It was an excellent scene and if by this 3rd season you haven't got the hang of the characters by now have you really been watching the show? (A general question not directed at you)
It was an excellently put together scene all about power all the way through: Tywin's power over Cersei; Cersei's power over Jaime (because she thought like other times she could get him to kill for her) and finally Jaime's power over Cersei by forcing her to have sex with him.
That is what the scene was all about - if some people just concentrate on a sex assault in one scene in episode of a show that has had murder, assassination, male genital mutilation, child killings then they really shouldn't be watching the show and have a distorted view of reality.
Completely agree. We have to take the scene in it's contexts and at it's core theme was power struggle. Between Tywin and Tommen (sp) and Tywin and Cersei, then Cersei and Jamie.
We're fine with an entire village being slaughtered and cannibalism, the enslavement of generations and generations of people, yet a scene between Cersei and Jamie garner's the most attention? That's seems weird to me. Especially as this entire episode has seemed to be about people who have seemed redeemable in the past, now show themselves for what they really are. Flawed. We see it in The Hound when he steals from the farmer. We see it in Jamie when he violently attacks his sister. We see it in Lord Balish when he rescues Sansa, yet kills the man who helps her. At his core, I think George RR Martin wants to let us know he thinks people are s**ts deep down and always will be.
Completely agree. We have to take the scene in it's contexts and at it's core theme was power struggle. Between Tywin and Tommen (sp) and Tywin and Cersei, then Cersei and Jamie.
We're fine with an entire village being slaughtered and cannibalism, the enslavement of generations and generations of people, yet a scene between Cersei and Jamie garner's the most attention? That's seems weird to me. Especially as this entire episode has seemed to be about people who have seemed redeemable in the past, now show themselves for what they really are. Flawed. We see it in The Hound when he steals from the farmer. We see it in Jamie when he violently attacks his sister. We see it in Lord Balish when he rescues Sansa, yet kills the man who helps her. At his core, I think George RR Martin wants to let us know he thinks people are s**ts deep down and always will be.
Completely agree. We have to take the scene in it's contexts and at it's core theme was power struggle. Between Tywin and Tommen (sp) and Tywin and Cersei, then Cersei and Jamie.
We're fine with an entire village being slaughtered and cannibalism, the enslavement of generations and generations of people, yet a scene between Cersei and Jamie garner's the most attention? That's seems weird to me. Especially as this entire episode has seemed to be about people who have seemed redeemable in the past, now show themselves for what they really are. Flawed. We see it in The Hound when he steals from the farmer. We see it in Jamie when he violently attacks his sister. We see it in Lord Balish when he rescues Sansa, yet kills the man who helps her. At his core, I think George RR Martin wants to let us know he thinks people are s**ts deep down and always will be.
I dont disagree with anything, but with regards to the bit on bold; I think the reason that has caused the most attention (apart from the event appartently differing from the book) is because rape hits closer to home than any of those other things. As distubing as these things are, we can put some distance between them and ourselves because we're not likely to be involved in situations where we will be the victims of torture, genital mutilation, canabalisism, ensevalement or slaughter, and our home towns arent likely to be at risk of brutal invasion. However, rape is sadly still very relevant and it does happen (including domestic rape). That makes watching it far more unconfortable and is likley to casue more emotive reactions. (I'm neither defending or attacking the scene here, just giving my thoughts on the BIB.)
Game of Thrones is a fantasy television series, which takes a setting (with embellishments) from 14th century Europe. That does not allow a 2014 definition of rape, much as we would accept that this was rape, to be the certain outcome of this scene in a series which has a historical setting.
Game of Thrones doesn't pretend to apply 21st century mores to its setting. In 14th century Europe, "Rape" really wasn't what we consider it today. Mainly, of course, because the societal view of women was an appalling one by today's standards
The real problem is that there are a lot of fans of Game of Thrones who, coming from a background which is not used to historical fiction but more used to Twilight is too desperate to "ship" characters and go "ooooh, wouldn't a newly redeemed Jaime and Brienne be so sweet".
That lacks context of the series you have watched, the reality of what is presented and the likely actions of the characters in it.
In the mores of Game of Thrones Jaime did nothing that was wrong to the character of Jaime. It's just not the character you want to see because all you want is Edward Cullen or Mr Big with a sword and shield.
