Well, yes, patronising - maybe a bit But I can't keep myself out of it entirely, no matter how much I might try.
And I agree with you but then again, that is mans own interpretation of a text to push their own brand style of hate. There are levels of everything isn't there? Extremism of any kind just isn't good. Being a 'not very nice' atheist is the same as being a 'not very nice' person of faith.
Stating your beliefs is one thing, pushing them on to others in a negative, hurtful way is a completely different matter entirely. I don't think Leanne was doing that, she was stating, not preaching. She put her thoughts of death down, just like anybody else, but she was the only one to get pounced on.
True, on this thread she has done nothing worth pouncing on.
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No - probably more patronising if I absolutely HAD to put something to it, Jas got there before you though.
There are times aggression is needed I think, there are even times a certain amount of it is useful. I just don't feel the need to be aggressive about someone elses beliefs. Why would I? What about it would make me feel that strongly either overtly or covertly that I would feel aggression about it?
Does it bother you that I'm not in the least bit fussed despite not agreeing with you?
No - probably more patronising if I absolutely HAD to put something to it, Jas got there before you though.
There are times aggression is needed I think, there are even times a certain amount of it is useful. I just don't feel the need to be aggressive about someone elses beliefs. Why would I? What about it would make me feel that strongly either overtly or covertly that I would feel aggression about it?
Does it bother you that I'm not in the least bit fussed despite not agreeing with you?
I just thought the 'dear' was more than a bit patronising. and unneccesary
I dont have a problem with anyone having different ideas of what will happen to them after death.
Tailed off quickly though. You do realise that you definitely haven't seen 3 ghosts don't you?
I know what I saw. From a 9yr old with no interest whatsoever in the field of ghosts/spirits/paranormal/whatever you want to coat it over with. To only a handful of years ago staying at a hotel to visually see a 'shadow' hovering over me. As the old saying goes however, seeing is believing.
Of course however there is reasonable explanations and hoaxers. But at the age of 9 watching a person moving from one side of the room to the other without casting a shadow and literally passing through a closed door. That's all I need to know as proof something exists outside of our contemporary knowledge.
And yet that is my feeling from some of the things she has written, and I don't mean just on this thread, some of which makes my skin crawl, just as they do. So, just as you feel a particular way, so do I. I'm not going to say your opinion is invalid, and neither is mine, even though they may stem from different experiences.
Yeah, I get that. My experience is very different from yours, in that I've had Westboro people actually in my face, in gay pride parades and at gay funerals and stuff like that. So, I'm not meaning to discount your perspective, but just know that it's pretty different - to say someone is like 'Westboro Baptist' and to have some experience with them. It's just one of those things where for me, I am very careful about comparing someone to them because I know what they're about.
Her views are alarming. I think they're wrong and pretty much junk in how they are presented, so they are easy to break down into some "oh she doesn't know" shit. And I agree with all that. Maybe it's late, but I'm trying to empathize. I don't know. I'm defeated.
Yeah, I get that. My experience is very different from yours, in that I've had Westboro people actually in my face, in gay pride parades and at gay funerals and stuff like that. So, I'm not meaning to discount your perspective, but just know that it's pretty different - to say someone is like 'Westboro Baptist' and to have some experience with them. It's just one of those things where for me, I am very careful about comparing someone to them because I know what they're about.
Her views are alarming. I think they're wrong and pretty much junk in how they are presented, so they are easy to break down into some "oh she doesn't know" shit. And I agree with all that. Maybe it's late, but I'm trying to empathize. I don't know. I'm defeated.
Crikey, don't be defeated, it's all good, really.
Last thing I'll (try to:o) say on the matter: on the scale of not being like the WBC and being like the WBC, I'd say that Leanna is closer to one end than the other, and certainly not in the middle. That's my feeling, and I'd like to be proved wrong, but it just a conversation and doesn't really matter. I certainly didn't want to upset you.
The Biological Analysis and Theories and Afterlife Viewpoints section of this Wikipedia article explain what I was trying to say in a better way.
