No, I'm obviously not making myself clear - I think the radio show tried their luck, ( not saying they should have ) because it was morning sickness, I don't think they would have if it had been anything more serious.
Dear god pranks have happened since time began, radio pranks have been part and parcel of Real Radio Scotland's breakfast show for over a decade, it was not the actions of the prank that caused the woman to end her life, there is more to this than we are being told.
Perhaps the definition of 'prank' needs to be explored.
It seems to me it's a mildly cruel joke played on someone who is a) seen as deserving the malice to some extent and b) judged to be tough enough to handle the humiliation.
By this definition, a prank could be played on many of the media tsars who infest our screens and newspapers. However, I don't think it applies to a nurse you've never met, a hospital concerned with the health of its patients, or a young woman in a distressed state whose only crime is to have married into a well-known family.
Well there is more to this than we are being told, i'm not buying the suicide because of the prank call, the woman was part of a team who handled the initial call but she is the only one to sadly taker her life.
Truth be told if it was because of the bollocking her and the others received and subsequent publicity then why did the hospital see fit to allow any staff members to be named? and dare i say it if the royal spin machine had keep quiet in the first place then there would have been no prank.
Seriously why did they feel the need to inform us?
You're not buying it is fine, but you can't state that as fact if you don't have proof behind it.
I didn't know the hospital had named them, although I hadn't paid the story much attention until I heard this today. I knew it had happened but like most I didn't see it being a massive deal, obviously it directly affect my life.
How could it have been kept quite when it was broadcast on the radio and was all over the internet in seconds? Or do you mean if the names had been kept quiet?
I'm not sure the media wouldn't have somehow found out anyway, it only takes one person to let the details slip and the whole thing would have been blown out of proportion anyway.
That's a strange comment.
No wouldn't try to be funny over something so tragic.
Don't understand the spa comment either but there was confidentiality breach that shouldn't have happened.
It's very sad.
Your post gave the impression that it was OK to play a hoax on hospital staff, precipitated by a famous person having morning sickness, and that it was OK to play the hoax because it wasn't directed at a hospital full of ill people, only at Kate.
A hospital exists for ill people to go and get better in peace. Full stop. It is also a place where said ill people may die in. It doesn't exist for idiot morons to entertain an audience and have a laugh over. That's my point.
As for the spa comment, if you can't see the intended ironic sarcasm to point how silly your post sounded, then I can't be bothered to explain. Sorry.
Wynne Evans
Maybe because they didn't believe they could keep the story out of the media because someone would talk.
i'm not takings sides but if the DJ's actions played a part in the nurses death the we must also look at the hospital, its protocols for handling callers and information and we must also find out if there was pressure from the palace that may have contributed to the suicide.
Either way no one be it the hospital, palace or the DJ's are coming out of this with reputations intact.
You're not buying it is fine, but you can't state that as fact if you don't have proof behind it.
I didn't know the hospital had named them, although I hadn't paid the story much attention until I heard this today. I knew it had happened but like most I didn't see it being a massive deal, obviously it directly affect my life.
How could it have been kept quite when it was broadcast on the radio and was all over the internet in seconds? Or do you mean if the names had been kept quiet? I'm not sure the media wouldn't have somehow found out anyway, it only takes one person to let the details slip and the whole thing would have been blown out of proportion anyway.
Years back when an ex senior MP's family member was hospitalised because of an incident the media were fully aware but collectively chose not to run the story, hence why i'm certain the media would have shown restraint especially in light of the Levinson debacle,
i'm not takings sides but if the DJ's actions played a part in the nurses death the we must also look at the hospital, its protocols for handling callers and information and we must also find out if there was pressure from the palace that may have contributed to the suicide.
Either way no one be it the hospital, palace or the DJ's are coming out of this with reputations intact.
i'm not takings sides but if the DJ's actions played a part in the nurses death the we must also look at the hospital, its protocols for handling callers and information and we must also find out if there was pressure from the palace that may have contributed to the suicide.
