Surely we should see the thing first at least, before having a fight about it?
Well said!
I actually did not think that "should we renumber 11 to 12" could possibly be considered controversial enough to divide the fans, but by this thread alone I have already been proven wrong.
It really doesn't take much to get Whovians up in arms, does it?
I for one am hugely looking forward to John Hurt's character, and I really am not that bothered if his "revelation" leads to a little readjustment in numbers.
The Name of the Doctor was far too self indulgent for me. Great for hardcore Who fans - but little for anyone else.
Where as Stolen Earth/Journey's End had something for everyone.
The public reception was very different too - Journey's End had 10.57m viewers and an AI of 91, where as the Name of the Doctor only managed 7.45m viewers and an AI of 88 (overnight ratings of just 5.46 million viewers).
There just seemed to be more of an 'event TV' feeling about the season 4 finale. The fact it had such a great reception shows it wasn't all PR (I know some have complained it was all about the 'fake regeneration' at the end of Stolen Earth - it clearly wasn't).
And I do love a spinning Dalek!
I do worry that people on this forum focus too much on what they/Who fans enjoy rather than what connects to the wider, family audience that RTD built such a wonderful connection with. I guess that's what worries me about the 50th - I would feel more confident if someone other than Moffat was in charge.
Happy to be proven wrong!
Aw, I feel really awful for what I'm about to say because I believe that everyone has their own opinion but you're beginning to bore and annoy me now.
The use of viewing figures does not describe the quality of the show, look at the numbers The X Factor gets, it doesn't mean it's better than Doctor Who. Event television doesn't make it good, it just means that a lot of people will be watching, people do not know who good something will be before watching it, they just expect it to be good.
It's the same with what you said about 10 being the public's favourite Doctor all because of that silly Poll. It's not like the entire nation took part, under 18s were excluded and there are many people who are too casual of viewers to determine which doctor is the best, especially those who stopped watching when David left. 10 is indeed a popular Doctor but I think it's near impossible to find an accurate represtation of what the entire fandom believes is the best doctor.
It shouldn't be about connecting the family audience, the show should just set out to be enjoyable for many people. I think the show explores to many themes to be labeled to one specific audience.
And my last point is the one that annoys me the most. Yes Mullet, RTD was very good, we get the point but I don't understand how you're still living in his era. I will be upset when Moffat steps down as I, as do many others, believe he's done so much for the show. I also think he is a brilliant story and character writer and find his story arcs interesting and brilliant. I loved RTD's era and I'm incredibly grateful that he brought the show back, he's gone now though and I can tell that you don't like Moffat very much but you can't just keep going on about how much better it was back then, it gets tiring. The show changes all the time, there's bound to be a period of the show you don't like that much but making it known all the time is a little bit tedious, especially when evidence given is ridiculous.
The Name of the Doctor was far too self indulgent for me. Great for hardcore Who fans - but little for anyone else.
Where as Stolen Earth/Journey's End had something for everyone.
Personally I hated those two episodes, so maybe not quite something for everyone I felt that Stolen Earth and Journey were also self indulgent, not towards Classic Who but to the RTD era in general (which was probably the point ). Ultimately there's nothing wrong with that but it wasn't to my tastes (which actually is a statement about the whole RTD era for me).
Aw, I feel really awful for what I'm about to say because I believe that everyone has their own opinion but you're beginning to bore and annoy me now.
The use of viewing figures does not describe the quality of the show, look at the numbers The X Factor gets, it doesn't mean it's better than Doctor Who. Event television doesn't make it good, it just means that a lot of people will be watching, people do not know who good something will be before watching it, they just expect it to be good.
It's the same with what you said about 10 being the public's favourite Doctor all because of that silly Poll. It's not like the entire nation took part, under 18s were excluded and there are many people who are too casual of viewers to determine which doctor is the best, especially those who stopped watching when David left. 10 is indeed a popular Doctor but I think it's near impossible to find an accurate represtation of what the entire fandom believes is the best doctor.
