Britain's Whale Hunters: The Untold Story (BBC4 9pm Mon 9th June)

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  • Bulletguy1Bulletguy1 Posts: 18,429
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    Good old Beeb......episode 1 was repeated last night so i've caught up now. :D

    I think whats difficult for some to recognise is that at one time Whaling was an Industry employing many people providing a range of commodities from lamp oil to Corsets! Nothing was wasted.....everything had a use. It certainly wasn't killing an animal for the sake of killing.

    I didn't find the scenes distressing as i've seen similar before but certainly the Scottish Whaler who described how he would hear a Whale he'd just harpooned 'let out a cry'....that wasn't so nice and he certainly felt the same too.

    For those hunting it was a dangerous job not unlike the Trawler fishermen of today, all of whom put their lives at great risk every day (some who lost them), just so we can walk into our local Fish 'n Chip shop!

    A very fascinating documentary.
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    Bulletguy1 wrote: »
    Good old Beeb......episode 1 was repeated last night so i've caught up now. :D

    I think whats difficult for some to recognise is that at one time Whaling was an Industry employing many people providing a range of commodities from lamp oil to Corsets! Nothing was wasted.....everything had a use. It certainly wasn't killing an animal for the sake of killing. ...... .

    And, as was pointed out on the programme, there were no alternatives for many of the uses of by-products of the whale at that time.
  • matchmakermatchmaker Posts: 1,095
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    If you want to read about what life was like for the whalers, try this book:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Of-Whales-Men-R-Robertson/dp/0671203517

    Maybe not at that price - my (hardback) copy cost me £2 from a secondhand bookshop!
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    matchmaker wrote: »
    If you want to read about what life was like for the whalers, try this book:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Of-Whales-Men-R-Robertson/dp/0671203517

    Maybe not at that price - my (hardback) copy cost me £2 from a secondhand bookshop!

    I love that the original price in the 1950s was 3 shillings and sixpence. :)
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    Bulletguy1 wrote: »
    BIB is a real 'issue' for me actually!

    When on Harris i spoke with a chap who did boat trips out to St Kilda. It's not cheap but thought to myself 'i might not get another chance'. He took my mobile number and said he'd let me know as trips are entirely subject to weather conditions which are very changeable.

    Unfortunately the only day i could go, the weather was too bad and he'd had to cancel all bookings so i never got to see the place.

    This is the guy i contacted (i see the cost is now £190..:o..7 years ago it was £140! :o).

    http://www.kildacruises.co.uk/

    Here is more about this fascinating place;

    http://www.kilda.org.uk/

    It's such a shame you didn't make it because of the weather, thanks for those St.Kilda links. To be honest, £190 is not as expensive as I was expecting, I would be willing to pay if I ever make it up that way, as it's so remote I'd imagined I'd have to hire a boat myself, and I can't even drive!! Great to know this firm does a daily trip in the Summer, weather permitting. I've got a couple of books on St.Kilda, and the photos are so dramatic. I think after The Whale Hunters, the BBC could make a programme about the St Kilda seabird catchers at the top of a steep cliff, as it was their main source of food (boiled with potatoes, no veg available), and how they buried and preserved a supply of them to eat later. The whole Island consisted mainly of 2 families of extended relations, so everyone helped eachother and had different skills to contribute to the community.
  • Bulletguy1Bulletguy1 Posts: 18,429
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    lundavra wrote: »
    And, as was pointed out on the programme, there were no alternatives for many of the uses of by-products of the whale at that time.
    Yes and nothing went to waste. There was a use for everything.......even Corsets which now of course have become a 'fetish' fashion but don't need to use whalebone any longer.

    It wasn't as though the Whale was being hunted for sport to provide 'fun' for the wealthy.