Either way no one be it the hospital, palace or the DJ's are coming out of this with reputations intact.
I agree... To just blame the DJs for the poor lady committing suicide is unfair. We don't know the full facts yet and may never know them. From my own experience ..I phoned fom Greece to ask how my mum was doing after an emergency op and was told they couldn't give me any information until they had verified I was who I claimed (Which I felt was acceptable as I could of been anyone) and was told to phone back later. Surely all hospitals must have a confidentiality rule? When I worked for Social Services I had to sign a contract stating I would always maintain a persons confidentiality at all times.
Years back when an ex senior MP's family member was hospitalised because of an incident the media were fully aware but collectively chose not to run the story, hence why i'm certain the media would have shown restraint especially in light of the Levinson debacle,
There is a media hysteria surrounding Kate and William though look at the pictures of her they chose to publish despite the leveston enquiry. Generating headlines surrounding them is worth more in newspaper sales than respecting their privacy. I don't think anything stops the media these days, years back there was more respect towards senior figures.
Dear god pranks have happened since time began, radio pranks have been part and parcel of Real Radio Scotland's breakfast show for over a decade, it was not the actions of the prank that caused the woman to end her life, there is more to this than we are being told.
Steve Penk phoning a hardware shop pretending to be Shaggy or a car dealership as Jim Bowen is one thing. Childish yes, but nobody is hurt by it, the amusement is in the caller, the person answering is academic and barely mutters a word.
Add to that, they then give their consent for the broadcast.
That is a million miles from calling a hospital where the emphasis is on the receptionist and their replies, where it is blindingly obvious you will be costing somebody their job, given who the patient is, propelling them to worldwide notoriety and making humour from an illness and a hospital.
There isn't a single comparison with "traditional pranks" other than maybe being 20 years past their sell-by date and behavior grown adults should've left behind at school.
Years back when an ex senior MP's family member was hospitalised because of an incident the media were fully aware but collectively chose not to run the story, hence why i'm certain the media would have shown restraint especially in light of the Levinson debacle,
If this is the same incident I am thinking of the press didn't collectively decide not to print... the politician got a super injunction... it is one of the few times I have wholeheartedly agreed with the use of super injunctions.
Steve Penk phoning a hardware shop pretending to be Shaggy or a car dealership as Jim Bowen is one thing. Childish yes, but nobody is hurt by it, the amusement is in the caller, the person answering is academic and barely mutters a word.
Add to that, they then give their consent for the broadcast.
That is a million miles from calling a hospital where the emphasis is on the receptionist and their replies, where it is blindingly obvious you will be costing somebody their job, given who the patient is, propelling them to worldwide notoriety and making humour from an illness and a hospital.
There isn't a single comparison with "traditional pranks" other than maybe being 20 years past their sell-by date and behavior grown adults should've left behind at school.
not if that person does their job correctly and says no information will be given over the telephobe
But you are still setting up the potential to cost someone their job.
You aren't doing that phoning up an advert in the paper for a Moped and pretending to think it's a mop-head.
Yes, they simply set up the situation. Any action that caused her to lose her job from that point would have been entirely her fault and thus deserved.
If someone is not supposed to give out information then they don't give it out. You can't blame anyone if they simply ask for that information and happen to receive it.
This was not a harmless prank that has spiralled out of control. It was a mean-spirited trick in the first place to call a hospital and try and dupe medical staff for a laugh. That's the reason really that the prank is indefensible, not what happened afterwards, which could not have been foreseen. However the seriousness of the trick played may have been the reason why the consequences have been so serious; as someone said above joking about the Queen calling a tiara shop might not prompt a suicide but being the catalyst for a nurse thinking her career is ruined might.