It is my BELIEF that the massive amounts of DMT that the brain releases before death give us the impression of an 'afterlife', whether it's real or not doesn't matter because it will feel real to us. What I like the most about this though is that it's a biological process that certainly does happen when the body is near to death, and because the effects are allegedly so consuming and profound, we'll essentially forget everything we've ever known and go into a different state of consciousness for the duration of the effects - so this could possibly include experiencing both eternity and nothingness at the same time. To me, it sounds like it would be quite fulfilling and after the experience, we'd probably go out 'at peace' as it were. That's probably the best anyone can hope for IMO.
Though none of this accounts for what would happen if someone blows a hole through your head.
Last thing I'll (try to:o) say on the matter: on the scale of not being like the WBC and being like the WBC, I'd say that Leanna is closer to one end than the other, and certainly not in the middle. That's my feeling, and I'd like to be proved wrong, but it just a conversation and doesn't really matter. I certainly didn't want to upset you.
You're not hearing me!
I don't even like defending her. I will probably jump down her throat when she posts again.
The Westboro Baptist people aren't on anyone's end. They are like crazy ass EDL hooligans (im trying to find a good analog for britain) who have absolutely nothing to say but make saying nothing SUPER LOUD.The WBC people are extremists, and they make a business of getting in fights and saying super loud bullshit. Maybe it's a reflection of American culture and maybe it's not. I'm an atheist, but my grandmother and mother aren't. They are fairly fair-headed christians who aren't complete assholes. I wouldn't compare them to WBC even in my worst of dreams, because it's like comparing all muslims to taliban, or comparing all british to edl. So lets get up out of these garbage comparisons.
I don't even like defending her. I will probably jump down her throat when she posts again.
The Westboro Baptist people aren't on anyone's end. They are like crazy ass EDL hooligans (im trying to find a good analog for britain) who have absolutely nothing to say but make saying nothing SUPER LOUD.The WBC people are extremists, and they make a business of getting in fights and saying super loud bullshit. Maybe it's a reflection of American culture and maybe it's not. I'm an atheist, but my grandmother and mother aren't. They are fairly fair-headed christians who aren't complete assholes. I wouldn't compare them to WBC even in my worst of dreams, because it's like comparing all muslims to taliban, or comparing all british to edl. So lets get up out of these garbage comparisons.
bleh.
As I said, it's how it makes me feel, which is completely subjective.
I was trying to finish the conversation off pleasantly between us, but I think your experiences are such that perhaps we cannot (that's not a dig, that's an observation).
It seems like nothing-ness is such a difficult concept to so many people. I believe there is no afterlife. Your consciousness ceases to exist. I'd imagine it would be like when you sleep, the time from when you fall asleep and wake up is unconsciousness and you don't notice it. Like that but forever (obviously without unconscious brain activity and dreams).
Not, you will note, "I believe", "I think" or "I hope".
But are the qualifications you're looking for necessary? I took the member in question's post to be a statement of beliefs. As came up in my recent thread, beliefs would not be beliefs if they weren't believed.
I could say to you "I am alive" - is it necessary for me to qualify that with "It is my belief that"? Surely that part of any statement is self-evident? I know that my example there is not directly comparable to statements regarding metaphysics / notion of heaven / afterlife / etc. but hopefully you get what I mean.
As I said, it's how it makes me feel, which is completely subjective.
I was trying to finish the conversation off pleasantly between us, but I think your experiences are such that perhaps we cannot (that's not a dig, that's an observation).
I'm telling you that you don't have the experience, and while your feelings are completely your own, please don't use language that you don't understand.
I haven't been through the whole thread but just to add my thoughts on the matter -
I am a firm believer in a afterlife. So much so that I'm actually a committee member at my local SNU Spiritualist Church. I'm also a A & E Nurse and like to think the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm not a medium or anything like that but I work with a lot of wonderful people within the church who are. People who aren't gaining any benefit, financial or otherwise for doing it. And it's not all hippys and old ladies either. I myself am the first to admit I probably look like something straight out of TOWIE or another of those awful programmes that you see on tv at the moment But I really passionately believe the spirit lives on in the truest sense of the word.
My late father was, of all things, a funeral director. And although he didn't actively go to church or anything like that he did believe there was 'something' more after the body dies because of things he had seen and heard over the years in his line of work that he couldn't explain away.
A lot of people scoff and I'm used to that. And of course for obvious reasons in my 'day job' I keep my thoughts to myself so as not to offend. But I am firm believer that we are here to learn and experience things and that when the body dies we return to our spirit form.