This post amused me although I agree with it's sentiment.
I am not referring to the poster you quoted but I think that there ARE a number of people who do view this show through rose tinted glasses, especially those who read the books. In other media there certainly seems to be a 'fan boy/ girl type' thing going on which would be more appropriate to a Twilight or Sex in the City does Westeros type show.
Even having said that, the outrage/ disdain to the rape scene has actually surprised me, considering it's into the 4th season now and we have seen far worse from supposedly good (let alone supposedly 'redeemed' characters) to date.
Whilst I can appreciate the book purists being put out by certain changes, what surprises me most are those who believe it's so out of character, especially given what we know about them to date.
Same goes for Ygritte or the Hound or indeed anyone else.
In fact I'd argue the number of characters in the show who don't have some kind of negative element to them either through words or actions are few and far between. If Ned Stark had raped Cersei then yeah perhaps it would be out of kilter. Jamie Lannister though? Not so much.
As distubing as these things are, we can put some distance between them and ourselves because we're not likely to be involved in situations where we will be the victims of torture, genital mutilation, canabalisism, ensevalement or slaughter, and our home towns arent likely to be at risk of brutal invasion.QUOTE]
I personally find it disturbing that people can have that amount of cognitive dissonance for certain things the which are happening in the world today but on one certain thing...because we have been told 'it's the worst thing' 'everyone' is up in arms about it and saying it is the worst thing ever shown on Game Of Thrones.
[I personally find it disturbing that people can have that amount of cognitive dissonance for certain things the which are happening in the world today but on one certain thing...because we have been told 'it's the worst thing' 'everyone' is up in arms about it and saying it is the worst thing ever shown on Game Of Thrones.
They are happening, and we all know it. But if we allowed ourselves to care deeply about all the terrible things that are happening in the world we'd go mad. It may be selfish and be disturbing to you, but emotional distance is a form of self preservation. When it's something that could happen to yourself or a loved one it generally tends to have a stronger emotional impact.
In fact I'd argue the number of characters in the show who don't have some kind of negative element to them either through words or actions are few and far between. If Ned Stark had raped Cersei then yeah perhaps it would be out of kilter. Jamie Lannister though? Not so much.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
For me the BIB is not even close. You can't honestly say that surely.
re your 'there has never been any suggestion' bit you could argue that for many different characters and events, and it still does not mean that a specific action isn't entirely plausible.
Re Jamie, you could easily make a case for it to be perfectly within his capabilities. Just because you haven't seen him rape anyone before and just because we have seen him act differently with Cersei before of course doesn't mean he couldn't or wouldn't do what he did and it still be perfectly plausible, if unexpected. Rape isn't always about sex, in fact often it could be argued that it is more a power and control thing.
There are many sides to his character that the TV show has shown and it's not as black and white as 'he used to be bad, but he lost a hand, saw a bit of redemption through Brienne/ has seen the light, and now he's a goodie' type thing. (I am not implying that you are saying this by the way).
Suffice it to say you and I disagree on this, and for me it's nowhere near as big a deal as so many seem to be making out.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
Except that he doesn't consider it sexual violence. As far as he's concerned she's protesting that it's an inappropriate place to be enjoying themselves and he's insisting that here and now is precisely the best time to be taking their minds off the tragedy by celebrating their love for each other.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
I disagree. I think Jaime is easily capable of seeing red mist and doing stupid things.
Except that he doesn't consider it sexual violence. As far as he's concerned she's protesting that it's an inappropriate place to be enjoying themselves and he's insisting that here and now is precisely the best time to be taking their minds off the tragedy by celebrating their love for each other.
He's forcing someone to have sex while they protest the whole time and try to push him away. By anyone's definition that is rape. Even in ancient times people were prosecuted for that, it's not a modern view.
He's forcing someone to have sex while they protest the whole time and try to push him away. By anyone's definition that is rape. Even in ancient times people were prosecuted for that, it's not a modern view.
I'm not arguing the definition of rape I am arguing whether it is out of character. His motivation and thought process may not be an excuse in a court of law but they go directly towards his character. Which was the point at hand and what most people are complaining about.