I totally agree the DJs are not responsible for the death but some people are sensitive and trusting. They take personal failures or attacks very hard. Our response in the modern world seems to be: oh well they should have been tougher, shouldn't have fallen for the trick, etc. That might be true but without a mean-spirited act in the first place someone wouldn't have been put in that position.
I guess I'm a terrible person because I'm just not outraged at all. We've had the Royals and the hospital coming falling over themselves to point out that they "supported" her and didn't complain or discipline her. So what if they had? Both individuals failed in their jobs and complaints or disciplinary action would have been quite appropriate. Because she has killed herself now everyone is jumping under tables to dodge the shrapnel because the media are on a witchhunt.
The prank was ridiculous - it was hardly a sophisticated effort to dupe the hospital staff and I doubt they ever expected to get as far as they did. More likely just wind up some nurses by pretending to be the Queen and Charles with dodgy accents and dogs barking. The fact that they were bothering a hospital and planning to waste their time is in poor taste. The fact that this woman has killed herself doesn't make the joke any better or worse.
Helbore
It wasn't emotional blackmail ..I was asking those who are abusing these two to be careful with their abuse as we have already seen a life lost over a silly prank.
It wasn't a silly prank.It was an attempt to gain info.
As for the abuse those two are getting ? That nurse is dead and SHE is still being verbally abused across forums by people speculating on her mental health. Disgusting,blaming the victim .The poor woman is dead and two children are motherless.....THAT is where my sympathy goes. If the DJs can't handle it then at least they will have been victims of their own stupidity & greed for attention & notoriety. The nurse didn't have that option. She was 100% a victim of THEM.
I guess I'm a terrible person because I'm just not outraged at all. We've had the Royals and the hospital coming falling over themselves to point out that they "supported" her and didn't complain or discipline her. So what if they had? Both individuals failed in their jobs and complaints or disciplinary action would have been quite appropriate. Because she has killed herself now everyone is jumping under tables to dodge the shrapnel because the media are on a witchhunt.
The prank was ridiculous - it was hardly a sophisticated effort to dupe the hospital staff and I doubt they ever expected to get as far as they did. More likely just wind up some nurses by pretending to be the Queen and Charles with dodgy accents and dogs barking. The fact that they were bothering a hospital and planning to waste their time is in poor taste. The fact that this woman has killed herself doesn't make the joke any better or worse.
Agreed, I can't imagine either one releasing a statement to say they had launched an internal review and had spoken to the nurses in question & were deciding whether disciplinary action would be taken. It was certainly never the intention for anyone to lose their job and definitely not their life.....call me cynical but I am:rolleyes:
This is a very tragic outcome. Obviously any feelings of the two DJs are minor compared to the hurt and grief of Jacintha Saldanha's family, but all the same, I think they may well be devastated by this. And I do feel some sympathy for them; I'm sure they never imagined such an outcome for a second.
I think it's right that they be pulled from the air (as has already been announced). Any entertainment show that causes a death, however inadvertently, can't really continue, as we saw here with The Late Late Breakfast Show. It's unlikely they'll remain with the station or be emloyed in such roles again. That, I think, is fair enough.
Some of the vitriol in twitter is crossing the line into witchhunt territory though. People demanding they be charged with manslaughter, or even murder (someone even dragged up the idea of charging them with treason). That's absurd.
I do wonder how many of the people lambasting them would have been so exercised if Ms Saldanha hadn't killed herself. Because the DJs actions would have been exactly the same morally if she hadn't - no better, no worse.
Here in Oz until this morning most people thought it was a dumb prank, but hardly the worst thing that particular radio station had done. Hooking a 14 year old up to a lie detector test and asking if she had ever had sex was so much worse.
This nurse was obviously already fragile and in these times of austerity and job cuts it's not hard to imagin the pressure she could have been under. No the DJs didn't mean any harm but its not like the station hasn't been in trouble for pushing the envelope. Advertisers have pulled out of shows before because of on air stuff, another shock Jock has been suspended at least two times for unacceptable behaviour - google Kyle Sandilands. This is a culture and management problem.