    La Rhumba wrote: »
    It's such a shame you didn't make it because of the weather, thanks for those St.Kilda links. To be honest, £190 is not as expensive as I was expecting, I would be willing to pay if I ever make it up that way, as it's so remote I'd imagined I'd have to hire a boat myself, and I can't even drive!! Great to know this firm does a daily trip in the Summer, weather permitting. I've got a couple of books on St.Kilda, and the photos are so dramatic. I think after The Whale Hunters, the BBC could make a programme about the St Kilda seabird catchers at the top of a steep cliff, as it was their main source of food (boiled with potatoes, no veg available), and how they buried and preserved a supply of them to eat later. The whole Island consisted mainly of 2 families of extended relations, so everyone helped each other and had different skills to contribute to the community.
    If ever you get the chance i'd still say go for it! It's a 'one off' and you may never get the opportunity again so yes, despite the cost, it's worth it.

    I did compensate myself at missing out on St Kilda by taking a day boat trip to the uninhabited island of Mingulay off the southern most tip from Barra.

    The boat drops you off and you then have 4 hours to explore the island.....with the warning "take great care at the far edge of the island as it's a sheer cliff face drop straight into the ocean.....and anyone that falls in won't be coming back!!" :o

    Anyway a few folk did manage to venture that far but i didn't as i kept getting attacked by wild birds (can't remember what they call them now) which are known for swooping low at high speed and often cause injuries to the unsuspecting.

    The few who did manage to make the cliff edge were rewarded with a view just feet away from the nest of a Golden Eagle with two chicks.

    I was fuming mad with myself at not seeing that due to these batty birds!

    Barra is lovely though and i really enjoyed my stay there. After Barra i then spent a few days on Tiree, another small island.
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    La Rhumba wrote: »
    It's such a shame you didn't make it because of the weather, thanks for those St.Kilda links. To be honest, £190 is not as expensive as I was expecting, I would be willing to pay if I ever make it up that way, as it's so remote I'd imagined I'd have to hire a boat myself, and I can't even drive!! Great to know this firm does a daily trip in the Summer, weather permitting. I've got a couple of books on St.Kilda, and the photos are so dramatic. I think after The Whale Hunters, the BBC could make a programme about the St Kilda seabird catchers at the top of a steep cliff, as it was their main source of food (boiled with potatoes, no veg available), and how they buried and preserved a supply of them to eat later. The whole Island consisted mainly of 2 families of extended relations, so everyone helped eachother and had different skills to contribute to the community.

    I am sure there have been many programmes about various aspects of St Kilda and there has been in the last few years a programme on the tradition of eating Guga in Ness. I have been to a few talks by people about the history of the islands.

    There are plans for a St Kilda visitor centre at Uig

    http://www.ionadhiort.org/

    Lewis and Harris have a some sort of community centre in each area of the island, these all have a museum / heritage / family history section and at least one has records about people who lived on St Kilda.

    The excellent Hebridean Connections website has some information about Kilda, just put in the search box.

    http://www.hebrideanconnections.com/

    This book has some interesting stories of people who lived there.

    When I Was Young: Voices from Lost Communities in Scotland - The Islands

    Timothy Neat
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    Another source of information on the Western Isles is the Islands Book Trust. They publish a number of books about the area and subjects related to the area. They also have conferences on topics of interest, often associated with the publication of a new book. And they organise trips out to some of the smaller uninhabited islands and a couple of years ago to various island lighthouses.

    http://www.theislandsbooktrust.com/
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    Wow! Thanks so much Lundrava for the great information and links. I've bookmarked them all. They should hire you as a Tourist Guide as you're very knowledgeable! :)

    Bulletguy1 wrote: »
    If ever you get the chance i'd still say go for it! It's a 'one off' and you may never get the opportunity again so yes, despite the cost, it's worth it.

    I did compensate myself at missing out on St Kilda by taking a day boat trip to the uninhabited island of Mingulay off the southern most tip from Barra.

    The boat drops you off and you then have 4 hours to explore the island.....with the warning "take great care at the far edge of the island as it's a sheer cliff face drop straight into the ocean.....and anyone that falls in won't be coming back!!" :o

    Anyway a few folk did manage to venture that far but i didn't as i kept getting attacked by wild birds (can't remember what they call them now) which are known for swooping low at high speed and often cause injuries to the unsuspecting.

    The few who did manage to make the cliff edge were rewarded with a view just feet away from the nest of a Golden Eagle with two chicks.

    I was fuming mad with myself at not seeing that due to these batty birds!