If he's forcing himself on her because he wants to abuse her and punish her then it's out of character. If he's forcing himself on her because he wants to comfort her by taking her mind off her tragedy and considers the protests to be for propriety's sake and not genuine then it's not out of character to do what he did, whether it was actually rape or not.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he was doing it to comfort her, considering that only moments before that he called her a "hateful woman" and looked angry. And the actor himself said he was doing it out of a sense of powerlessness and to gain some power out of the situation.
Recently we've been filled in on Dorne and the Martells and we're led to believe the Martells blame the Lannisters for what happened to their sister when she was killed by 'the mountain'. Yet earlier in the show the Lannisters sent Cersie's daughter Myrcella off to Dorne as some sort of deal with the Martells.
I know Cersei wasn't happy that Tyrion had set it up during his time as acting hand of the king, but back then there was no mention of the trouble the Lannisters expected when Prince Oberyn turned up for the wedding, and no one's even mentioned Myrcella in recent episodes. The Martells could have done anything to her!
And the actor himself said he was doing it out of a sense of powerlessness and to gain some power out of the situation.
And it worked...I have zero sympathy for the duplicitous murdering woman. Strange how no-one is up in arms at her getting power by having other people kill for her...i.e. she is killing people for the power Jaime was trying to get by forcing himself on her...but it seems murdering loads of people in cold blood isn't as bad as this rape. Hey ho...strange old world these days.
I find this conversation honestly upsetting. We've gone from "Jaime thinks it's not rape" even though he clearly has a cell in his brain somewhere, to "I don't like this woman so it's okay for her to be raped".
The uproar isn't so much about the action itself (because there has been rape and sexual assault aplenty) but the fact that it happened in a supposedly loving partnership and it wasn't there in the books. If Ramsay Snow raped Cersei, people would be shrugging and saying that it's uncomfortable but not unexpected. Plenty has been said about how Cersei is a terrible woman for having those infants murdered, etc.
I find this conversation honestly upsetting. We've gone from "Jaime thinks it's not rape" even though he clearly has a cell in his brain somewhere, to "I don't like this woman so it's okay for her to be raped".
The uproar isn't so much about the action itself (because there has been rape and sexual assault aplenty) but the fact that it happened in a supposedly loving partnership and it wasn't there in the books. If Ramsay Snow raped Cersei, people would be shrugging and saying that it's uncomfortable but not unexpected. Plenty has been said about how Cersei is a terrible woman for having those infants murdered, etc.
Joffrey ordered that without telling Cersei first.
Recently we've been filled in on Dorne and the Martells and we're led to believe the Martells blame the Lannisters for what happened to their sister when she was killed by 'the mountain'. Yet earlier in the show the Lannisters sent Cersie's daughter Myrcella off to Dorne as some sort of deal with the Martells.
I know Cersei wasn't happy that Tyrion had set it up during his time as acting hand of the king, but back then there was no mention of the trouble the Lannisters expected when Prince Oberyn turned up for the wedding, and no one's even mentioned Myrcella in recent episodes. The Martells could have done anything to her!
Mrycella is a Princess and matching her with a Prince (even with Dorne) is not such a stretch. Tyrion did it to gain their support in the war, or at least some loyalty so they wouldn't aid the Lannisters enemies, and they get a Princess as their end of the deal, it's not so out there really.
She was mentioned in episode 4.1 by Cersei and 4.2 by Oberyn.
Odd she wasn't mentioned in the context of a wedding invite though, even to explain her absence. As the King's only sister i'd expect her, her intended and the oldest Prince to be asked.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
I don't think it is out of character for Jamie. We have a man known as a formidable swordsman who has lost his fighting hand and has been humbled. Since losing his hand, the woman he loves has rejected all his advances. This has left him feeling both emasculated & powerless. He is trying to regain some of that power by learning to fight with his other hand, but it's early days yet, and if anything realising how much he has to learn only makes him feel more powerless. We know he is used to getting what he wants, by any means necessary, and without much remorse...and that is exactly what he did. He had reached a point where he desperately needed to reassert his power, and did just that. In this case it was by overpowering and sexually forcing himself on his sister, who despite loving, had been in control of the relationship since his return.
I find this conversation honestly upsetting. We've gone from "Jaime thinks it's not rape" even though he clearly has a cell in his brain somewhere, to "I don't like this woman so it's okay for her to be raped".