I have had many messages from my late dad, some of them things that nobody could possibly have known or guessed (he likes to bring proof with him ) and it has helped me in ways I couldn't describe to know he is still with me as he always was. The spirit is the person we know and love , not the body.
I hope that didn't all sound really preachy or anything
I'm telling you that you don't have the experience, and while your feelings are completely your own, please don't use language that you don't understand.
Just so we're square.
Weirdly, and just so you know, I will continue to use whatever language I choose. Now, I'm prepared to leave it there, are you?
Weirdly, and just so you know, I will continue to use whatever language I choose. Now, I'm prepared to leave it there, are you?
Yeah of course. I'm just trying get whether or not you feel me and hear what I'm saying. I've got no shit involved at this point. We can leave it alone, but I feel like I've been hearing you and I've just been super defensive. I feel like I got you, but I need you to say you get where I'm coming from.
We're bio-degradable so our decayed bodies become energy fodder for the earth. Consciousness blinks out and we survive in the memories and stories of others.
We're bio-degradable so our decayed bodies become energy fodder for the earth. Consciousness blinks out and we survive in the memories and stories of others.
I'm not religious, but I do believe there is a LOT of stuff we don't know or understand about our world/universe so I do keep an open mind about a lot of things including death afterlife, ghosts, etc.
We'll all find out eventually though but from what people who've had 'near death' experiences say, there seems little to worry about.
My Gran died about 5 months ago and the possibility of there being something afterwards does sometimes help with the grief. I will always keep an open mind despite being an Atheist.
Both of my parents died last year, one at the beginning and one at the end of the year. They're still alive for us. We talk about them constantly, laugh over the way that would have reacted to certain new events. They're still with us in the sense that who they were, the lives that they shared with us were infused with meaning for us and so they live on.
I'm an atheist. I genuinely don't need the comfort of thinking that they're somewhere in an afterlife watching over me. My comfort comes from awareness of the efforts that they made to give so much when they were alive.
Comments
True, on this thread she has done nothing worth pouncing on.
.
No - probably more patronising if I absolutely HAD to put something to it, Jas got there before you though.
There are times aggression is needed I think, there are even times a certain amount of it is useful. I just don't feel the need to be aggressive about someone elses beliefs. Why would I? What about it would make me feel that strongly either overtly or covertly that I would feel aggression about it?
Does it bother you that I'm not in the least bit fussed despite not agreeing with you?
I just thought the 'dear' was more than a bit patronising. and unneccesary
I dont have a problem with anyone having different ideas of what will happen to them after death.
Gordon bennett!! In response to Leannes post one person wrote...'Well why don't you just go and kill yourself then?'
In the light of that I'll let you get on thinking whatver you want about the 'dear'. In the grand scheme - it was tame.
I know what I saw. From a 9yr old with no interest whatsoever in the field of ghosts/spirits/paranormal/whatever you want to coat it over with. To only a handful of years ago staying at a hotel to visually see a 'shadow' hovering over me. As the old saying goes however, seeing is believing.
Of course however there is reasonable explanations and hoaxers. But at the age of 9 watching a person moving from one side of the room to the other without casting a shadow and literally passing through a closed door. That's all I need to know as proof something exists outside of our contemporary knowledge.
Yeah, I get that. My experience is very different from yours, in that I've had Westboro people actually in my face, in gay pride parades and at gay funerals and stuff like that. So, I'm not meaning to discount your perspective, but just know that it's pretty different - to say someone is like 'Westboro Baptist' and to have some experience with them. It's just one of those things where for me, I am very careful about comparing someone to them because I know what they're about.
Her views are alarming. I think they're wrong and pretty much junk in how they are presented, so they are easy to break down into some "oh she doesn't know" shit. And I agree with all that. Maybe it's late, but I'm trying to empathize. I don't know. I'm defeated.
Crikey, don't be defeated, it's all good, really.
Last thing I'll (try to:o) say on the matter: on the scale of not being like the WBC and being like the WBC, I'd say that Leanna is closer to one end than the other, and certainly not in the middle. That's my feeling, and I'd like to be proved wrong, but it just a conversation and doesn't really matter. I certainly didn't want to upset you.
The Biological Analysis and Theories and Afterlife Viewpoints section of this Wikipedia article explain what I was trying to say in a better way.
