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Israel joining the EU
blue_cobalt
Posts: 6,602 Forum Member
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Do you think Israel would agree to creating an independent Palestinian state If Israel was offered EU membership as a prize for doing so? If anything, Israel is more European(ised) than Turkey.
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And why should there be any incentives to Tel Aviv in the first place (re. recognition of Palestine) ? - isn't it the Palestinians right to be recognised ?
That is a very interesting idea, blue_cobalt. Not only would I offer them EU membership but I'd go further and offer them NATO membership too to offer them a mutual security guarantee in addition to economic partnership.
However, in return for that, I would expect concesssions along the lines of a fully viable Palestinian state (not divided up into a lot of phony bantustans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan), with the Palestinian capital comprising the Palestinian areas of East Jerusalem and the holy Dome of the Rock mosque and with the joint boundaries of Israel and Palestine to be determined by mutual consent and compromise and not by Israeli imposition.
Those are two rather juicy carrots to offer and I'm surprised that they haven't been used before to encourage the Israeli side to compromise. After all, their prime concern is security and they would now be backed by the USA, Canada, France, the UK and so on in the event of external attack.
The major flaw in your idea is that Israel does not want to compromise.
At least blue_cobalt, to his great credit, is trying to suggest something constructive here to break the current impasse. This is in complete and total contrast to your own threads in this forum which, so far, promote division, discord and hatred.
If these moves give the Palestinians the independent state that they fully deserve then these options are worth considering. Anyway, if you care to look at an atlas you'll find that the greater part of Turkey is in Asia Minor and Turkey is both a NATO member and an EU candidate state.
Furthermore, if states like Georgia and Armenia are both potential EU and NATO candidate states, I don't see why Israel cannot be either.
Both sides in this dispute need to make deep compromises in order for a deal to be made and implemented. These EU and NATO options have not been on the table before and they are therefore worth trying if they help the Israeli side to compromise.
The situation in (Occupied) Palestine is similar to that of someone taking something of yours illegally, then you trying to get back what is yours via incentives.
Can you not see how wrong that is ?
I am not for one moment taken in by your devious and spurious diversion attempts.
Both sides in this dispute have to make compromises so that two functioning and viable states exist on the land west of the River Jordan.
I want to see a fully viable Palestinian state with its capital as East Jerusalem but what l refuse to do is show mindless and profoundly ignorant bias and hatred towards the other side in this dispute. At some stage in your evolution you might care to consider following that example.
lf constructive suggestions from the likes of blue_cobalt and others could help move forward the peace process to get to that two-state solution then they are worth considering. At least he is trying to come up with new ideas that could help move thing on instead of just a continual succession of bitchy one-sided rants.
So they can move to Britain, Germany and France freely.
I'm sorry TU, but we have to look at the core issues here; there's no point pussy-footying around.
The longer we do that, the more complicated the situation will get (thanks to Israel's land-grab policy via their illegal settlements).
...and thus you use your own views to reinforce your own biases and prejudices and I am not impressed.
Both Northern Ireland and South Africa have shown that apparently Intractable issues can be ultimately be solved even though it takes a lot of time and effort. In the meantime, demonisation and the promotion of the hatred of one side or the other serves no constructive purpose.
From my own background, I am well aware that cooperation between Palestinian and Israeli scientists, educators and physicians can succeed and that ultimately needs to be replicated at the political level on both sides.
Hatred of, and bigotry towards, one side will not solve the issues as North Ireland aptly demonstrated but they were able to ultimately set aside differences there to reach the current settlement. Perhaps you might care to follow their example?
However, even if the Palestinian question were fully resolved, any such resolution would - of necessity - have to include Israel and Palestine in a customs union and free-trade area, otherwise the Palestinian Territories will not be economically viable.
That means Israel and Palestine would need to accede the Union together - Israel cannot be in the Common Market AND have an open border with the PT unless Palestine is also part of the Common Market - and even in a hypothetical scenario where the Israel-Palestine situation is sustainably resolved, Gaza and the West Bank will not be politically, socially or economically ready to join the EU for many decades. It took nearly 20 years for Romania and Bulgaria to be considered ready for accession and even then many believe they were not. Palestine is many times poorer and more chaotic even than the Balkans were in the early 90s.
THe only serious carrot on stick so to speak will be an offer which will allow the Jews to build a new temple on TempleMount next to the dome of the rock, or just below it. I could imagine that they would even give up whole of Jerusalem for this to happen
You also have the option to apply the same admonishments to Israel's enemies when necessary.
Not that you'll ever go against type and actually exercise that right.
...which is your pathetic excuse to continue the relentless series of vitriolic one-sided rants to which we have become accustomed in this forum. I have been quite critical of both sides in this matter http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=46858497&postcount=18 and I stand by those comments.
Ultimately, and it will take time, I have no doubt that the Palestinian and Israeli leaderships will reach some mutually acceptable accord and that will leave you, like the dissident republicans in Northern lreland, as a tiny and insignificant minority trying to wreck things from the sidelines.
The good news for the people of both Palestine and Israel is that you, like the dissident republicans, will all ultimately fail in your respective hate-filled agendas.
The funny thing about whenever I see these threads is that it is blindingly clear how ignorant most are to the situation. It's also obvious most have probably never spoken to a Palestinian before in their lives.
At the end of the day, it simply comes down to right and wrong. Is it right to take something that does not belong to you? Is it wrong to take something that did belong to you back? All of these technicalities people try to use to excuse Israel's action are simply desperate attempts to grasp at imaginary straws. I have faith that justice will prevail, whether it is in the next year, or the next 200 years. The world will not be the same place in a century, too many things are reaching their boiling points.
I agree that offering Israel membership of both the EU and NATO is a fantastic incentive, although the situation in Palestine is somewhat comparable to that in Northern Cyprus in which the offer of EU membership hasn't dissuaded Turkey from ceasing their occupation of Cyprus.
It is a corrupt organisation with a financial albatross around the neck of its members, Israel is one of the world leaders in computing, technology and sciences I am sure it would not want to be burdened with EU membership, Britain should get out of the EU no way should Israel join it for their own sakes
And that according to you is because Israel claims to be a democracy. At the same time though another country that claims to be a democracy is discussed on here and you brush away criticisms with "their country, their rules".
So since your reasoning for your stance on Israel is that they should be criticized due to their claims of being a democracy why didn't you criticize the other country that claimed to be a democracy rather than say "their country, their rules"?
If your reasoning is down to claims of democracy you'd expect to see criticism of both or of neither. There must therefore be another reason which you did not mention. What is it?
Yes, I've asked you this before but you haven't answered so I figure I will keep on asking.