Ah, that is not what I have said - if Jaime had killed her at that point finding out that she had used him we wouldn't have a 'murder is murder' discussion...it would probably have been an 'As Tyrion said she's had her hand in many murders over the years so she really had it coming to her at some point.'
Joffrey: "I don't like this person so it's OK for him to be poisoned and killed.'
"I don't like Theon Greyjoy so it's OK for him to have his penis chopped off while he is still conscious."
I haven't seen those comments exactly but I've seen people essentially say that and no-one has exactly jumped down their throats to say 'No matter what they have done that does not mean they should be tortured or killed.'
I find this conversation upsetting that people fully accept murder/torture/cannablism/maiming etc etc that has been going on for over 3seasons but some people can't accept this rape/sexual assualt/forced sex for some reason that is the only thing people have said 'ooo the programme makers/characters have really crossed the line here'. Perverted world...perverted world.
I think this has all been blown out of proportion. The scene made me uncomfortable when I watched it but I never saw it as violent rape. The scene to me was meant to symbolise their complex relationship. I saw it as Jamie realising it was the only way he could show Cersei that he still loved her. Sounds terrible but Cersei is an incredibly disturbed woman full of hate. I think the only way he could show her he loved her was through emotions usually associated with hate (power and force). After all this is how she shows her love for her family, through murdering people in there way. Hence the line why have the gods made me love a hateful woman. Besides if Cersei really didn't want it to happen I think she would have killed him there and then. This scene was meant to be a murky grey area.
Ah, that is not what I have said - if Jaime had killed her at that point finding out that she had used him we wouldn't have a 'murder is murder' discussion...it would probably have been an 'As Tyrion said she's had her hand in many murders over the years so she really had it coming to her at some point.'
Joffrey: "I don't like this person so it's OK for him to be poisoned and killed.'
"I don't like Theon Greyjoy so it's OK for him to have his penis chopped off while he is still conscious."
I haven't seen those comments exactly but I've seen people essentially say that and no-one has exactly jumped down their throats to say 'No matter what they have done that does not mean they should be tortured or killed.'
I find this conversation upsetting that people fully accept murder/torture/cannablism/maiming etc etc that has been going on for over 3seasons but some people can't accept this rape/sexual assualt/forced sex for some reason that is the only thing people have said 'ooo the programme makers/characters have really crossed the line here'. Perverted world...perverted world.
I think the thing is that rape is quite a contentious crime in real life. The whole "they had it coming/were asking for it/dressing to provoke," issues that come up make rape a subject that a lot of people feel isn't taken seriously enough. Consequently, it sets people off in a way that other serious crimes might not.
You don't generally hear people saying "they brought it on themselves," when talking about a premeditated murder. Well, you do on DS General Discussion, but that's a whole different ballgame to real life!
Not saying I agree that I necessarily agree with that position, but I can certainly understand why it might be more emotionally disturbing/closer-to-home than death or maiming.
Another way to look at it; an evil character dying as a form of justice is very, very common in TV and film. So much so that it is something most are desensitized to (in a fictional form, that is). Rape, however, is not something you see a lot of on TV.
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Not saying I agree that I necessarily agree with that position, but I can certainly understand why it might be more emotionally disturbing/closer-to-home than death or maiming.
Rape, however, is not something you see a lot of on TV.
Exactly, it does show how some people can't disconnect fact from fiction which I find disturbing.
I find this conversation upsetting that people fully accept murder/torture/cannablism/maiming etc etc that has been going on for over 3seasons but some people can't accept this rape/sexual assualt/forced sex for some reason that is the only thing people have said 'ooo the programme makers/characters have really crossed the line here'. Perverted world...perverted world.
Well, in this thread, only one poster has posted something remotely similar to that. To be honest I think you're over reacting. And there have been complaints about the levels of violence, brutality and sex since season 1.
I dunno. I think too many people applying 21st century morals/thinking to something that is set a long long time ago...in a different time where there were different attitudes to all things.
Comments
Completely agree. We have to take the scene in it's contexts and at it's core theme was power struggle. Between Tywin and Tommen (sp) and Tywin and Cersei, then Cersei and Jamie.