It is my BELIEF that the massive amounts of DMT that the brain releases before death give us the impression of an 'afterlife', whether it's real or not doesn't matter because it will feel real to us. What I like the most about this though is that it's a biological process that certainly does happen when the body is near to death, and because the effects are allegedly so consuming and profound, we'll essentially forget everything we've ever known and go into a different state of consciousness for the duration of the effects - so this could possibly include experiencing both eternity and nothingness at the same time. To me, it sounds like it would be quite fulfilling and after the experience, we'd probably go out 'at peace' as it were. That's probably the best anyone can hope for IMO.
Though none of this accounts for what would happen if someone blows a hole through your head.
I've always wanted to ask someone to visit me after they have died to tell me something happens afterwards.
Ofcourse, how the hell do you ask someone on borrowed time to come back and let you know what happens?
You're not hearing me!
I don't even like defending her. I will probably jump down her throat when she posts again.
The Westboro Baptist people aren't on anyone's end. They are like crazy ass EDL hooligans (im trying to find a good analog for britain) who have absolutely nothing to say but make saying nothing SUPER LOUD.The WBC people are extremists, and they make a business of getting in fights and saying super loud bullshit. Maybe it's a reflection of American culture and maybe it's not. I'm an atheist, but my grandmother and mother aren't. They are fairly fair-headed christians who aren't complete assholes. I wouldn't compare them to WBC even in my worst of dreams, because it's like comparing all muslims to taliban, or comparing all british to edl. So lets get up out of these garbage comparisons.
bleh.
As I said, it's how it makes me feel, which is completely subjective.
I was trying to finish the conversation off pleasantly between us, but I think your experiences are such that perhaps we cannot (that's not a dig, that's an observation).
But are the qualifications you're looking for necessary? I took the member in question's post to be a statement of beliefs. As came up in my recent thread, beliefs would not be beliefs if they weren't believed.
I could say to you "I am alive" - is it necessary for me to qualify that with "It is my belief that"? Surely that part of any statement is self-evident? I know that my example there is not directly comparable to statements regarding metaphysics / notion of heaven / afterlife / etc. but hopefully you get what I mean.
Suppose I said "JFK was assassinated by the CIA".
Would you take that as a statement of belief, or a statement of fact?
I'm telling you that you don't have the experience, and while your feelings are completely your own, please don't use language that you don't understand.
Just so we're square.
I am a firm believer in a afterlife. So much so that I'm actually a committee member at my local SNU Spiritualist Church. I'm also a A & E Nurse and like to think the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm not a medium or anything like that but I work with a lot of wonderful people within the church who are. People who aren't gaining any benefit, financial or otherwise for doing it. And it's not all hippys and old ladies either. I myself am the first to admit I probably look like something straight out of TOWIE or another of those awful programmes that you see on tv at the moment
My late father was, of all things, a funeral director. And although he didn't actively go to church or anything like that he did believe there was 'something' more after the body dies because of things he had seen and heard over the years in his line of work that he couldn't explain away.
A lot of people scoff and I'm used to that. And of course for obvious reasons in my 'day job' I keep my thoughts to myself so as not to offend. But I am firm believer that we are here to learn and experience things and that when the body dies we return to our spirit form.
I have had many messages from my late dad, some of them things that nobody could possibly have known or guessed (he likes to bring proof with him
I hope that didn't all sound really preachy or anything
Weirdly, and just so you know, I will continue to use whatever language I choose. Now, I'm prepared to leave it there, are you?
Yeah of course. I'm just trying get whether or not you feel me and hear what I'm saying. I've got no shit involved at this point. We can leave it alone, but I feel like I've been hearing you and I've just been super defensive. I feel like I got you, but I need you to say you get where I'm coming from.
I don't need it, but you asked.
It's a beautiful thing.
yes. this. thank you.
Both of my parents died last year, one at the beginning and one at the end of the year. They're still alive for us. We talk about them constantly, laugh over the way that would have reacted to certain new events. They're still with us in the sense that who they were, the lives that they shared with us were infused with meaning for us and so they live on.
I'm an atheist. I genuinely don't need the comfort of thinking that they're somewhere in an afterlife watching over me. My comfort comes from awareness of the efforts that they made to give so much when they were alive.
You're welcome.