Options
Protestants and Catholics
muddipaws
Posts: 3,300 Forum Member
✭✭✭
Why does these religions cause so much trouble in Ireland, I never really understood it. Also it seems to be an underlying issue is Scotland why?
0
muddipaws
Posts: 3,300
Comments
Hicks yesterday, Python today...you're on fire...
I blame the spicy food *wafts*
Don't waste your time, just go straight for the padded cells...
Or something like that:p
In real simplistic terms; Its not *really* about religion as such but more about republicans who want the whole of the island of Ireland to be part of the ROI and Unionists who want NI to be part of the UK.
Traditionally Ireland (ROI) is Catholic, where as the Protestant religion is tied to/imported from the UK. (I think that's accurate). FMKK has explained that aspect better below, basically the two religions fall onto either side of the fence on the issue of whether NI should be a part of the ROI, as a result of a lot of history.
So:
Catholic = Republic of Ireland and want to be part of the ROI
Protestant = United Kingdom and want to be part of the UK
So the tensions are about that, not the religion itself.
Massively complicated history that you'll not find a comprehensive answer for on DS. Needless to say though, religion is simply one aspect of it. Across Europe, the Reformation began a period of religious conflict and intrigue that would last for centuries. In Ireland, the majority of the populace was Catholic but they were ruled by upper class British protestants for the most part and there was a 'plantation' of protestants mostly from Scotland into Ulster to change the demographics.
Northern Ireland was created after the Irish War of Independence to give a strong Unionist (and Protestant) majority where Catholics/Nationalists were repressed and were de facto second class citizens. It's hardly a surprise that people turn to the differing religions as a unifying factor in entrenched societies. So religion is an aspect of the problems in Ireland but the reality is that politics is more important and that focusing simply on Catholicism and Protestantism is naive and lets a lot of figures and groups off the hook for what has gone on.
I've tried to make that as politically neutral as possible btw.
FFS, I type three bloody paragraphs and you lay it out way more simply and concisely before I manage to hit post. >:(
I retire from serious posting.
Sorry, I actually prefer your answer though, I didn't feel confident to do detail as the history is rather complicated and its so easy to kick an argument off.
Yes and apart from the Catholic Church changing their rules so priests could not marry and leave their wealth to their wives and kids the other major difference is Catholics are forgiven for their sins by a man in a big box every week and Protestants have to live with theirs
On one hand, I've studied a lot of this history and have somewhat of a lived experience of it as I'm from Belfast so I have a decent knowledge of it. On the other hand, I've studied a lot of this history and have somewhat of a lived experience of it as I'm from Belfast so someone will be along soon to accuse me of supporting the IRA or the British army. ;-)
You're reference to second class citizens and repression is certainly enough to put you in the pro IRA camp.
In some people's eyes.
That's exactly why I didn't want to go into detail, there are a few people here who are kinda reactive and they all have their own views and takes on what is already a complicated topic.
But its historically factual and I think he was about as neutral as you can get with his description.
Repression is a by product of empires and is a big part of the problem, whichever side of the fence one sits, its an element of the divide. If you're going to give a detailed answer then its reasonable to raise it without it being hijacked.
I'm neutral on the topic.
Indeed. Other than the fact that what I said was true.
Ok, I'm going to say something that some definitely will find controversial now. I don't particularly support the IRA but if you look at the history, it's pretty easy to understand why they exist.
With the introduction of real power sharing and legislation to ensure religious equality in NI, there is now a sizable number of catholics wanting to stay in the UK. Apparently the DUP think they can attract 'right-wing catholic' members...
Similarly, as ROI has become more secularised and the influence of the catholic church has waned, there is now significant number of protestants that would prefer a united Ireland.
Oh now that's asking for trouble.
True, I wasn't sure how to describe it in an easy to understand way and it was the easiest way to split the political sides and the religious affiliation. I was actually concerned that my description there could offend someone, as it could. I don't think you can explain it without doing that.