU.
Why wouldn't they want to do what Cameron claims he will do even though they won't be having a referendum?
ie Propose a lot of specific changes and negotiate?
1) Abolish borders completely so even more people can come here.
2) Let the ECHR rule supreme over our laws.
3) Sign away even more powers to Brussels
4) Pay even more money in to EU coffers and/or abolish our annual rebate.
When I opened this thread I was half expecting tumble weeds to be rolling all over the floor.
Labour has no policy on the EU.
Very droll!!
5) Present themselves as pro-EU as possible so that their MPs have the best chance of moving on to a career within the EU Commission after they resign or lose their seats.
Labour has fewer Eurosceptics because the EU is essentially a socialist construct with many layers of governing bodies designed to control the way we live, therefore, the Party has no interest in reforming the EU at all.
The danger comes as politics at a local level (i.e. national governments) is weakened and decisions are made further away in Brussels. This is, paradoxically, why the more extreme left wing tend to be more Eurosceptic (the late Tony Benn, Peter Shore and Bob Crow, and the living Brian "Proud to be a Keynesian Eurosceptic" Gould) as they see the EU as a threat to an effective unionised workforce.
As for Labour's position on the EU, not that anyone really wanted to know of course.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26538420
Lots of people complain that there is no difference between the parties, and then some of them want all parties, to promise the same things,
So there you have it, one clear difference between Labour, the Tories and Ukip,
another one would be the spare room fine, with the Tories being the ONLY party to say they will keep it, while every other party is saying they would scrap it, or replace it with a fairer system, ("fair" look it up) including the BNP. If I was a member of the Tory party I would be embarrassed and deeply ashamed of that.
What about giving the European Parliament powers that the unelected EU bodies have?
Transparency and accountability re the EU budget?
Curbing expenses of MEPs?
Blocking new members' applications until the current arrangements work properly?
How is Labour going to press for those things?
Or isn't it?
I was responding to the sarcastic sneers that were implying that Labour has no policies on the EU, when quite clearly they do, 'point made' I am sure you would agree?
EDITED TO ADD,
BUT a quick google came up with this,
http://labourlist.org/2014/03/6-ways-labour-wants-to-reform-europe/
there is more detail on each of those points in the actual link, of course these things haven't been seen in the right wing media,
MORE?, (well you did ask)
http://labourlist.org/2013/02/reform-in-europe-not-exit-from-europe-that-is-labours-message/
Now I admit to not knowing the details that I have listed, (I remembered some and half remembered others) but it took no more than a 30 second google to find those details,
probably about half the time it takes to come up with another hilarious sneer.
If you want a referendum it's UKIP or the Tories.
I found the link quite useful.
Quotes:
1. "He (Miliband) promised a "new lock" to guarantee "no transfer of powers without an in/out referendum with a clear choice about whether Britain stays in the EU".
2. "Mr Miliband argued EU reforms were required, including:
Completing the single market in energy, services and the digital economy
Lengthening the transitional period during which restrictions can be curbed on immigration from new member states
Making it easier to deport recent immigrants who have broken the law
But these could be achieved without a new treaty, he argued."
BUT I think Labour should be crawling all over EU with a broader positive reform agenda from Day 1 of 2015 if there is such a thing and continue daily until 2020. Not just commit to those points if no further powers are transferred.
I don't know of one enthusiastic EU Brit - including Lib Dems - who doesn't believe strongly that more powers should be transferred inside EU to the elected representatives and that the EU budget needs an entirely different approach as well as being properly sorted out. Many also think the system of expenses there is not at all right.
There is nothing to be lost by vigorously pursuing such an agenda - ie being a permanent thorn in the side a la Thatcher - but quite a lot to lose if generally Miliband just sits back and flicks his hair. It all looks too relaxed.
Maybe so JM but the difference being UKIP want out and the Tory top brass want to stay in.
Exactly powers did you have in mind ?
I agree, just saying they are the only two parties offering a referendum.
That will please the Republic of Ireland who can then join Schengen.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/mar/04/immigration-eu
Alternatively, we could introduce a complete immigration check on everyone entering the GB mainland from Northern Ireland. Leaving Northern Ireland to continue with the open unpatrolled border with the Republic of Ireland.
What is more powers?
Not the Lisbon Treaty which apparently Labour thought wasn't the same as the EU Constitution so no vote was needed on that and it was just a tidying up exercise. (rolleyes)
So their 'policy' was agreeing with and rubber stamping a complete fudge.
it's hilarious that you actually think Labour has the ability and the will to reform Europe:D
I would like to direct everyone to this act brought in in 2011:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Act_2011
(i linked to wikipedia as its easier to read but here is the official legislature http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/12/contents)
Every political party HAS to offer a referendum if there are more transfer of powers. It's the law.
Trying to make it a policy for something that have to do is not a party policy.