Do any of you guys finding yourself having a preconceived idea of the quality of a former contestant? Does anyone here avoid their music due to their association with these shows? If so, why?
I find i seek out an "X Factor" Artist because of the show they've come from, but mainly to see if the music is as bad as so many people seem to automatically assume it is. Some of it is decent, some isn't.
But then I don't tend to pigeonhole music into genres or styles like that anyway - i just listen to music, good or bad.
I only tend to dismiss the Winners Single as it's usually a bit bland and cheesy for me. Saying that I was really surprised by Impossible, I think because it wasn't an obvious choice, so I hope this continues this year.
Ironically, the x factor label seems to hurt certain artists for this reason
Agreed! As much as people go on about "acts gaining overnight success, when other acts have been slogging it out for years etc etc", I don't see any reason why folk can't enter X Factor.
They know what they're getting into. With X Factor you get instant success for a limited period, but risk your credibility and ending up dropped within a year.
You can also go the more "authentic" route and do gigs around the country and build yourself up, which may lead to long term success and credibility or you may get no where.
(I put authentic in quote marks, not because I have anything against someone making their own way in the industry but because I know some music is viewed to be "better" depending on whether the artist has written the lyrics, music or plays their own instruments etc)
I fail to see how you can get an emotional connection to something that the artist has had no say in.
For me it's easy - I don't need one! As long as I can enjoy the music or melody of my favourite singer's songs, enjoy their music videos and live performances I'm happy.
Lyrics aren't one of the reasons I will listen to an artist - it's what their music sounds like, regardless of whether they composed it themselves or can't even read a note of music.
I think there is a bit deal about credibility in the music industry (which doesn't seem as common in other industries e.g. acting) but sometimes I wonder how important it is to write all your own stuff? After all there are a lot of talented songwriters out there who can't hold a note, so they obviously have to give their songs to someone else to sing, otherwise we would miss out on a lot of amazing tracks.
Also, my favourite singer writes all her own lyrics (and I have come to appreciate some lyrics more in recent years although it's not something I "listen" out for)and has even composed the melody of a few of her songs (although not arranged it) but due to her style of music and limits when it comes to her vocals, would not be considered credible I don't think.
On another X Factor note, I do wish the judges would stop going on about "emotionally connecting to the song". I don't care whether the believe in the lyrics or not OK, just go up on the stage and look like you're having fun and entertain me. If you're not really "connected" to this heart wrenching story of a broken heart, I honestly don't care!
Yeah, I admit I will generally dismiss an act if I know they're associated with the devil's TV show, though I do end up liking some of the acts and have even bought their album.
I'm not against manufactured pop and if I like a song it doesn't really matter who it's by or whether they wrote it, played their own instruments, used autotune etc. I generally like girl groups but have had a hard time warming to Little Mix - I think the problem is they're OK but no better than average, and no better than the girl groups that have been dropped from their record labels like Girls Can't Catch or Parade, but have ended up more successful because of the Cowell money making machine.
I generally like girl groups but have had a hard time warming to Little Mix - I think the problem is they're OK but no better than average, and no better than the girl groups that have been dropped from their record labels like Girls Can't Catch or Parade, but have ended up more successful because of the Cowell money making machine.
I don't think it is any secret anymore that Syco very much like the 'marketable' acts. They love 1D & Little Mix because of all the money making potential they have on their side through merchandise and clothing lines etc. etc. Little Mix seem to be fighting for more and more creative control and got their own way largely with their most recent album and have ditched a lot of the original branding and imagery from the first album, how this effects their relationship with Syco long term remains to be seen.
A lot of people are getting shot down on the X Factor forums for saying that Sam Bailey this year will struggle for success after the show. Unfortunately despite having a cracking voice I very much doubt Syco will that interested beyond the initial cash in, which will most likely be a cover album. She's just not marketable.
The thing I always find rather interesting is how popular these shows are and yet how few of the acts created via the show end up selling a lot of records. When the show was getting 15 million viewers every week you'd expect the 'artist' crowded the winner to be a mega success. So why aren't they? Is it because the average viewer of the show isn't actually that interested in music and just watches the show as a form of light entertainment? Therefore is the show in itself a failure in what it's trying to achieve?
The thing I always find rather interesting is how popular these shows are and yet how few of the acts created via the show end up selling a lot of records. When the show was getting 15 million viewers every week you'd expect the 'artist' crowded the winner to be a mega success. So why aren't they? Is it because the average viewer of the show isn't actually that interested in music and just watches the show as a form of light entertainment? Therefore is the show in itself a failure in what it's trying to achieve?
we certainly watch as light entertainment, to which its perfect for saturday night. we have never voted for anyone either.