We're fine with an entire village being slaughtered and cannibalism, the enslavement of generations and generations of people, yet a scene between Cersei and Jamie garner's the most attention? That's seems weird to me. Especially as this entire episode has seemed to be about people who have seemed redeemable in the past, now show themselves for what they really are. Flawed. We see it in The Hound when he steals from the farmer. We see it in Jamie when he violently attacks his sister. We see it in Lord Balish when he rescues Sansa, yet kills the man who helps her. At his core, I think George RR Martin wants to let us know he thinks people are s**ts deep down and always will be.
Don't forget Ygritte slaughtering innocent peasants!
I dont disagree with anything, but with regards to the bit on bold; I think the reason that has caused the most attention (apart from the event appartently differing from the book) is because rape hits closer to home than any of those other things. As distubing as these things are, we can put some distance between them and ourselves because we're not likely to be involved in situations where we will be the victims of torture, genital mutilation, canabalisism, ensevalement or slaughter, and our home towns arent likely to be at risk of brutal invasion. However, rape is sadly still very relevant and it does happen (including domestic rape). That makes watching it far more unconfortable and is likley to casue more emotive reactions. (I'm neither defending or attacking the scene here, just giving my thoughts on the BIB.)
This post amused me although I agree with it's sentiment.
I am not referring to the poster you quoted but I think that there ARE a number of people who do view this show through rose tinted glasses, especially those who read the books. In other media there certainly seems to be a 'fan boy/ girl type' thing going on which would be more appropriate to a Twilight or Sex in the City does Westeros type show.
Even having said that, the outrage/ disdain to the rape scene has actually surprised me, considering it's into the 4th season now and we have seen far worse from supposedly good (let alone supposedly 'redeemed' characters) to date.
Whilst I can appreciate the book purists being put out by certain changes, what surprises me most are those who believe it's so out of character, especially given what we know about them to date.
Same goes for Ygritte or the Hound or indeed anyone else.
In fact I'd argue the number of characters in the show who don't have some kind of negative element to them either through words or actions are few and far between. If Ned Stark had raped Cersei then yeah perhaps it would be out of kilter. Jamie Lannister though? Not so much.
They are happening, and we all know it. But if we allowed ourselves to care deeply about all the terrible things that are happening in the world we'd go mad. It may be selfish and be disturbing to you, but emotional distance is a form of self preservation. When it's something that could happen to yourself or a loved one it generally tends to have a stronger emotional impact.
Jaime was the one person in the world who treated Cersei well. HE was the one person who cared about her, who loved her, and who - and this was actually a key plot point - gave her autonomy. He allowed her to make choices. There has never been any suggestion in the books or the show (that I recall) that implies Jaime is remotely okay with sexual violence. In fact, he risked his life and ultimately lost his hand to protect Brienne from the same fate. It is as out of character for Jaime as it would have been for Ned.
For me the BIB is not even close. You can't honestly say that surely.
re your 'there has never been any suggestion' bit you could argue that for many different characters and events, and it still does not mean that a specific action isn't entirely plausible.
Re Jamie, you could easily make a case for it to be perfectly within his capabilities. Just because you haven't seen him rape anyone before and just because we have seen him act differently with Cersei before of course doesn't mean he couldn't or wouldn't do what he did and it still be perfectly plausible, if unexpected. Rape isn't always about sex, in fact often it could be argued that it is more a power and control thing.
There are many sides to his character that the TV show has shown and it's not as black and white as 'he used to be bad, but he lost a hand, saw a bit of redemption through Brienne/ has seen the light, and now he's a goodie' type thing. (I am not implying that you are saying this by the way).
Suffice it to say you and I disagree on this, and for me it's nowhere near as big a deal as so many seem to be making out.
Except that he doesn't consider it sexual violence. As far as he's concerned she's protesting that it's an inappropriate place to be enjoying themselves and he's insisting that here and now is precisely the best time to be taking their minds off the tragedy by celebrating their love for each other.
I disagree. I think Jaime is easily capable of seeing red mist and doing stupid things.
He's forcing someone to have sex while they protest the whole time and try to push him away. By anyone's definition that is rape. Even in ancient times people were prosecuted for that, it's not a modern view.
I'm not arguing the definition of rape I am arguing whether it is out of character. His motivation and thought process may not be an excuse in a court of law but they go directly towards his character. Which was the point at hand and what most people are complaining about.
If he's forcing himself on her because he wants to abuse her and punish her then it's out of character. If he's forcing himself on her because he wants to comfort her by taking her mind off her tragedy and considers the protests to be for propriety's sake and not genuine then it's not out of character to do what he did, whether it was actually rape or not.