This is a very tragic outcome. Obviously any feelings of the two DJs are minor compared to the hurt and grief of Jacintha Saldanha's family, but all the same, I think they may well be devastated by this. And I do feel some sympathy for them; I'm sure they never imagined such an outcome for a second.
I think it's right that they be pulled from the air (as has already been announced). Any entertainment show that causes a death, however inadvertently, can't really continue, as we saw here with The Late Late Breakfast Show. It's unlikely they'll remain with the station or be emloyed in such roles again. That, I think, is fair enough.
Some of the vitriol in twitter is crossing the line into witchhunt territory though. People demanding they be charged with manslaughter, or even murder (someone even dragged up the idea of charging them with treason). That's absurd.
I do wonder how many of the people lambasting them would have been so exercised if Ms Saldanha hadn't killed herself. Because the DJs actions would have been exactly the same morally if she hadn't - no better, no worse.
I bet these people on Twitter have all played a prank on someone in their lives, the difference is that nobody has died after the prank. I have come to the conclusion that about 75% of people on Twitter are idiots and don't have a clue about the real world.
I think it is unfair that the DJ's are fully being blamed here. I can't understand why someone would take their own life after a prank on them. I won't lie when i first heard about the prank i laughed, probably the majority of people that heard about this also laughed. I'm obviously not laughing now though because someone has decided to take their life. But are the DJ's the only one's to blame here ? in my opinion no, i truly believe that many things in this persons life has got on top of her before this one moment. Obviously i can't know this, but i think it's a more likely an explanation than saying it was because of a silly prank. You would have to be the most mentally weak person in the world to take your life because someone pulled a prank like this on you.
Obviously it's very sad but i won't be blaming this on 2 DJ's who never set out to hurt anyone.
I bet these people on Twitter have all played a prank on someone in their lives, the difference is that nobody has died after the prank. I have come to the conclusion that about 75% of people on Twitter are idiots and don't have a clue about the real world.
I think it is unfair that the DJ's are fully being blamed here. I can't understand why someone would take their own life after a prank on them.
Obviously it's very sad but i won't be blaming this on 2 DJ's who never set out to hurt anyone.
I totally agree with this - yes they played a silly prank on their radio show. But a lot of shows do that type of stuff.
Were they intending to be malicious or cause the staff/nurses pain or harm - no. I don't even really think that entered their thoughts at the time at all.
I find it hard to believe any one that was 100% happy/content would do this to themselves just because they took this call and simply put it through to the nurse on the ward. Clearly there is more here than meets the eye - but the DJs did not cause the death of this person.
Her family are the people who we should feel sorry for.
Agree completely that two wrongs don't make a right and the two of them are probably going through hell at the moment.
They did set themselves up for a lot of this though by positively gloating for the last few days and seemingly relishing the worldwide publicity....they did appear way too pleased with themselves
Yeah, the DJ's do seem to be awful, insensitive people, no doubt about that. I do think they just might be going to a very personal hell right now, though, and are learning a very hash lesson as well. I don't feel bad for them in a sense, but maybe it's time to let them go through their own actions without a public "Let's hunt them down" campaign, before something drastic happens again.
Comments
My thoughts exactly.
Perhaps the definition of 'prank' needs to be explored.
It seems to me it's a mildly cruel joke played on someone who is a) seen as deserving the malice to some extent and b) judged to be tough enough to handle the humiliation.
By this definition, a prank could be played on many of the media tsars who infest our screens and newspapers. However, I don't think it applies to a nurse you've never met, a hospital concerned with the health of its patients, or a young woman in a distressed state whose only crime is to have married into a well-known family.
Maybe because they didn't believe they could keep the story out of the media because someone would talk.
You're not buying it is fine, but you can't state that as fact if you don't have proof behind it.