I wonder if alternative talent shows like The Voice are a help or hindrance?
I couldn't name one Voice contestant until I heard one by accident the other day. Max Milner, sounds a bit like Ed Sheeran, well he's written a couple of really nice songs, and I heard him played on the radio because he had a show in Manchester that night. He doesn't seem to have had any hits yet though.
I only tend to dismiss the Winners Single as it's usually a bit bland and cheesy for me. Saying that I was really surprised by Impossible, I think because it wasn't an obvious choice, so I hope this continues this year.
Agreed! As much as people go on about "acts gaining overnight success, when other acts have been slogging it out for years etc etc", I don't see any reason why folk can't enter X Factor.
They know what they're getting into. With X Factor you get instant success for a limited period, but risk your credibility and ending up dropped within a year.
You can also go the more "authentic" route and do gigs around the country and build yourself up, which may lead to long term success and credibility or you may get no where.
(I put authentic in quote marks, not because I have anything against someone making their own way in the industry but because I know some music is viewed to be "better" depending on whether the artist has written the lyrics, music or plays their own instruments etc)
For me it's easy - I don't need one! As long as I can enjoy the music or melody of my favourite singer's songs, enjoy their music videos and live performances I'm happy.
Lyrics aren't one of the reasons I will listen to an artist - it's what their music sounds like, regardless of whether they composed it themselves or can't even read a note of music.
I think there is a bit deal about credibility in the music industry (which doesn't seem as common in other industries e.g. acting) but sometimes I wonder how important it is to write all your own stuff? After all there are a lot of talented songwriters out there who can't hold a note, so they obviously have to give their songs to someone else to sing, otherwise we would miss out on a lot of amazing tracks.
Also, my favourite singer writes all her own lyrics (and I have come to appreciate some lyrics more in recent years although it's not something I "listen" out for)and has even composed the melody of a few of her songs (although not arranged it) but due to her style of music and limits when it comes to her vocals, would not be considered credible I don't think.
On another X Factor note, I do wish the judges would stop going on about "emotionally connecting to the song". I don't care whether the believe in the lyrics or not OK, just go up on the stage and look like you're having fun and entertain me. If you're not really "connected" to this heart wrenching story of a broken heart, I honestly don't care!
You seem to see music as entertainment and a pass time. There's absolutely nothing at all wrong with that and you are probably in the majority. For some though music has to emotionally connect with you to mean something or seem worthwhile. It goes deeper than entertainment. People create their own meaning to every lyric or create their own imagery to a certain sound. It effects them on such a personal level that it changes them as people. It has the power to make people see things in a different light.
The emotional, psychological and maybe even spiritual aspects of what music gives us is hard to define and is different to everyone. It has little to do with what seems credible and more to do with how you interpret something. For instance I can't take the cover song releases from X Factor artists seriously as they have had no say in it. It isn't something I can connect to or believe in as it's not been produced with any meaning but to make money. It may well be entertaining for many and may mean something to someone but for me it's something that's totally without genuine emotion.
If it genuinely moves you then who am I to deny you that pleasure? Music is something that inspires creativity in every aspect of my life and I just can't but into something that is clearly made to make money alone.
You seem to see music as entertainment and a pass time. There's absolutely nothing at all wrong with that and you are probably in the majority. For some though music has to emotionally connect with you to mean something or seem worthwhile. It goes deeper than entertainment. People create their own meaning to every lyric or create their own imagery to a certain sound. It effects them on such a personal level that it changes them as people. It has the power to make people see things in a different light.
The emotional, psychological and maybe even spiritual aspects of what music gives us is hard to define and is different to everyone. It has little to do with what seems credible and more to do with how you interpret something. For instance I can't take the cover song releases from X Factor artists seriously as they have had no say in it. It isn't something I can connect to or believe in as it's not been produced with any meaning but to make money. It may well be entertaining for many and may mean something to someone but for me it's something that's totally without genuine emotion.
If it genuinely moves you then who am I to deny you that pleasure? Music is something that inspires creativity in every aspect of my life and I just can't but into something that is clearly made to make money alone.
whilst i agree with you about what music can/should mean, i also think that theres a place for a brain dead ditty too. for instance i love this .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhVK8bjLz4
a simply, catchy, upbeat, bit of nonsense that one can apply their own 'ownership' to.
