Has any hatred towards pensioners been shown? All I've seen is the rational suggestion to distribute benefits based on need and not purely on age.
The only hatred I've seen in this thread is towards young people with the very ignorant and laughable rhetoric that "young people don't know the meaning of hard work" and "young people can't be bothered to get out of bed to work".
It's not hatred at all. Many recognise they are part of the problem and do care about their kids and grandkids future.
Others are I have paid taxes for x years and now I want it all. Well your kids will too and we won't be able to afford a fraction of the benefits pensioners get now when they retire after having spent their lives paying off your debt.
Humility is all that is asked for and recognising the mess the young today have been left.
It's not hatred at all. Many recognise they are part of the problem and do care about their kids and grandkids future.
Others are I have paid taxes for x years and now I want it all. Well your kids will too and we won't be able to afford a fraction of the benefits pensioners get now when they retire after having spent their lives paying off your debt.
Humility is all that is asked for and recognising the mess the young today have been left.
To be honest in real life the pensioners I've met show a lot of compassion and totally understand how hard the young have it these days. The attitude on here is very different, with people constantly telling me I'm selfish. Not sure why, maybe its to avoid the shame of the next two generations picking up the tab for their lifestyles.
I met a pensioner last year that wanted to pay for the bus but the driver wouldn't let him. Got into an argument with the driver as he was saying he could afford it but the driver just waved him on.
Really? You'll forgive me for not wanting to deprive pensioners of mobility just because the bus adds a few quid to the cost of your foreign holiday.
And it will still cost you 30 quid, just might not run as often with less demand.
This is what happens when you let private bus set the fares.
In London, the State sets all bus fares. All adult bus fares are £1.45 including those to Heathrow. Somewhat less than the £30 private bus operators choose charge.
That would be a shame, as I feel we should be encouraging people to use buses rather than cars. Though if pensioners have no intention of using the bus, they'd be unlikely to apply for a bus pass in any case.
If pensioners who have a car or sometimes more than one car don't apply for a bus pass why should pensioners who don't have a car have to give up their bus pass ?
Do you have any evidence to show that pensioners who have cars don't apply for a bus pass?
I ask because personally I don't see why they wouldn't apply for a bus pass, even if it's only in case the car breaks down, or maybe because it's cheaper than buying petrol.
It's not hatred at all. Many recognise they are part of the problem and do care about their kids and grandkids future.
Others are I have paid taxes for x years and now I want it all. Well your kids will too and we won't be able to afford a fraction of the benefits pensioners get now when they retire after having spent their lives paying off your debt.
Humility is all that is asked for and recognising the mess the young today have been left.
What debt tell me exactly what I owe that young people will be paying for
If pensioners who have a car or sometimes more than one car don't apply for a bus pass why should pensioners who don't have a car have to give up their bus pass ?
Well, they shouldn't, of course.
Do you have any evidence to show that pensioners who have cars don't apply for a bus pass?
No, of course not, and I never suggested that they don't. What I said was that if pensioners have no intention of using the bus, they'd be unlikely to apply for a bus pass.
No, of course not, and I never suggested that they don't. What I said was that if pensioners have no intention of using the bus, they'd be unlikely to apply for a bus pass.
I know what you said, my argument is that just because a pensioner has a car, then for the reasons I have given, it doesn't mean it's unlikely they would apply for a bus pass.
I know what you said, my argument is that just because a pensioner has a car, then for the reasons I have given, it doesn't mean it's unlikely they would apply for a bus pass.
The claim free travel by pensioners sustains bus routes as bus companies get paid by the state maybe flawed. As local authorities and bus companies claim the opposite. That free travel by pensioners is inadequately funded leading to local councils and bus companies being unable to sustain routes popular with pensioners. As there is not enough room for fare paying customers on popular bus routes, so more buses at more expense have to be run and the compensation by central government for the pensioners traveling is inadequate to cover the cost of their travel so either local authorities or bus companies have to absorb the cost or run services that do not meet demand or close routes. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/26/transport-over-60s http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570718/Boom-free-bus-passes-no-buses-Pensioner-perk-popular-councils-forced-axe-services-pay-it.html
The claim free travel by pensioners sustains bus routes as bus companies get paid by the state maybe flawed. As local authorities and bus companies claim the opposite. That free travel by pensioners is inadequately funded leading to local councils and bus companies being unable to sustain routes popular with pensioners. As there is not enough room for fare paying customers on popular bus routes, so more buses at more expense have to be run and the compensation by central government for the pensioners traveling is inadequate to cover the cost of their travel so either local authorities or bus companies have to absorb the cost or run services that do not meet demand or close routes. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/26/transport-over-60s http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570718/Boom-free-bus-passes-no-buses-Pensioner-perk-popular-councils-forced-axe-services-pay-it.html
Ah this scare story being put around by Keith Ludeman, chief exec of Go-Ahead buses.