I know Cersei wasn't happy that Tyrion had set it up during his time as acting hand of the king, but back then there was no mention of the trouble the Lannisters expected when Prince Oberyn turned up for the wedding, and no one's even mentioned Myrcella in recent episodes. The Martells could have done anything to her!
And it worked...I have zero sympathy for the duplicitous murdering woman. Strange how no-one is up in arms at her getting power by having other people kill for her...i.e. she is killing people for the power Jaime was trying to get by forcing himself on her...but it seems murdering loads of people in cold blood isn't as bad as this rape. Hey ho...strange old world these days.
The uproar isn't so much about the action itself (because there has been rape and sexual assault aplenty) but the fact that it happened in a supposedly loving partnership and it wasn't there in the books. If Ramsay Snow raped Cersei, people would be shrugging and saying that it's uncomfortable but not unexpected. Plenty has been said about how Cersei is a terrible woman for having those infants murdered, etc.
Joffrey ordered that without telling Cersei first.
Mrycella is a Princess and matching her with a Prince (even with Dorne) is not such a stretch. Tyrion did it to gain their support in the war, or at least some loyalty so they wouldn't aid the Lannisters enemies, and they get a Princess as their end of the deal, it's not so out there really.
She was mentioned in episode 4.1 by Cersei and 4.2 by Oberyn.
Odd she wasn't mentioned in the context of a wedding invite though, even to explain her absence. As the King's only sister i'd expect her, her intended and the oldest Prince to be asked.
I don't think it is out of character for Jamie. We have a man known as a formidable swordsman who has lost his fighting hand and has been humbled. Since losing his hand, the woman he loves has rejected all his advances. This has left him feeling both emasculated & powerless. He is trying to regain some of that power by learning to fight with his other hand, but it's early days yet, and if anything realising how much he has to learn only makes him feel more powerless. We know he is used to getting what he wants, by any means necessary, and without much remorse...and that is exactly what he did. He had reached a point where he desperately needed to reassert his power, and did just that. In this case it was by overpowering and sexually forcing himself on his sister, who despite loving, had been in control of the relationship since his return.
Ah, that is not what I have said - if Jaime had killed her at that point finding out that she had used him we wouldn't have a 'murder is murder' discussion...it would probably have been an 'As Tyrion said she's had her hand in many murders over the years so she really had it coming to her at some point.'
Joffrey: "I don't like this person so it's OK for him to be poisoned and killed.'
"I don't like Theon Greyjoy so it's OK for him to have his penis chopped off while he is still conscious."
I haven't seen those comments exactly but I've seen people essentially say that and no-one has exactly jumped down their throats to say 'No matter what they have done that does not mean they should be tortured or killed.'
I find this conversation upsetting that people fully accept murder/torture/cannablism/maiming etc etc that has been going on for over 3seasons but some people can't accept this rape/sexual assualt/forced sex for some reason that is the only thing people have said 'ooo the programme makers/characters have really crossed the line here'. Perverted world...perverted world.
I think the thing is that rape is quite a contentious crime in real life. The whole "they had it coming/were asking for it/dressing to provoke," issues that come up make rape a subject that a lot of people feel isn't taken seriously enough. Consequently, it sets people off in a way that other serious crimes might not.
You don't generally hear people saying "they brought it on themselves," when talking about a premeditated murder. Well, you do on DS General Discussion, but that's a whole different ballgame to real life!
Not saying I agree that I necessarily agree with that position, but I can certainly understand why it might be more emotionally disturbing/closer-to-home than death or maiming.
Another way to look at it; an evil character dying as a form of justice is very, very common in TV and film. So much so that it is something most are desensitized to (in a fictional form, that is). Rape, however, is not something you see a lot of on TV.
Exactly, it does show how some people can't disconnect fact from fiction which I find disturbing.
Well, in this thread, only one poster has posted something remotely similar to that. To be honest I think you're over reacting. And there have been complaints about the levels of violence, brutality and sex since season 1.
In Game of Thrones it has happened however on several occasions (and the almost incident with Sansa)
I still don't think it was even anywhere near as bad as Joffrey killing the prostitute (not Ros,one of the two he was "given" for his birthday)