Everybody has flops in their career, so it's not a big deal. And before anybody attacks me, no I wasn't one of those fans saying it would blow everybody else out of the water, going on about sales bla bla bla.
Her beginning was so explosive that it was never going to be sustained. Can she reach those heights again? At this point in time, it's doubtful because people aren't really on her side, but the public love a good comeback so who knows?
Out of the current batch of pop darlings, I do believe she's one of the most talented. She's got an ear for amazing hooks, she's able to make different arrangements of her songs, and I think she's got a great voice that showcases well in different genres such as jazz and musical theatre.
The problem is this: what we see is not the same as what she sees. We don't know background stories to do with the label or the Haus, but it's clear that all is not well behind the scenes with Gaga. This campaign has been a mess by anybody's standards let alone an artist of her calibre and fame. Born This Way wasn't much better either, in terms of execution. As a fan, I cannot say how frustrating this is. I'm not making excuses for her - I'm more than happy to point out what she's done wrong, but I just cannot at how Applause was deemed strong enough to be a lead single, and the mess with Venus/DWYW AGAIN after the whole Judas/Edge of Glory palava.
If she hadn't named the album ARTPOP and instead had named it something more personal, like a previous poster had mentioned - to do with overcoming addictions perhaps, I don't think we'd have half the problems. On its own, I don't think it's a bad album. It's over-produced yes, but the productions are actually very intricate and it's patent that a lot of care has gone into them. As instrumentals most of the songs can stand alone as pieces of work. You cannot say that about a lot of mainstream pop songs today. However, when you attach the name ARTPOP to this, and about how you're bringing art and pop together into the mainsteam - and you don't deliver something extremely new, you're in trouble.
Gaga's always been known for being weird - but back in TFM and even the beginning of BTW days, this was forgiven because she had the goods to back it up. It's not that people don't like weirdness, but people will forgive a lot if the material and aesthetic is good - look at how Prince behaves sometimes etc. Her aesthetic is all over the place right now, and she contradicts herself half the time and in big televised/printed interviews, she speaks in such an obscure manner that even fans have a hard time understand what she's saying. This turns people off. Combine this with good, but not amazing pop songs and it's too much.
What she needs to do is have a good long think. She needs to decide what she wants - mainstream domination, or a niche market. She cannot have both. Of course there are a few albums in history that have been a game changer, that don't pander to the masses, that have broad appeal - such as Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon - but this does not happen all the time. If she really wants to be known for changing the game and pushing the boundaries of music and art together, she needs to forget about mainstream success for a while. And that means going beyond stating she doesn't care about sales.
I believe Gaga has a lot of important things to say regarding how the music industry treats young women, and it's great she's been speaking up more recently about it. It hints at an awareness to her predicament. But she needs to be aware that the majority of her music, is not breaking any molds. This is fine, it's not like Katy Perry or Britney are blowing anybody away with her innovation, or Kesha, or even Rihanna really (no shade, just my opinion) - but just don't say that you are. If you're going to make big, outlandish statements, have the music to back it up.
Sorry for the essay, I seem incapable of writing short posts where gaga is concerned. As talented as she is, with all the ideas and thought that she puts into everything, she needs a better team, and just to pull herself together a bit. It's frustrating to always be hyped up for something, particularly when you know what she's capable of, only to be constantly disappointed.
I think we have reached the point where fans are trying to find other artists how have had a decline in fortunes to compare her too (somone even compared her to Prince!:o), that is never a good thing as it looks like they are just clutching at straws.
For every act who has initial success and then goes on to have a good and long carear, there are 10 who disappear completely
so sorry - not sure why i missed DWUW out...love the track...genuine mistake ...
You also missed Jewels and Drugs and Manicure ;-)
For me:
1. G.U.Y. (Purely because of the beginning "greetings loved ones"
2. Artpop
3. Venus
4. Aura
5. Applause
6. Mannicure
7. Fashion!
8. Donnatella
9. Sexx Dreams
10. Do What U Want
11. Jewels n Drugs
12. Mary Jane Holland
13. Dope
14. Swine
15. Gypsy
1. G.U.Y. (Purely because of the beginning "greetings loved ones"
2. Artpop
3. Venus
4. Aura
5. Applause
6. Mannicure
7. Fashion!
8. Donnatella
9. Sexx Dreams
10. Do What U Want
11. Jewels n Drugs
12. Mary Jane Holland
13. Dope
14. Swine
15. Gypsy
jewels and drugs is my least fave song that she has ever made.... I like some of the rap on it tho. Manicure - i prefer the rockier swinefest version. But as an album it really is something else - with a few tweaks.