    Barra is lovely though and i really enjoyed my stay there. After Barra i then spent a few days on Tiree, another small island.

    I've loved all your stories! What a fantastic trip you had, I'm so jealous. :) They do say Barra is the most beautiful island and call it Barradise. :cool:

    I've really enjoyed this thread, and told my Doctor today to take the boat trip from Harris to St Kilda as it's only £190!! :D He goes up to Scotland every year, and has been all over the Islands, but he says this year it depends where his wife and kids want to go, I said, the Outer Hebrides!

    Did you see any Dolphins and Whales on the boat journey to Mingulay, or is that on the other side of the Highlands, on the East Coast? I'd love to do that too.

    So what did you all think of Part 2 of the Whale Hunters? I thought it was very interesting, and I'm glad this docu was made as I learnt alot. Ultimately I have to agree with the presenter, who was excellent, that I respect the men who worked there, and the life they lead, however I can't accept the Whaling itself. Was it all worth it? I personally don't think so. To know that the Blue Whale population hasn't recovered beyond 10,000, and that 3/4 million were decimated was too high a price to pay for essentially by products. If 37% of margerine still contained whale oil, I'd definitely be eating nothing but butter. Hydrogenated fat is a godawful product and should be banned for food consumption IMO.

    However I do accept that Native peoples, who rely on hunting to live, have a right to kill a whale and eat it and use all parts of it. They will capture one at a time and the whole community joins in using hand held tools to kill it and process it. That's the difference, it was the industrial nature of commercial whaling that was so staggering, the mind blowing numbers involved, and the fact that it was a cruel money making enterprise.
  • Bulletguy1Bulletguy1 Posts: 18,429
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    La Rhumba wrote: »
    I've loved all your stories! What a fantastic trip you had, I'm so jealous. :) They do say Barra is the most beautiful island and call it Barradise. :cool:

    I've really enjoyed this thread, and told my Doctor today to take the boat trip from Harris to St Kilda as it's only £190!! :D He goes up to Scotland every year, and has been all over the Islands, but he says this year it depends where his wife and kids want to go, I said, the Outer Hebrides!

    Did you see any Dolphins and Whales on the boat journey to Mingulay, or is that on the other side of the Highlands, on the East Coast? I'd love to do that too.
    Barra is amazingly pretty and because of it's size, you soon meet the locals! My favourite character was Neil the one eyed Shepherd.

    I first met Neil when waiting for the boat i'd booked to go to Mingulay. It was 8.30am and thankfully the little Cafe by the harbour was open so i sat there having a coffee and ciggie. Across the road stood a youngish chap with two lovely Border Collie dogs. But he seemed rather unsteady on his feet and the more i watched him i realised, 'my God, he's drunk....but it's only 8.30am!"

    Anyway he wobbled over toward me and even though he might not have been in full control of himself, he most certainly was with his two dogs, both of which were super obedient as he barked various commands (both were off leash). They obeyed his every word.

    I insisted on buying him a coffee (he needed it!), offered him a cigarette, and admired his dogs (i love Border Collies). Yes he'd certainly been drinking but was not the abusive kind of drunk.

    Neil is well known as a local character of Barra and instantly recognisable as he's usually got his two faithful dogs with him and secondly, he has a glass eye. I was told he has a fondness for slipping this eye into an unsuspecting tourists beer in the Pub!

    Drinking is almost a way of life for Islanders as quite a few told me, "you are only here for a few days....we live here and there's not an awful lot to do."

    When i was on the Uists, i was parked up very close by to a few houses. The weather was lovely, yet by 7pm everywhere was deserted.....everyone was either in the Pub or in their home.....nobody was outside!

    Seen plenty of Dolphins but no Whales. There are Whale boat trips and you can even see them from the Inner Hebrides too.

    Visited many other islands too including Mull, Iona, Staffa (Fingals Cave) and Eigg, but yet to see Orkney and Shetlands.