His response, "Nah, don't listen to any X Factor crap".
Which got me thinking, how many non-fans of the show (or any shows, American Idol, BGT, The Voice etc) immediately dismiss an artists credentials due to the fact they got to where they are via a reality show?
I never dismiss anyone I haven't heard...
There have been some reasonable singers to come out of it like Leona, Alexandra and Rydian to name a few.
But there has also been some unbelievably dire, talentless garbage like Leon and 1D who are so bad that it's hard not to be dismissive of the whole.
You seem to see music as entertainment and a pass time.
Yeah, that's pretty true!
For me lyrics just aren't top of my list. I get enjoyment from a well put together album booklet or cover art, or seeing which instruments feature on songs (maybe there's one I like, e.g. the harp feature or an unusual one in there), visually appealing videos, which composer or arranger the singer has worked with (quite sad but I do enjoy reading the credits of an album, and despite lyrics not being my main draw, it does bug me when they are crammed into like 2 pages instead of laid out nicely through the album booklet!)
I might not always care or relate to the lyrics themselves but a lot of albums have nostalgic value for me - they remind me of good times or what I was doing at a certain point in time.
(I also listen to some foreign music, and have found some lyrics I appreciate through translations but a lot of time I have no idea what they're singing about or only a vague idea. I also enjoy some videogame music too and there's generally no vocals so no lyrics there, again a lot of nostalgic value and some of it I just genuinely like. )
For instance I can't take the cover song releases from X Factor artists seriously as they have had no say in it.
A good singer will always bring something of their own to a song regardless of whether they had any other input in it or not... In fact it could be argued that it takes a far greater level of skill to do that with someone else's song than it is with a song tailor made for you that possibly even hides your weaknesses.
Yeah, lots of people will automatically dismiss them. So idiotic.
To be honest, I don't like the vast majority of songs done by an X Factor singer, but I'm at least open to the concept of liking one.
In other genres like hip hop, house, rock, etc. the artists usually have to work their way up to fame from the underground, but that hasn't been the case with pop music for a very long time. People like Lady Gaga and Katy Perry got instant overnight success too. It's not just X Factor artists, and it's not a big deal, it's just the way it is. The vast majority of people from the show don't have success anyway.
Can't speak for GaGa as I've never really looked into it, but Katy Perry's success didn't happen overnight. She was signed and dropped a few times before actually having any success.
A good singer will always bring something of their own to a song regardless of whether they had any other input in it or not... In fact it could be argued that it takes a far greater level of skill to do that with someone else's song than it is with a song tailor made for you that possibly even hides your weaknesses.
I don't agree that a voice alone can make a song your own. Maybe it shows your range as a singer but that doesn't mean you make it your song in any way for me
I don't agree that a voice alone can make a song your own. Maybe it shows your range as a singer but that doesn't mean you make it your song in any way for me
in fairness, gneiss said tha a "good singer will always bring something of their own", that suggests to me that they can get into the emotion of a track, connect with it, and interpret it through singing.
It's ironic, really. A lot of the people on here and elsewhere who wouldn't listen to an XF act because they're not 'real' or whatever would probably cream their pants if they heard some of Aiden's recent output on the radio without knowing who it was, or indeed, if it was being released by an unknown artist. The Cleaner is as good as anything being released by the flavour-of-the-month indie artists at the moment, but no self-styled 'real music fan' would ever admit to it. Laughable, really.
I judge music on how good it is. I don't watch XF to discover new music, I watch it because it's a great TV show to discuss and dissect, but the output of artists after the show is pretty insignificant to me. If it's good, that's a happy coincidence.
Don't watch X Factor, if I want to watch Karaoke I will go down the pub.
If an artist is good enough they will sell records and have longevity (regardless how they were found). These said artists don't last (not many of them anyway) for a simple reason, they are not very good. All these people that vote for the winners, why do they stop buying the records?
It's ironic, really. A lot of the people on here and elsewhere who wouldn't listen to an XF act because they're not 'real' or whatever would probably cream their pants if they heard some of Aiden's recent output on the radio without knowing who it was, or indeed, if it was being released by an unknown artist. The Cleaner is as good as anything being released by the flavour-of-the-month indie artists at the moment, but no self-styled 'real music fan' would ever admit to it. Laughable, really.
I judge music on how good it is. I don't watch XF to discover new music, I watch it because it's a great TV show to discuss and dissect, but the output of artists after the show is pretty insignificant to me. If it's good, that's a happy coincidence.
Great singing has never been about the voice alone...