Manicure, a song which had great potnetial.
The can you feel it can you feel - it after the chorus RUINED THE SONG!!! ( my hatred needs to be capitalised), should of gone straight to heal me like she did at itunes festival.
Manicure, a song which had great potnetial.
The can you feel it can you feel - it after the chorus RUINED THE SONG!!! ( my hatred needs to be capitalised), should of gone straight to heal me like she did at itunes festival.
Agreed. I think the flow of the song is better in the earlier version. I dont understand why it was changed. It hasn't improved the song.
She needs to stop with the desperation in trying to be controversial in her appearance/image with every new release. It was excting in 2009/10 but its just boring now.
She needs to just find an image and stick with it.
This whole subject has flopped.
Why you are resurrecting this thread I do not know?
For the final time, Artpop has not 'flopped', it has underperformed for gagas standards.
Which has been pointed out lord knows how many times.
It still amazes me that people still think ''Artpop is an expansive experiment'' it's a half decent pop album that could never live up to her own hype. She is not some experimental avant garde artiste she is a bit kooky with some MOR pop songs.
The album didn't do well as the music simply wasn't good enough to translate beyond her core audience. Is it awful no. Is at good as her best work no. Is this the end of her lets wait and see.
This whole subject has flopped.
Why you are resurrecting this thread I do not know?
For the final time, Artpop has not 'flopped', it has underperformed for gagas standards.
Which has been pointed out lord knows how many times.
Alright, if you aint happy about the thread then dont post in it. Im actually talking about g.u.y. Should i have mad a separate thread saying has "has g.u.y flopped". Would that be better?
Alright, if you aint happy about the thread then dont post in it. Im actually talking about g.u.y. Should i have mad a separate thread saying has "has g.u.y flopped". Would that be better?
Go ahead, you can post whatever you like dear
And I also can put my ten cents worth in where I see fit :cool:
I just find it bizarre the mindset of people sometimes who just go over and over and over the same thing, this subject has well and truley been done to death !
Yes we know artpop has not sold as well as the fame or born this way, because the music is not as good as the fame or born this way! That's what tends to happen in the commercial music industry.
Yes we know artpop has not sold as well as the fame or born this way, because the music is not as good as the fame or born this way! That's what tends to happen in the commercial music industry.
Of course an album may not sell as well as it is a bit different from earlier works and audiences don't always get it! Sales alone aren't necessarily a sign of quality.
Of course an album may not sell as well as it is a bit different from earlier works and audiences don't always get it! Sales alone aren't necessarily a sign of quality.
I think the reason Gaga gets it more than others is because some of her fans thought she was unstoppable and would continue to break records with her sales. Yet now we have Pink, Katy, Miley and Beyoncé selling more than she is. So Gaga's no longer the force she once was.
The entire ARTPOP era has been a mess for her. From the ''rush'' release of Applause being overshadowed by Roar to the non arrival of the much hyped video for DWUW to G.U.Y going no where in any of the main world charts. Everything is just a mess.
I've always doubted the hip injury claims to be honest because the time line for recovery never matched the reality. I'm surprised it wasn't even questioned more in the media. I know a few sites did throw shade at her but most of them just turned a blind eye.
This is the apparent moment the injury happened at around 2.40
all looks so staged and we know now Gaga can lie for England from the crap she posts on Twitter about ARTPOPS sales. If we are really to believe she could carry on the way she did after such a thing then I'm sorry but people have no knowledge of hip injuries. Even her voice tone stays the same. Not exactly a sign of someone in pain is it....
I've always doubted the hip injury claims to be honest because the time line for recovery never matched the reality. I'm surprised it wasn't even questioned more in the media. I know a few sites did throw shade at her but most of them just turned a blind eye.