It shouldn't be about connecting the family audience, the show should just set out to be enjoyable for many people. I think the show explores to many themes to be labeled to one specific audience.
And my last point is the one that annoys me the most. Yes Mullet, RTD was very good, we get the point but I don't understand how you're still living in his era. I will be upset when Moffat steps down as I, as do many others, believe he's done so much for the show. I also think he is a brilliant story and character writer and find his story arcs interesting and brilliant. I loved RTD's era and I'm incredibly grateful that he brought the show back, he's gone now though and I can tell that you don't like Moffat very much but you can't just keep going on about how much better it was back then, it gets tiring. The show changes all the time, there's bound to be a period of the show you don't like that much but making it known all the time is a little bit tedious, especially when evidence given is ridiculous.
I feel very special that someone spent so much time posting about me rather than the show
Anyway, to respond:
Viewing figures do matter. Don't be silly, of course they do.
The YouGov poll was weighted to represent British public opinion. Its scientific. Polls like that are used to guide political campaigns, the development and marketing of new products and the investment of billions of pounds of private and public sector funds. If polling was 'silly' then it wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar international industry.
I don't care what 'fandom' thinks of Who. A lot of 'fans' on this site make that mistake - I care what viewers think. If the show becomes too self-indulgent (which I believe it is) there aren't enough 'fans' to make it worth the BBC's while making the show. That's what happened in the late eighties.
The programme is aimed at a family audience, shown during a peak family viewing time. If its not aimed at families, it should be moved to a slot appropriate to those viewers.
Its sad when those of is who don't worship the ground Moffat walks on are essentially told be be quiet and go away. I'm not living in the past - I'm just not enjoying the present. This forum would be extremely dull if it was restricted only to those who like the current version of Doctor Who!
Personally, I don't really view the YouGov poll as all that be all and end all. It's legitimate yes, but it's not concrete proof of anything. After all, the amount of people who took part is less than a single percent of those who in total currently watch DW. If we increased the poll to count the views of a further say, 3 or 4 million, then we might get something closer to the truth. (And I get the feeling that Tom Baker especially would have a stronger following in that respect, since in a lot of people's minds, he is THE Doctor.)
The way I see, it, there is no real decline worthy of worrying about. Series 7 was pretty much only 100,000 down on RTD's weakest series, and Series 7B was prone to a scheduling screw-ups on a remarkable basis (BGT Clash + FA Cup Final = inevitable loss of viewers), which I blame the BBC for. That said, one has to take into account the Live+7 figures too, as they give an insight into the iPlayer viewing figures. And DW is now more popular on iPlayer than ever before that's for certain.
But looking in general, so what if there is a slight decline? The AI figures have not dropped below 80. Average viewing figures have never dropped below 6 million. The show has been here for 8 years, and it's doing very well with no real end in sight. Hell, it's doing a lot more consistently than a heck of a lot of other shows of a similar lifespan. (I.E. Spooks)
And in all honesty, the 50th looks primed to be the highest rated episode in years. Timeshift will inevitably be through the roof, (maybe breaking The Snowmen's record) due to Tennant's return and the addition of John Hurt to the cast. If anything, that'll give the show a further kick in popularity for Matt to go out on, and the Twelfth Doctor to arrive in.
A number of unconstructive posts have been removed from this thread. Any further unconstructive conversation will result in action being taken against the appropriate users.
Its interesting that I haven't (as of yet) seen any pictures of Rose on set. It does make me wonder what Rose's role is going to be in the special #ThreeDoctors #WilliamHartnell
Personally, I don't really view the YouGov poll as all that be all and end all. It's legitimate yes, but it's not concrete proof of anything. After all, the amount of people who took part is less than a single percent of those who in total currently watch DW. If we increased the poll to count the views of a further say, 3 or 4 million, then we might get something closer to the truth. (And I get the feeling that Tom Baker especially would have a stronger following in that respect, since in a lot of people's minds, he is THE Doctor.)