I didn't know the hospital had named them, although I hadn't paid the story much attention until I heard this today. I knew it had happened but like most I didn't see it being a massive deal, obviously it directly affect my life.
How could it have been kept quite when it was broadcast on the radio and was all over the internet in seconds? Or do you mean if the names had been kept quiet?
I'm not sure the media wouldn't have somehow found out anyway, it only takes one person to let the details slip and the whole thing would have been blown out of proportion anyway.
Your post gave the impression that it was OK to play a hoax on hospital staff, precipitated by a famous person having morning sickness, and that it was OK to play the hoax because it wasn't directed at a hospital full of ill people, only at Kate.
A hospital exists for ill people to go and get better in peace. Full stop. It is also a place where said ill people may die in. It doesn't exist for idiot morons to entertain an audience and have a laugh over. That's my point.
As for the spa comment, if you can't see the intended ironic sarcasm to point how silly your post sounded, then I can't be bothered to explain. Sorry.
i'm not takings sides but if the DJ's actions played a part in the nurses death the we must also look at the hospital, its protocols for handling callers and information and we must also find out if there was pressure from the palace that may have contributed to the suicide.
Either way no one be it the hospital, palace or the DJ's are coming out of this with reputations intact.
Years back when an ex senior MP's family member was hospitalised because of an incident the media were fully aware but collectively chose not to run the story, hence why i'm certain the media would have shown restraint especially in light of the Levinson debacle,
I agree. Apparently she transferred the call through to Kate's ward, or so it says online, so she didn't actually give out any info?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244608/Jacintha-Saldanha-Familys-grief-suicide-nurse-transferred-DJs-hoax-Kate-Middleton-hospital-call.html
I agree... To just blame the DJs for the poor lady committing suicide is unfair. We don't know the full facts yet and may never know them. From my own experience ..I phoned fom Greece to ask how my mum was doing after an emergency op and was told they couldn't give me any information until they had verified I was who I claimed (Which I felt was acceptable as I could of been anyone) and was told to phone back later. Surely all hospitals must have a confidentiality rule? When I worked for Social Services I had to sign a contract stating I would always maintain a persons confidentiality at all times.
There is a media hysteria surrounding Kate and William though look at the pictures of her they chose to publish despite the leveston enquiry. Generating headlines surrounding them is worth more in newspaper sales than respecting their privacy. I don't think anything stops the media these days, years back there was more respect towards senior figures.
Steve Penk phoning a hardware shop pretending to be Shaggy or a car dealership as Jim Bowen is one thing. Childish yes, but nobody is hurt by it, the amusement is in the caller, the person answering is academic and barely mutters a word.
Add to that, they then give their consent for the broadcast.
That is a million miles from calling a hospital where the emphasis is on the receptionist and their replies, where it is blindingly obvious you will be costing somebody their job, given who the patient is, propelling them to worldwide notoriety and making humour from an illness and a hospital.
There isn't a single comparison with "traditional pranks" other than maybe being 20 years past their sell-by date and behavior grown adults should've left behind at school.
If this is the same incident I am thinking of the press didn't collectively decide not to print... the politician got a super injunction... it is one of the few times I have wholeheartedly agreed with the use of super injunctions.
not if that person does their job correctly and says no information will be given over the telephobe
But you are still setting up the potential to cost someone their job.
You aren't doing that phoning up an advert in the paper for a Moped and pretending to think it's a mop-head.
One of the main problems with it is they were ringing up a hospital enquiring about a sick patient.....hardly a laughing matter.
That's a world away from ringing a shop that sells tiaras and saying you're the Queen and you want to buy one.
Yes, they simply set up the situation. Any action that caused her to lose her job from that point would have been entirely her fault and thus deserved.
If someone is not supposed to give out information then they don't give it out. You can't blame anyone if they simply ask for that information and happen to receive it.