This is the apparent moment the injury happened at around 2.40
all looks so staged and we know now Gaga can lie for England from the crap she posts on Twitter about ARTPOPS sales. If we are really to believe she could carry on the way she did after such a thing then I'm sorry but people have no knowledge of hip injuries.
I've said this before and it's been heavily hinted at from several sources that this is the case. There's just no way she would be able to put on a tour like she's doing with a hip injury like what she had and dance intensively every other night. I personally think she has some major issues with drink/drugs which is affecting the quality of her work.
I think the reason Gaga gets it more than others is because some of her fans thought she was unstoppable and would continue to break records with her sales. Yet now we have Pink, Katy, Miley and Beyoncé selling more than she is. So Gaga's no longer the force she once was.
The entire ARTPOP era has been a mess for her. From the ''rush'' release of Applause being overshadowed by Roar to the non arrival of the much hyped video for DWUW to G.U.Y going no where in any of the main world charts. Everything is just a mess.
Comments
Musically, lyrically, creatively and conceptually, it's a total ART FLOP.
Her beginning was so explosive that it was never going to be sustained. Can she reach those heights again? At this point in time, it's doubtful because people aren't really on her side, but the public love a good comeback so who knows?
Out of the current batch of pop darlings, I do believe she's one of the most talented. She's got an ear for amazing hooks, she's able to make different arrangements of her songs, and I think she's got a great voice that showcases well in different genres such as jazz and musical theatre.
The problem is this: what we see is not the same as what she sees. We don't know background stories to do with the label or the Haus, but it's clear that all is not well behind the scenes with Gaga. This campaign has been a mess by anybody's standards let alone an artist of her calibre and fame. Born This Way wasn't much better either, in terms of execution. As a fan, I cannot say how frustrating this is. I'm not making excuses for her - I'm more than happy to point out what she's done wrong, but I just cannot at how Applause was deemed strong enough to be a lead single, and the mess with Venus/DWYW AGAIN after the whole Judas/Edge of Glory palava.
If she hadn't named the album ARTPOP and instead had named it something more personal, like a previous poster had mentioned - to do with overcoming addictions perhaps, I don't think we'd have half the problems. On its own, I don't think it's a bad album. It's over-produced yes, but the productions are actually very intricate and it's patent that a lot of care has gone into them. As instrumentals most of the songs can stand alone as pieces of work. You cannot say that about a lot of mainstream pop songs today. However, when you attach the name ARTPOP to this, and about how you're bringing art and pop together into the mainsteam - and you don't deliver something extremely new, you're in trouble.
Gaga's always been known for being weird - but back in TFM and even the beginning of BTW days, this was forgiven because she had the goods to back it up. It's not that people don't like weirdness, but people will forgive a lot if the material and aesthetic is good - look at how Prince behaves sometimes etc. Her aesthetic is all over the place right now, and she contradicts herself half the time and in big televised/printed interviews, she speaks in such an obscure manner that even fans have a hard time understand what she's saying. This turns people off. Combine this with good, but not amazing pop songs and it's too much.
What she needs to do is have a good long think. She needs to decide what she wants - mainstream domination, or a niche market. She cannot have both. Of course there are a few albums in history that have been a game changer, that don't pander to the masses, that have broad appeal - such as Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon - but this does not happen all the time. If she really wants to be known for changing the game and pushing the boundaries of music and art together, she needs to forget about mainstream success for a while. And that means going beyond stating she doesn't care about sales.
I believe Gaga has a lot of important things to say regarding how the music industry treats young women, and it's great she's been speaking up more recently about it. It hints at an awareness to her predicament. But she needs to be aware that the majority of her music, is not breaking any molds. This is fine, it's not like Katy Perry or Britney are blowing anybody away with her innovation, or Kesha, or even Rihanna really (no shade, just my opinion) - but just don't say that you are. If you're going to make big, outlandish statements, have the music to back it up.
Sorry for the essay, I seem incapable of writing short posts where gaga is concerned. As talented as she is, with all the ideas and thought that she puts into everything, she needs a better team, and just to pull herself together a bit. It's frustrating to always be hyped up for something, particularly when you know what she's capable of, only to be constantly disappointed.