The way I see, it, there is no real decline worthy of worrying about. Series 7 was pretty much only 100,000 down on RTD's weakest series, and Series 7B was prone to a scheduling screw-ups on a remarkable basis (BGT Clash + FA Cup Final = inevitable loss of viewers), which I blame the BBC for. That said, one has to take into account the Live+7 figures too, as they give an insight into the iPlayer viewing figures. And DW is now more popular on iPlayer than ever before that's for certain.
But looking in general, so what if there is a slight decline? The AI figures have not dropped below 80. Average viewing figures have never dropped below 6 million. The show has been here for 8 years, and it's doing very well with no real end in sight. Hell, it's doing a lot more consistently than a heck of a lot of other shows of a similar lifespan. (I.E. Spooks)
And in all honesty, the 50th looks primed to be the highest rated episode in years. Timeshift will inevitably be through the roof, (maybe breaking The Snowmen's record) due to Tennant's return and the addition of John Hurt to the cast. If anything, that'll give the show a further kick in popularity for Matt to go out on, and the Twelfth Doctor to arrive in.
I have a question for you gentlemen - Do the US viewer numbers ever count toward the viewing figures? How about if you are purchasing the series on Apple iTunes? (as I do - released the midnight after being shown on BBC America.)
Just wondering if we count toward the numbers being thrown about. I presume that the numbers are UK only from my read of the discussion.
I reckon Hurts doctor did something and then timelocked all the timelords and the timewar, sealing them in, but the thing he did is now about to destroy the whole of the doctors timeline, so everyone he has ever helped or saved will be on their own, Billions of lives will be extinguished.
Tennant and smith will then need to confront Hurt, hurt will tell them, "you can kill me for what i have done, and prevent our own deaths, and save those billions of lives, but to do so would mean undo every act i ever did, i did some terrible things to bring sanity to the universe, kill me and they will return, the timelords and the daleks will return, the timewar will be unlocked".
I reckon they will do something to prevent mcgann from regenerating into hurt, and instead, will go straight to eccleston with the timelock still in place.
Upon returning to "present day" they discover the timelock has fractured and Tardis's start materialising all around the doctors, both go to their tardis's and 10 says goodbye to 11, and goes back to his own timestream, meanwhile 11 is told he is wanted fot treasonous acts to his people, he is fired upon, and is badly wounded, but gives them the slip and as the search continues, as the show ends, the doctor is seen in pain, setting the tardis controls heading for amelia ponds garden, pursued by 7 or 8 Tardis's.
The perfect celebration of classic and new who? Really? I honestly think the 50th will be much better.
I guess none of us knows exactly what will be in the 50th. As Moffat has said, the only scenes we know about are the ones shot on location. Potentially well over half the film could have been shot behind closed doors in the studio - which means any number of old Doctor Who stars could be returning.
That being said, its unlikely that a single 60-90 minute film will contain a huge amount of cameos from old Doctor Who characters. Clearly the main people are 11, 10 and Hurt's doctor, along with Clara and Rose. That seems very heavily tilted towards new who. It might be brilliant, but its not the "perfect celebration of old AND new who".....
Comments
Well said!
I actually did not think that "should we renumber 11 to 12" could possibly be considered controversial enough to divide the fans, but by this thread alone I have already been proven wrong.
It really doesn't take much to get Whovians up in arms, does it?
I for one am hugely looking forward to John Hurt's character, and I really am not that bothered if his "revelation" leads to a little readjustment in numbers.
Aw, I feel really awful for what I'm about to say because I believe that everyone has their own opinion but you're beginning to bore and annoy me now.
The use of viewing figures does not describe the quality of the show, look at the numbers The X Factor gets, it doesn't mean it's better than Doctor Who. Event television doesn't make it good, it just means that a lot of people will be watching, people do not know who good something will be before watching it, they just expect it to be good.