I totally agree the DJs are not responsible for the death but some people are sensitive and trusting. They take personal failures or attacks very hard. Our response in the modern world seems to be: oh well they should have been tougher, shouldn't have fallen for the trick, etc. That might be true but without a mean-spirited act in the first place someone wouldn't have been put in that position.
The prank was ridiculous - it was hardly a sophisticated effort to dupe the hospital staff and I doubt they ever expected to get as far as they did. More likely just wind up some nurses by pretending to be the Queen and Charles with dodgy accents and dogs barking. The fact that they were bothering a hospital and planning to waste their time is in poor taste. The fact that this woman has killed herself doesn't make the joke any better or worse.
As for the abuse those two are getting ? That nurse is dead and SHE is still being verbally abused across forums by people speculating on her mental health. Disgusting,blaming the victim .The poor woman is dead and two children are motherless.....THAT is where my sympathy goes. If the DJs can't handle it then at least they will have been victims of their own stupidity & greed for attention & notoriety. The nurse didn't have that option. She was 100% a victim of THEM.
Agreed, I can't imagine either one releasing a statement to say they had launched an internal review and had spoken to the nurses in question & were deciding whether disciplinary action would be taken. It was certainly never the intention for anyone to lose their job and definitely not their life.....call me cynical but I am:rolleyes:
I think it's right that they be pulled from the air (as has already been announced). Any entertainment show that causes a death, however inadvertently, can't really continue, as we saw here with The Late Late Breakfast Show. It's unlikely they'll remain with the station or be emloyed in such roles again. That, I think, is fair enough.
Some of the vitriol in twitter is crossing the line into witchhunt territory though. People demanding they be charged with manslaughter, or even murder (someone even dragged up the idea of charging them with treason). That's absurd.
I do wonder how many of the people lambasting them would have been so exercised if Ms Saldanha hadn't killed herself. Because the DJs actions would have been exactly the same morally if she hadn't - no better, no worse.
This nurse was obviously already fragile and in these times of austerity and job cuts it's not hard to imagin the pressure she could have been under. No the DJs didn't mean any harm but its not like the station hasn't been in trouble for pushing the envelope. Advertisers have pulled out of shows before because of on air stuff, another shock Jock has been suspended at least two times for unacceptable behaviour - google Kyle Sandilands. This is a culture and management problem.
I bet these people on Twitter have all played a prank on someone in their lives, the difference is that nobody has died after the prank. I have come to the conclusion that about 75% of people on Twitter are idiots and don't have a clue about the real world.
I think it is unfair that the DJ's are fully being blamed here. I can't understand why someone would take their own life after a prank on them. I won't lie when i first heard about the prank i laughed, probably the majority of people that heard about this also laughed. I'm obviously not laughing now though because someone has decided to take their life. But are the DJ's the only one's to blame here ? in my opinion no, i truly believe that many things in this persons life has got on top of her before this one moment. Obviously i can't know this, but i think it's a more likely an explanation than saying it was because of a silly prank. You would have to be the most mentally weak person in the world to take your life because someone pulled a prank like this on you.
Obviously it's very sad but i won't be blaming this on 2 DJ's who never set out to hurt anyone.
I totally agree with this - yes they played a silly prank on their radio show. But a lot of shows do that type of stuff.
Were they intending to be malicious or cause the staff/nurses pain or harm - no. I don't even really think that entered their thoughts at the time at all.
I find it hard to believe any one that was 100% happy/content would do this to themselves just because they took this call and simply put it through to the nurse on the ward. Clearly there is more here than meets the eye - but the DJs did not cause the death of this person.
Her family are the people who we should feel sorry for.
Yeah, the DJ's do seem to be awful, insensitive people, no doubt about that. I do think they just might be going to a very personal hell right now, though, and are learning a very hash lesson as well. I don't feel bad for them in a sense, but maybe it's time to let them go through their own actions without a public "Let's hunt them down" campaign, before something drastic happens again.