I think we have reached the point where fans are trying to find other artists how have had a decline in fortunes to compare her too (somone even compared her to Prince!:o), that is never a good thing as it looks like they are just clutching at straws.
For every act who has initial success and then goes on to have a good and long carear, there are 10 who disappear completely
You also missed Jewels and Drugs and Manicure ;-)
For me:
1. G.U.Y. (Purely because of the beginning "greetings loved ones"
2. Artpop
3. Venus
4. Aura
5. Applause
6. Mannicure
7. Fashion!
8. Donnatella
9. Sexx Dreams
10. Do What U Want
11. Jewels n Drugs
12. Mary Jane Holland
13. Dope
14. Swine
15. Gypsy
Jewels and Drugs is embarassingly bad!
The can you feel it can you feel - it after the chorus RUINED THE SONG!!! ( my hatred needs to be capitalised), should of gone straight to heal me like she did at itunes festival.
Artpop is an expensive experiment with no big hit singles and a complete lack of exciting visual media to push sales.
Applause was a decent track and the video was OK but neither were going to set the world on fire.
The DWUW debacle that followed was just a complete mess and lacked any form of coherence and structure in terms of a single release.
I think Gaga is one of the most talented musicians of our generation but the Artpop campaign has been a disaster.
A mediocre album can sell millions off the back of one great single with an amazing video.
Gypsy could've been that track but I fear she's left it too late.
Don't be a cult Gaga. Try a bit harder next time.
Agreed. I think the flow of the song is better in the earlier version. I dont understand why it was changed. It hasn't improved the song.
She needs to just find an image and stick with it.
My opinion.
Here are some shoots (the first link) from the music video:
1. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/85574107.html
2. http://www.gigwise.com/news/88601/lady-gaga-reportedly-bitten-by-slow-loris-on-video-shoot
Also, it has been rumoured that the tracklist for Artpop: Part Two album has leaked although I would take this rumour with a pinch of salt.
Time to end this era i think
This whole subject has flopped.
Why you are resurrecting this thread I do not know?
For the final time, Artpop has not 'flopped', it has underperformed for gagas standards.
Which has been pointed out lord knows how many times.
The album didn't do well as the music simply wasn't good enough to translate beyond her core audience. Is it awful no. Is at good as her best work no. Is this the end of her lets wait and see.
Alright, if you aint happy about the thread then dont post in it. Im actually talking about g.u.y. Should i have mad a separate thread saying has "has g.u.y flopped". Would that be better?
Go ahead, you can post whatever you like dear
And I also can put my ten cents worth in where I see fit :cool:
I just find it bizarre the mindset of people sometimes who just go over and over and over the same thing, this subject has well and truley been done to death !
Yes we know artpop has not sold as well as the fame or born this way, because the music is not as good as the fame or born this way! That's what tends to happen in the commercial music industry.
Although she's not as good as Cyndi Lauper by a long shot.
Of course an album may not sell as well as it is a bit different from earlier works and audiences don't always get it! Sales alone aren't necessarily a sign of quality.
I think the reason Gaga gets it more than others is because some of her fans thought she was unstoppable and would continue to break records with her sales. Yet now we have Pink, Katy, Miley and Beyoncé selling more than she is. So Gaga's no longer the force she once was.
The entire ARTPOP era has been a mess for her. From the ''rush'' release of Applause being overshadowed by Roar to the non arrival of the much hyped video for DWUW to G.U.Y going no where in any of the main world charts. Everything is just a mess.
It all started to go wrong when she lied about having a hip injury when she was going to rehab.
I thought she had hip surgery??
Gypsy sounds so dated.
That's the cover story, its pretty well known that she was in rehab.
This is the apparent moment the injury happened at around 2.40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRmDAg9RQo
all looks so staged and we know now Gaga can lie for England from the crap she posts on Twitter about ARTPOPS sales. If we are really to believe she could carry on the way she did after such a thing then I'm sorry but people have no knowledge of hip injuries. Even her voice tone stays the same. Not exactly a sign of someone in pain is it....
I've said this before and it's been heavily hinted at from several sources that this is the case. There's just no way she would be able to put on a tour like she's doing with a hip injury like what she had and dance intensively every other night. I personally think she has some major issues with drink/drugs which is affecting the quality of her work.
This.