I totally agree. The blandest records are often the ones with a pitch perfect vocal. My favorite types of cover songs are those that take the original to such a different place that it becomes almost a new song in it's own right. Obvious examples are Hurt by Johnny Cash and Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley. The fact that the X Factor winners actually sang versions truer to the covers than the originals of these two songs is proof to me how you can make a cover song your own. In Buckleys case at least, I'd say his version is seen as the definitive version and not the original Leonard Cohen one. That's why I am not doubting someone can cover a song and bring something really special to them
Not X Factor, but american Idol has produced two artists that I love in Scotty McCreery and Kelly Clarkson. I dont think it has diminished how I feel about them. Same with Miranda Lambert and Nashville Star, Joey + Rory and Steel Magnolia from Can You Duet. If I like someone I like them and where they came from doesnt influence that. Crissy from this years X Factor is in a duo called The Shires now and I would buy her stuff in a heartbeat.
Is this another I'm better than you because I like all types of music thread?
You will probably find that the people posting in this thread saying they give this music a chance are the people who listen to this type of music anyway.
People who listen to other types of music because this is what they prefer are not going to listen. This does not make them worse than anyone else or music snobs, it just means they know what they do and do not like and don't need the same old crap thrust down their throats all the time to make up their mind.
Comments
I find i seek out an "X Factor" Artist because of the show they've come from, but mainly to see if the music is as bad as so many people seem to automatically assume it is. Some of it is decent, some isn't.
But then I don't tend to pigeonhole music into genres or styles like that anyway - i just listen to music, good or bad.
I only tend to dismiss the Winners Single as it's usually a bit bland and cheesy for me. Saying that I was really surprised by Impossible, I think because it wasn't an obvious choice, so I hope this continues this year.
Agreed! As much as people go on about "acts gaining overnight success, when other acts have been slogging it out for years etc etc", I don't see any reason why folk can't enter X Factor.
They know what they're getting into. With X Factor you get instant success for a limited period, but risk your credibility and ending up dropped within a year.
You can also go the more "authentic" route and do gigs around the country and build yourself up, which may lead to long term success and credibility or you may get no where.
(I put authentic in quote marks, not because I have anything against someone making their own way in the industry but because I know some music is viewed to be "better" depending on whether the artist has written the lyrics, music or plays their own instruments etc)
For me it's easy - I don't need one! As long as I can enjoy the music or melody of my favourite singer's songs, enjoy their music videos and live performances I'm happy.
Lyrics aren't one of the reasons I will listen to an artist - it's what their music sounds like, regardless of whether they composed it themselves or can't even read a note of music.
I think there is a bit deal about credibility in the music industry (which doesn't seem as common in other industries e.g. acting) but sometimes I wonder how important it is to write all your own stuff? After all there are a lot of talented songwriters out there who can't hold a note, so they obviously have to give their songs to someone else to sing, otherwise we would miss out on a lot of amazing tracks.
Also, my favourite singer writes all her own lyrics (and I have come to appreciate some lyrics more in recent years although it's not something I "listen" out for)and has even composed the melody of a few of her songs (although not arranged it) but due to her style of music and limits when it comes to her vocals, would not be considered credible I don't think.
On another X Factor note, I do wish the judges would stop going on about "emotionally connecting to the song". I don't care whether the believe in the lyrics or not OK, just go up on the stage and look like you're having fun and entertain me. If you're not really "connected" to this heart wrenching story of a broken heart, I honestly don't care!
I'm not against manufactured pop and if I like a song it doesn't really matter who it's by or whether they wrote it, played their own instruments, used autotune etc. I generally like girl groups but have had a hard time warming to Little Mix - I think the problem is they're OK but no better than average, and no better than the girl groups that have been dropped from their record labels like Girls Can't Catch or Parade, but have ended up more successful because of the Cowell money making machine.
I don't think it is any secret anymore that Syco very much like the 'marketable' acts. They love 1D & Little Mix because of all the money making potential they have on their side through merchandise and clothing lines etc. etc. Little Mix seem to be fighting for more and more creative control and got their own way largely with their most recent album and have ditched a lot of the original branding and imagery from the first album, how this effects their relationship with Syco long term remains to be seen.
A lot of people are getting shot down on the X Factor forums for saying that Sam Bailey this year will struggle for success after the show. Unfortunately despite having a cracking voice I very much doubt Syco will that interested beyond the initial cash in, which will most likely be a cover album. She's just not marketable.
thats abit narrow minded, do you only like rock?
we certainly watch as light entertainment, to which its perfect for saturday night. we have never voted for anyone either.