The claim free travel by pensioners sustains bus routes as bus companies get paid by the state maybe flawed. As local authorities and bus companies claim the opposite. That free travel by pensioners is inadequately funded leading to local councils and bus companies being unable to sustain routes popular with pensioners. As there is not enough room for fare paying customers on popular bus routes, so more buses at more expense have to be run and the compensation by central government for the pensioners traveling is inadequate to cover the cost of their travel so either local authorities or bus companies have to absorb the cost or run services that do not meet demand or close routes. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/26/transport-over-60s http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570718/Boom-free-bus-passes-no-buses-Pensioner-perk-popular-councils-forced-axe-services-pay-it.html
So pensioners are blamed for shutting down bus routes in Worthing, not surprising.
In Wales the amount paid for pass users was 100%, then 73% of adult fares and is proposed to go down to the 40%s.
Anyone with a very basic understanding of economics can understand these passes used with private company's is unsustainable.
And you counter with a scare story put out by the council to try and shift blame on private companies?
No scare story.
Councils want to control buses fares, service patterns and routes again. Just like it's always been like in London. I agree. I want other parts of the UK to have cities running their buses just like London with London bus style flat fares, real time information, smart cards, on board announcements and useful web sites.
And looks like local authorities in Newcastle and West Yorkshire intend to provide their local populations with the quality of bus service which people in London currently enjoy.
If flat fares, real time information, on board announcements, daily prices caps, smart card ticketing and easy to use web sites are good enough for London, then they are good enough for Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol....
Just look at what the local authorties would like to do to help the travelling public in West Yorkshire: http://www.wymetro.com/qualitycontracts/ . They've borrowed these excellent ideas from London's already popular scheme. Popular ? Bus use up by 60% over the last 10 years in the capital.
What debt tell me exactly what I owe that young people will be paying for
The national debt of over £1.5 trillion that resulted from people voting to spend more than the country raised in taxes on services for them. Let's aline high house prices which are crucifying the young and from which pensioners benefit when they sell their homes at many times what they paid for them.
Councils want to control buses fares, service patterns and routes again. Just like it's always been like in London. I agree. I want other parts of the UK to have cities running their buses just like London with London bus style flat fares, real time information, smart cards, on board announcements and useful web sites.
And looks like local authorities in Newcastle and West Yorkshire intend to provide their local populations with the quality of bus service which people in London currently enjoy.
If flat fares, real time information, on board announcements, daily prices caps, smart card ticketing and easy to use web sites are good enough for London, then they are good enough for Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol....
Just look at what the local authorties would like to do to help the travelling public in West Yorkshire: http://www.wymetro.com/qualitycontracts/ . They've borrowed these excellent ideas from London's already popular scheme. Popular ? Bus use up by 60% over the last 10 years in the capital.
No disagreement with renationalisation of an essential service.
Buses should be affordable to everyone in society. We don't have that at the moment and have an unfair and unsustainable system.
Not everyone that goes to an airport is going on holiday abroad. 30 for me doubles the price of going to visit family on a domestic flight.
Yet all these pensioners that brag about 4 holidays a year and winter fuel allowance that they use as beer money get the 30 quid trip free.
That still doesn't explain why or how them paying for their passes will help you with the considerable luxury of being able to fly and see your family. Your previous suggestions that today's pensioners have had it better than today's youth are now looking even more spectacularly laughable; how many of them could afford to fly domestically to see family - they couldn't drive that easily because there were no motorways.
