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New PVRs at Argos
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A number of new Freeview PVRs are listed in the Argos catalogue. Some of them (e.g. the two new Hitachi models) are even listed as in-stock in my local Argos. So it's not just a pre-announcement of models that will appear later.
Seems likely (from the photos) that the Bush and Hitachi PVRs are made by Vestel. In the case of one of the Bush models the photo certainly indicates that it is a Vestel (since it has prominent "VESTEL" branding).
Looking forward to seeing some user reviews of these new models.
Pete
Seems likely (from the photos) that the Bush and Hitachi PVRs are made by Vestel. In the case of one of the Bush models the photo certainly indicates that it is a Vestel (since it has prominent "VESTEL" branding).
Looking forward to seeing some user reviews of these new models.
Pete
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A quick summary is that the box is much smaller than previous models, thanks to an external PSU and slim SATA drive. Remote is the same, AFAIK. Connectivity is much reduced - all you'll find on the back of the unit is the power, one SCART, optical audio out, RF in and RF out sockets. So, no secondary SCART socket, no RS232 and no need for RF loopthroughs between the tuners. Software updates can be performed via the SCART socket, by the way
Software wise, it's the familiar Vestel software, probably in much the same state as the T845R v0.5 software, and v12.x T825 software. I hope people find it more stable and faster, but unfortunately I have my reservations - I'm still not perfectly happy with it from a speed/stability point of view, although I'm not sure which software version for boxes shipped with (v1.6 at a guess). For those interested, I've now made the T835 section public on http://pvrbugs.futaura.co.uk/ which lists some of the issues that I'm still "moaning" about
External PSU a definite negative IMO. Loss of second SCART probably no big deal for most people.
How exactly does the software update over the SCART work?
Most worrying is that the firmware sounds as if it has many of the same bugs and issues as the bug-ridden T825.
Pete
Basically, the 3 pins used on the RS232 socket in updates previous are mapped to 2 normally unused pins + ground on the SCART, so involves making a special adaptor which is easy enough with a soldering iron and a couple of parts from Maplin
Vestel are probably sick of me going on about the slowness of the EPG, which is fast initially but gradually gets slower and slower, and eventually after a few days of uninterrupted uptime the box then starts misbehaving. I've never owned a T825, but this probably sounds familar to those that do. I think speed has been improved a little, but it still gets slower and slower. Vestel's logic being that these boxes have LP mode and also a new "Auto power down" option (not sure if this in the shipped version) which automatically puts the box into standby if the remote has not been touched for 3 hours. So, with default settings, the box is unlikely to have an uptime greater than 12-24 hours in normal circumstances. My personal hunch is that Cabot are responsible for this problem - it is probably no coincidence that this problem started when Freeview Playback Group 2 support was added to the software (back when the T816 was the current model). I've convinced myself it is something to do with EPG search routines - performing manual EPG searches accelerates the symptoms, and can still produce the freezing live tv bug (goes back to the T816). Therefore if the software is now continually searching the EPG in the background (in order to update timers, series link, etc) then it would make sense that is sharing routines with the manual EPG search.
So there is no phono audio output, that's a slight negative for me, because I'm in the habit of listening to the radio without having to have the TV on. A freeview box with a pair of Logitech speakers is all I need, optical audio output and whatever you need to get sound out of that, is just to complicated, and why fiddle about with a DAB radio when all the stations I need can be accessed with one remote control?
I imagine the Bush features the exact same display considering the box itself is pretty much identical to mine, but the Hitachi is a little harder to judge. All I can say is that the LED display is fixed directly to the main PCB, unlike previous models which were connected via cables and therefore detachable/swappable.
It looks like they have taken quite a lot of cost (both component and, by making it simpler, assembly/test labour) out of the product. Since it is smaller, shipping costs should be reduced too. That should provide some scope for prices to fall at some point in the future. Being simpler also ought to make the hardware more reliable. If only Cabot could sort out the software...
Pete
I'll probably get this one anyway, because I've lived with the foibles of my now deceased Digihome PVR80 for a few years, and I have always found it easy to use
Thanks. That's just what I was going to ask about
Yes - to be honest, I'm a little surprised at the price points. I thought they'd be a little lower, but as you say there's time for that.
Should be more reliable as you say. I was surprised when I opened it up when I couldn't see any "traditional" tuners - i.e. no seperate silver boxes. Tuner performance seems improved to me, but then I never really had any major problems with the old models. Here I noticed that the signal strength tends to flucuate more, and usually the meter is much higher (95%+) than on my T816. Also, the main STB-on-a-chip, um, chip has a heatsink on it.
parthena
Think you find that the T845R was a stop gap model that won't be produced anymore. I got one last week but it was difficult to find - Argos were obviously running stocks down.
I guess Vestel need a model to fill the gap whilst they finished of the T835. They already had the T845 platfom and probably wanted to retire the T825 hardware. The SATA drive issue has already been mentioned as a possible reason.
Ian
I'd guess that the slow down is probably caused by memory fragmentation.
From power on memory is allocated in nice contiguous blocks that are quick to access. As memory fills and old block are freed it becomes more difficult to allocate contiguous block of the required size - memory becomes fragmented and slower to access.
This is an operating system issue. I don't know if Cabot created their own OS or used a propriety one. In this second case it could be difficult to get a fix.
I guess that for any unit without a LP standby mode (T825 / T845R) a power cycle would be required to relieve the issue.
Ian
It's just that there was never any problem like this with slowdown on the T810 software, or the T816 FP Group 1 software. It first reared its head in the T816 FP Group 2 software. The slowdown causes stuttering in live tv audio when the EPG is open and it concerns me that Vestel felt it necessary to mute the audio when the EPG is open to hide this issue (navigating the EPG while it is slow can also cause jumping/stuttering in any recordings that take place). During testing I managed to establish that the slowdown is directly linked to the number of channels in the channel list (I never saw any slowdown when I had only 6 channels, for example - one from each mux). Part of the problem is that this issue wasn't raised properly earlier, like 2+ years ago. I suppose in that sense it is reasonable for Vestel to think there isn't a real problem.
LP mode has its drawbacks too. It's a pain having to wait a minute or so for the box to switch on, and also the RF out is switched off in LP mode. So, if for example, you mainly watch live tv using the TV's tuner, and your TV is connected to the RF out of the PVR, when it enters LP mode you can't watch your TV either.
While I'd agree with the reasons you're doubting it, in the below thread a user bought one and gave me all the clues I need: single SCART, vestel looking UI, external PSU.
I'm also convinced by the three buttons with the same function in the same place - which has always been a telling feature of the older vestels. Futhermore Ferguson is now a brand that Comet have to slap on 3rd party boxes - in freeview land these are almost always vestel.
The photo on comet is clearly of an empty shell. Perhaps pre-production which would account for the vent differences? They have had it listed on their site since before november.
Maybe not, I'm quite happy to be proved wrong..
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1155122
Just wondering, is there an issue with the picture not filling the whole screen on the model you've been testing, futaura?
I would also miss the Phono A/V as I use this to feed the o/p to the kitchen TV, particularly as the Vestels have never had RF Modulators.
Colin
Have I got lost? I have Vestel T810, T816, and T825... and I've never seen a Vestel PVR with only one SCART socket
parthena
nay but the new T835 (basically the subject of this thread) is single SCART