I love classical but X factor don't give a stuff about that either.
I couldn't name one Voice contestant until I heard one by accident the other day. Max Milner, sounds a bit like Ed Sheeran, well he's written a couple of really nice songs, and I heard him played on the radio because he had a show in Manchester that night. He doesn't seem to have had any hits yet though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8a7v9fuORw
The first one is quite good, the fourth one is lovely, a bit amateurish starting the video in his vest though, dear me.
You seem to see music as entertainment and a pass time. There's absolutely nothing at all wrong with that and you are probably in the majority. For some though music has to emotionally connect with you to mean something or seem worthwhile. It goes deeper than entertainment. People create their own meaning to every lyric or create their own imagery to a certain sound. It effects them on such a personal level that it changes them as people. It has the power to make people see things in a different light.
The emotional, psychological and maybe even spiritual aspects of what music gives us is hard to define and is different to everyone. It has little to do with what seems credible and more to do with how you interpret something. For instance I can't take the cover song releases from X Factor artists seriously as they have had no say in it. It isn't something I can connect to or believe in as it's not been produced with any meaning but to make money. It may well be entertaining for many and may mean something to someone but for me it's something that's totally without genuine emotion.
If it genuinely moves you then who am I to deny you that pleasure? Music is something that inspires creativity in every aspect of my life and I just can't but into something that is clearly made to make money alone.
whilst i agree with you about what music can/should mean, i also think that theres a place for a brain dead ditty too. for instance i love this ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkhVK8bjLz4
a simply, catchy, upbeat, bit of nonsense that one can apply their own 'ownership' to.
There have been some reasonable singers to come out of it like Leona, Alexandra and Rydian to name a few.
But there has also been some unbelievably dire, talentless garbage like Leon and 1D who are so bad that it's hard not to be dismissive of the whole.
Yeah, that's pretty true!
For me lyrics just aren't top of my list. I get enjoyment from a well put together album booklet or cover art, or seeing which instruments feature on songs (maybe there's one I like, e.g. the harp feature or an unusual one in there), visually appealing videos, which composer or arranger the singer has worked with (quite sad but I do enjoy reading the credits of an album, and despite lyrics not being my main draw, it does bug me when they are crammed into like 2 pages instead of laid out nicely through the album booklet!)
I might not always care or relate to the lyrics themselves but a lot of albums have nostalgic value for me - they remind me of good times or what I was doing at a certain point in time.
(I also listen to some foreign music, and have found some lyrics I appreciate through translations but a lot of time I have no idea what they're singing about or only a vague idea. I also enjoy some videogame music too and there's generally no vocals so no lyrics there, again a lot of nostalgic value and some of it I just genuinely like. )
Can't speak for GaGa as I've never really looked into it, but Katy Perry's success didn't happen overnight. She was signed and dropped a few times before actually having any success.
I don't agree that a voice alone can make a song your own. Maybe it shows your range as a singer but that doesn't mean you make it your song in any way for me
I have my preferences of genre but I'd never dismiss a song just because it was of a genre I wouldn't normally listen too.
in fairness, gneiss said tha a "good singer will always bring something of their own", that suggests to me that they can get into the emotion of a track, connect with it, and interpret it through singing.
I judge music on how good it is. I don't watch XF to discover new music, I watch it because it's a great TV show to discuss and dissect, but the output of artists after the show is pretty insignificant to me. If it's good, that's a happy coincidence.
If an artist is good enough they will sell records and have longevity (regardless how they were found). These said artists don't last (not many of them anyway) for a simple reason, they are not very good. All these people that vote for the winners, why do they stop buying the records?
Best post of the thread.
I totally agree. The blandest records are often the ones with a pitch perfect vocal. My favorite types of cover songs are those that take the original to such a different place that it becomes almost a new song in it's own right. Obvious examples are Hurt by Johnny Cash and Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley. The fact that the X Factor winners actually sang versions truer to the covers than the originals of these two songs is proof to me how you can make a cover song your own. In Buckleys case at least, I'd say his version is seen as the definitive version and not the original Leonard Cohen one. That's why I am not doubting someone can cover a song and bring something really special to them
You will probably find that the people posting in this thread saying they give this music a chance are the people who listen to this type of music anyway.
People who listen to other types of music because this is what they prefer are not going to listen. This does not make them worse than anyone else or music snobs, it just means they know what they do and do not like and don't need the same old crap thrust down their throats all the time to make up their mind.