    La Rhumba wrote: »
    So what did you all think of Part 2 of the Whale Hunters? I thought it was very interesting, and I'm glad this docu was made as I learnt alot. Ultimately I have to agree with the presenter, who was excellent, that I respect the men who worked there, and the life they lead, however I can't accept the Whaling itself. Was it all worth it? I personally don't think so. To know that the Blue Whale population hasn't recovered beyond 10,000, and that 3/4 million were decimated was too high a price to pay for essentially by products. If 37% of margerine still contained whale oil, I'd definitely be eating nothing but butter. Hydrogenated fat is a godawful product and should be banned for food consumption IMO.

    However I do accept that Native peoples, who rely on hunting to live, have a right to kill a whale and eat it and use all parts of it. They will capture one at a time and the whole community joins in using hand held tools to kill it and process it. That's the difference, it was the industrial nature of commercial whaling that was so staggering, the mind blowing numbers involved, and the fact that it was a cruel money making enterprise.
    Brilliant brilliant documentary. I found both parts very fascinating and as the 'youngest ex-Whaler' (heavy built Scot with silvery hair!) said, 'for all its faults it's a part of history which shouldn't be erased'.

    Certainly when the hunting first began none of them could ever have known they were eventually going to hunt a species into near extinction. That came about really through the building of huge Factory ships.

    I loved the remnants of old Whaling Station on Georgia. I've always had a fascination for old abandoned buildings.

    Interesting to hear about the money involved. If you could manage it as a Whaler and stick an 18 month stint on Georgia, you came home with £1100......and could easily buy a house for £600! So in just 18 months you could buy yourself a house....cash, outright! Impossible to imagine a comparison today.
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    Bulletguy1 wrote: »
    Barra is amazingly pretty and because of it's size, you soon meet the locals! My favourite character was Neil the one eyed Shepherd. ....

    I think the first time I went over to the Southern isles was for a fault on North Uist, I think there was no ferry to Lochmaddy on a Sunday and I was nearer to Oban than the team that normally went there. The ferry goes into Castlebay on the way to Lochboisdale but it was too dark to see anything. As usual I read the papers, dozed and generally killed the time on the ferry. There was someone sitting near me who was also on his way over to fix a fault, he got talking to some others on the ferry. By the time the ferry got to Castlebay they had worked out they were related! I have friends from Barra, anywhere they go they will always find someone from there - the Mafia are amateurs compared to them!

    If you go to Vatersay it is worth looking at the Annie Jane memorial. A ship carrying 450 migrants to Canada sank there and only a handful survived. About 350 are buried in the sand dunes near the memorial. I went up because two Chinese seamen from WWI are also buried somewhere there.

    There are also the remains of a Catalina flying boat from WWII by the roadside, where else in the UK would they survive without being taken as souvenirs or by metal thieves?
  • Bulletguy1Bulletguy1 Posts: 18,429
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    lundavra wrote: »
    I think the first time I went over to the Southern isles was for a fault on North Uist, I think there was no ferry to Lochmaddy on a Sunday and I was nearer to Oban than the team that normally went there. The ferry goes into Castlebay on the way to Lochboisdale but it was too dark to see anything. As usual I read the papers, dozed and generally killed the time on the ferry. There was someone sitting near me who was also on his way over to fix a fault, he got talking to some others on the ferry. By the time the ferry got to Castlebay they had worked out they were related! I have friends from Barra, anywhere they go they will always find someone from there - the Mafia are amateurs compared to them!

    If you go to Vatersay it is worth looking at the Annie Jane memorial. A ship carrying 450 migrants to Canada sank there and only a handful survived. About 350 are buried in the sand dunes near the memorial. I went up because two Chinese seamen from WWI are also buried somewhere there.