No disagreement with renationalization from me either. The private bus companies look to be heavily subsidized and where I live in Oxfordshire there have been too many problems with phantom buses, that only exist on the paper work to claim the money from the state.
That still doesn't explain why or how them paying for their passes will help you with the considerable luxury of being able to fly and see your family. Your previous suggestions that today's pensioners have had it better than today's youth are now looking even more spectacularly laughable; how many of them could afford to fly domestically to see family - they couldn't drive that easily because there were no motorways.
You don't understand why the public funds shouldn't be used to give pensioners a free lift to the airport for their abroad holidays?
The low frills airline revolution has also gone over your head?
We now live in a world where a private airline without any public money can offer a 200mile round trip at about the same price as a 10 mile trip to the airport from a bus service that receives public money.
Buses should be affordable to everyone in society. .
They already are in London. All adult London bus fares are £1.45. With the unemployed and those under 11 travelling for free. And adults never pay more than £4.20 in the day - regardless of the number of buses used.
Neither Labour nor the Conservative what London style bus operations extended to other UK cities.
That still doesn't explain why or how them paying for their passes will help you with the considerable luxury of being able to fly and see your family. Your previous suggestions that today's pensioners have had it better than today's youth are now looking even more spectacularly laughable; how many of them could afford to fly domestically to see family - they couldn't drive that easily because there were no motorways.
Most of the pensioners of today were young adults at a time of far lower unemployment and rapidly rising standards of living. The world then I would hope was optomistic things were good in comparision to how they had been and were getting better. Today we have higher unemployment especially youth unemployment and rising costs of living - falling standards of living. Some of the young adults of today seem less optomistic about their future and lot in life, they see a bleak future. Despite the fact that working hours and conditions are generally far better today and the general standard of living enjoyed today is generally far higher today. And I for one expect technolog to march on and the standard of living to improve over the decades to come.
Yes. Let them travel at child's fare, but free is unsustainable and joke when often, those having to stump up a full fare are the ones left standing. At least in my area, where I think the passes started in 2006, OAPs are using the bus a lot more than they did when they had to pay half fare. At least some must be using it for the sake of a day out just because it's free.
Alternatively, their pass could allocate them a certain number of free journeys per week/month/year and after that they have to pay full adult fares until the start of the next period.
I was on a bus the other week which was 15 minutes+ late. Almost every OAP that got on the bus moaned about it, no one else who was fare paying and probably trying to get to work on time, said a thing. I would just be grateful for whatever concession, to be honest! Some of them were borderline rude to the driver after he'd explained that he was delayed due to road works on the route. I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd thrown them off the bus.
Comments
It's not hatred at all. Many recognise they are part of the problem and do care about their kids and grandkids future.
Others are I have paid taxes for x years and now I want it all. Well your kids will too and we won't be able to afford a fraction of the benefits pensioners get now when they retire after having spent their lives paying off your debt.
Humility is all that is asked for and recognising the mess the young today have been left.
Details please.
Yes. As prevously discussed, the 1980s Conservative government was not stupid enough to privatise and deregulate London buses.
Any holder of a pensioner bus pass who resides anywhere in England can travel for free on the buses across England including London.
Read and understand. https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-elderly-person-bus-pass
As the taxpayer collects all bus fares in London, there is no additional cost to the taxpayer whenever someone travel on a London bus for free.
Really? You'll forgive me for not wanting to deprive pensioners of mobility just because the bus adds a few quid to the cost of your foreign holiday.
And it will still cost you 30 quid, just might not run as often with less demand.
To be honest in real life the pensioners I've met show a lot of compassion and totally understand how hard the young have it these days. The attitude on here is very different, with people constantly telling me I'm selfish. Not sure why, maybe its to avoid the shame of the next two generations picking up the tab for their lifestyles.
I met a pensioner last year that wanted to pay for the bus but the driver wouldn't let him. Got into an argument with the driver as he was saying he could afford it but the driver just waved him on.
This is what happens when you let private bus set the fares.
In London, the State sets all bus fares. All adult bus fares are £1.45 including those to Heathrow. Somewhat less than the £30 private bus operators choose charge.
And you want to reduce it even more!
If pensioners who have a car or sometimes more than one car don't apply for a bus pass why should pensioners who don't have a car have to give up their bus pass ?