It's the same with what you said about 10 being the public's favourite Doctor all because of that silly Poll. It's not like the entire nation took part, under 18s were excluded and there are many people who are too casual of viewers to determine which doctor is the best, especially those who stopped watching when David left. 10 is indeed a popular Doctor but I think it's near impossible to find an accurate represtation of what the entire fandom believes is the best doctor.
It shouldn't be about connecting the family audience, the show should just set out to be enjoyable for many people. I think the show explores to many themes to be labeled to one specific audience.
And my last point is the one that annoys me the most. Yes Mullet, RTD was very good, we get the point but I don't understand how you're still living in his era. I will be upset when Moffat steps down as I, as do many others, believe he's done so much for the show. I also think he is a brilliant story and character writer and find his story arcs interesting and brilliant. I loved RTD's era and I'm incredibly grateful that he brought the show back, he's gone now though and I can tell that you don't like Moffat very much but you can't just keep going on about how much better it was back then, it gets tiring. The show changes all the time, there's bound to be a period of the show you don't like that much but making it known all the time is a little bit tedious, especially when evidence given is ridiculous.
Personally I hated those two episodes, so maybe not quite something for everyone
I feel very special that someone spent so much time posting about me rather than the show
Anyway, to respond:
The way I see, it, there is no real decline worthy of worrying about. Series 7 was pretty much only 100,000 down on RTD's weakest series, and Series 7B was prone to a scheduling screw-ups on a remarkable basis (BGT Clash + FA Cup Final = inevitable loss of viewers), which I blame the BBC for. That said, one has to take into account the Live+7 figures too, as they give an insight into the iPlayer viewing figures. And DW is now more popular on iPlayer than ever before that's for certain.
But looking in general, so what if there is a slight decline? The AI figures have not dropped below 80. Average viewing figures have never dropped below 6 million. The show has been here for 8 years, and it's doing very well with no real end in sight. Hell, it's doing a lot more consistently than a heck of a lot of other shows of a similar lifespan. (I.E. Spooks)
And in all honesty, the 50th looks primed to be the highest rated episode in years. Timeshift will inevitably be through the roof, (maybe breaking The Snowmen's record) due to Tennant's return and the addition of John Hurt to the cast. If anything, that'll give the show a further kick in popularity for Matt to go out on, and the Twelfth Doctor to arrive in.
I have a question for you gentlemen - Do the US viewer numbers ever count toward the viewing figures? How about if you are purchasing the series on Apple iTunes? (as I do - released the midnight after being shown on BBC America.)
Just wondering if we count toward the numbers being thrown about. I presume that the numbers are UK only from my read of the discussion.
Tennant and smith will then need to confront Hurt, hurt will tell them, "you can kill me for what i have done, and prevent our own deaths, and save those billions of lives, but to do so would mean undo every act i ever did, i did some terrible things to bring sanity to the universe, kill me and they will return, the timelords and the daleks will return, the timewar will be unlocked".
I reckon they will do something to prevent mcgann from regenerating into hurt, and instead, will go straight to eccleston with the timelock still in place.
Upon returning to "present day" they discover the timelock has fractured and Tardis's start materialising all around the doctors, both go to their tardis's and 10 says goodbye to 11, and goes back to his own timestream, meanwhile 11 is told he is wanted fot treasonous acts to his people, he is fired upon, and is badly wounded, but gives them the slip and as the search continues, as the show ends, the doctor is seen in pain, setting the tardis controls heading for amelia ponds garden, pursued by 7 or 8 Tardis's.
I guess none of us knows exactly what will be in the 50th. As Moffat has said, the only scenes we know about are the ones shot on location. Potentially well over half the film could have been shot behind closed doors in the studio - which means any number of old Doctor Who stars could be returning.
That being said, its unlikely that a single 60-90 minute film will contain a huge amount of cameos from old Doctor Who characters. Clearly the main people are 11, 10 and Hurt's doctor, along with Clara and Rose. That seems very heavily tilted towards new who. It might be brilliant, but its not the "perfect celebration of old AND new who".....