    There are also the remains of a Catalina flying boat from WWII by the roadside, where else in the UK would they survive without being taken as souvenirs or by metal thieves?
    And it was still there in 2007! :D:D
  • barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    I'm sure it was a very good documentary which needed to be made for historical reasons, but I knew I'd find it too upsetting to watch.
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    lundavra wrote: »
    There are also the remains of a Catalina flying boat from WWII by the roadside, where else in the UK would they survive without being taken as souvenirs or by metal thieves?
    Bulletguy1 wrote: »

    Amazing!! Thanks again for both your great stories and photos. :)

    I thought the Whaler's graveyard on South Georgia was a desolate place with the young lad buried there who'd "gone crazy" and killed himself. You'd think the families would request the bodies came home. It's like they died on a far flung battlefield, and were buried where they fell. :(

    This Tuesday at 9pm on ITV is actress Alison Steadman's Shetland, a programme about her love of Birdwatching, filmed in Unst. Look forward to seeing the beautiful scenery and wildlife, and I'm a fan of hers too. :)

    More Highlands and Islands!! :cool:
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    La Rhumba wrote: »
    Amazing!! Thanks again for both your great stories and photos. :)

    I thought the Whaler's graveyard on South Georgia was a desolate place with the young lad buried there who'd "gone crazy" and killed himself. You'd think the families would request the bodies came home. It's like they died on a far flung battlefield, and were buried where they fell. :(

    This Tuesday at 9pm on ITV is actress Alison Steadman's Shetland, a programme about her love of Birdwatching, filmed in Unst. Look forward to seeing the beautiful scenery and wildlife, and I'm a fan of hers too. :)

    More Highlands and Islands!! :cool:

    Bringing servicemen home for burial only really started with the Falklands War. Some might say it is better to buried in a beautiful place like South Georgia then a local cemetery where the graves might be poorly tended.

    There was a programme on BBC2 just now that you might enjoy, should be on iPlayer.
    DOCUMENTARY: From Scotland with Love
    On: BBC 2 Scotland (02)
    Date: Sunday 22nd June 2014 (13 minutes left)
    Time: 22:00 to 23:15 (1 hour and 15 minutes long)

    Programme exploring Scotland's past and made entirely of Scottish film archive. Images of ordinary people from the past are edited together and soundtracked by the music and lyrics of King Creosote.
    (Stereo, Widescreen, Subtitles)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.tv/?p=1&r=7346

    Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

    It's worth checking through BBC Alba in the listings, there are some good programmes on there and they are subtitled.
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    lundavra wrote: »
    Bringing servicemen home for burial only really started with the Falklands War. Some might say it is better to buried in a beautiful place like South Georgia then a local cemetery where the graves might be poorly tended.

    I must say I wouldn't mind being laid to rest there myself, peaceful and beautiful.
    There was a programme on BBC2 just now that you might enjoy, should be on iPlayer.

    It's worth checking through BBC Alba in the listings, there are some good programmes on there and they are subtitled.

    Thanks for the info, I definitely will. Saw a docu on Alba via the iPlayer when it first opened on Dennis Nielsen.

    The Shetland film tonight at 9pm on ITV has got a horrible write up in Radio Times, but I don't care! I'm looking forward to watching. :)
  • La RhumbaLa Rhumba Posts: 11,440
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    http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/cxvqdd/alison-steadmans-shetland
    The actress, a keen birdwatcher and patron of the RSPB, embarks on a wildlife adventure in Shetland, observing some of the Scottish archipelago's most extraordinary inhabitants, including puffins that return there each spring to breed. She takes a coastal trek around the island of Unst in search of otters, forages for razor clams and sea urchins on the beaches of Dury Voe and visits Hermaness, where an ecologist records the sound emitted by the 33,000 gannets nesting on the cliffs.

    :)
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
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    La Rhumba wrote: »
    I must say I wouldn't mind being laid to rest there myself, peaceful and beautiful. .....

    If you like looking at the H&I then have a look on Am Baile, they have loads of old photographs, documents etc etc online. Also if you find their Twitter feed then they post one or two images a day and there is often a discussion on the location.
  • DeanDSDeanDS Posts: 1,605
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    ffa1 wrote: »
    Absolutely superb documentary about the history of Britain's Whaling industry. Part 2 is on next week at the same time.

    Adam Nicolson is a terrific presenter. The bits filmed in the ghost whaling factory town of Leith Harbour on South Georgia were wonderfully evocative.

    Watch it here if you missed it:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b046pb27/britains-whale-hunters-the-untold-story-1-the-rise

    Just caught up with my recordings of this, and totally agree with you. The presenter was quite endearing and it seemed to cover quite a bit about the industry given it was only two hours long.
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