Do you have any evidence to show that pensioners who have cars don't apply for a bus pass?
I ask because personally I don't see why they wouldn't apply for a bus pass, even if it's only in case the car breaks down, or maybe because it's cheaper than buying petrol.
What debt tell me exactly what I owe that young people will be paying for
No, of course not, and I never suggested that they don't. What I said was that if pensioners have no intention of using the bus, they'd be unlikely to apply for a bus pass.
I know what you said, my argument is that just because a pensioner has a car, then for the reasons I have given, it doesn't mean it's unlikely they would apply for a bus pass.
In which case we're in agreement!
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/26/transport-over-60s
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570718/Boom-free-bus-passes-no-buses-Pensioner-perk-popular-councils-forced-axe-services-pay-it.html
Not everyone that goes to an airport is going on holiday abroad. 30 for me doubles the price of going to visit family on a domestic flight.
Yet all these pensioners that brag about 4 holidays a year and winter fuel allowance that they use as beer money get the 30 quid trip free.
Ah this scare story being put around by Keith Ludeman, chief exec of Go-Ahead buses.
The local authorties in Newcastle have had quite enough of Mr Ludeman's bus operations in the Tyne & Wear. And now the councils there want bus operations back in state hands, just as its always been in London. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/sep/02/bus-battle-test-case-tyne-wear-privatisation
In Wales the amount paid for pass users was 100%, then 73% of adult fares and is proposed to go down to the 40%s.
Anyone with a very basic understanding of economics can understand these passes used with private company's is unsustainable.
And you counter with a scare story put out by the council to try and shift blame on private companies?
No scare story.
Councils want to control buses fares, service patterns and routes again. Just like it's always been like in London. I agree. I want other parts of the UK to have cities running their buses just like London with London bus style flat fares, real time information, smart cards, on board announcements and useful web sites.
And looks like local authorities in Newcastle and West Yorkshire intend to provide their local populations with the quality of bus service which people in London currently enjoy.
If flat fares, real time information, on board announcements, daily prices caps, smart card ticketing and easy to use web sites are good enough for London, then they are good enough for Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol....
Just look at what the local authorties would like to do to help the travelling public in West Yorkshire: http://www.wymetro.com/qualitycontracts/ . They've borrowed these excellent ideas from London's already popular scheme. Popular ? Bus use up by 60% over the last 10 years in the capital.
The national debt of over £1.5 trillion that resulted from people voting to spend more than the country raised in taxes on services for them. Let's aline high house prices which are crucifying the young and from which pensioners benefit when they sell their homes at many times what they paid for them.
Buses should be affordable to everyone in society. We don't have that at the moment and have an unfair and unsustainable system.
That still doesn't explain why or how them paying for their passes will help you with the considerable luxury of being able to fly and see your family. Your previous suggestions that today's pensioners have had it better than today's youth are now looking even more spectacularly laughable; how many of them could afford to fly domestically to see family - they couldn't drive that easily because there were no motorways.
You don't understand why the public funds shouldn't be used to give pensioners a free lift to the airport for their abroad holidays?
The low frills airline revolution has also gone over your head?
We now live in a world where a private airline without any public money can offer a 200mile round trip at about the same price as a 10 mile trip to the airport from a bus service that receives public money.
They already are in London. All adult London bus fares are £1.45. With the unemployed and those under 11 travelling for free. And adults never pay more than £4.20 in the day - regardless of the number of buses used.
Neither Labour nor the Conservative what London style bus operations extended to other UK cities.
And after Stagecoach buses gave money to the Scottish National Party back in 2006, neither do the SNP want state bus controls in Scotland either.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/snp-under-attack-after-bus-u-turn-1-744256
Alternatively, their pass could allocate them a certain number of free journeys per week/month/year and after that they have to pay full adult fares until the start of the next period.
I was on a bus the other week which was 15 minutes+ late. Almost every OAP that got on the bus moaned about it, no one else who was fare paying and probably trying to get to work on time, said a thing. I would just be grateful for whatever concession, to be honest! Some of them were borderline rude to the driver after he'd explained that he was delayed due to road works on the route. I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd thrown them off the bus.