Doctor Who: Time Heist - 20/09/14 (BBC One/HD - 7.30pm) Discussion

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  • Muttley76Muttley76 Posts: 97,888
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    Solid if unspectacular episode this week, though loses marks for being incredabley predictable. Still, it was fun and I enjoyed it well enough...not much else to say about it really!:D 7/10
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    Well I'm not contrary for the sake of it, but I personally enjoyed this weeks ep a lot more than last weeks, which was a fancy framing device about nothing in particular happening but paranoia.

    This week at least had a journey to go on, surprises to reveal and twists to shock us.
    Wouldn't say it was my favourite ep of The Doctor ever, or even series 8, but it was an enjoyable romp while it lasted.
    Maybe it's the slightly different genre-style, that hasn't really been attempted by Who before, that is putting people off?

    Anyway, I thought the telepathic manta-cow thing was a great creation, not surprised we didn't see it entering/exiting the tardis though as it looked like the costume was bigger than the TARDIS doors :D

    Solid ep.
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    Not quite good enough to rate it as Good so it has to get an Average.


    Knew there was going to be two Tellers even before watching as a (supposedly) spoiler free review had given the twist away with it's not so subtle clue.


    I did think it was going to be the Teller who set up the Heist though rather than Ms Delphox so they got me with that twist.


    It was pretty clear (from Capaldi's chin* ) who the Architect was as well.


    *They could never have done that with the 11th Doctor, everyone and their Dalek would have recognised the chin :D
  • doctor blue boxdoctor blue box Posts: 7,246
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    A_Zombie wrote: »
    Fair enough. Spoiler tags removed.

    (You can probably tell this is my first episode review...)
    Just trying to give friendly advice :)
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,939
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    lucy777 wrote: »
    Why 'thankfully'? That's an ace quote!

    He had some lines, alright - but often inappropriately directed towards other members. His inactivity wasn't voluntary. :p
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    A_Zombie wrote: »

    I was a bit annoyed that the other two in the team had their reward and not the Doctor/Clara though. "A bank where the thing that you most want is kept", or something along those lines I think the Doctor said. What could it be that the Doctor most wants? Or Clara? We won't know.

    The Doctor put the Rewards in the bank himself so the other two would agree to the Heist.

    He doesn't need to reward himself.
  • Brass Drag0nBrass Drag0n Posts: 5,046
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    Think I saw Abslom Daak in the mug shots of robbers/criminals.
  • saralundsaralund Posts: 3,377
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    I see 12's attitude to Clara as that of a father who doesn't want some young man messing with his daughter.
  • doctor blue boxdoctor blue box Posts: 7,246
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    Corwin wrote: »
    The Doctor put the Rewards in the bank himself so the other two would agree to the Heist.

    He doesn't need to reward himself.
    Don't think he actually put the rewards there, as we were shown he couldn't access the vault itself any other time than the storm. I think more he just researched what was held there until he found something they would really want.

    Agree that he didn't need /want anything for himself though. He was just doing it for the greater good because that's who he is
  • Lady of TrakenLady of Traken Posts: 1,314
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    Up to page 8 on the comments and most are after the show has aired so hooray to that:). Last year had over 20+ pages on some episodes to read through.

    I’ve just watched it again on iPlayer as I really enjoyed Time Heist.
    It’s pacy and the direction is at times feels straight out of the TV show Hustle or the film Ocean’s Eleven. I quite like the change in lighting from very bright to subdued lighting as the action progresses. The teller was a good monster and I liked the slow motion approach to his first appearance but I wish they had been a bit braver with making him even more menacing.

    Keeley Hawkes thankfully is a restrained villain not as over the top as I expected. I blame the clone for any over-acting! She is a great actress but the script didn’t give her any real depth which is a shame. As I wrote in another thread women villains are written like bossy school mistresses in Doctor Who and that's not good. The supporting characters are interesting enough with their reasons for doing the heist though.Just had a thought that Captain Hart or Captain Jack would have been a welcome addition here but that's my private fantasy. ;-)

    The relationship between Clara and Danny is kept to a minimum this week which to be honest I think suits the plot. The idea of the Doctor needing her and her resisting the urge to travel full time because she wants a normal life as well is a modern idea (started by Amy and Rory but their situation as a married couple was different). It reminds me of the state of life today that there is this idea that we are entitled to, and can do it all, have it all but I think next week’s preview shows this can’t be sustained for ever. Something has to give.

    I think the most interesting thing that the Doctor said tonight was he hated the Architect suggesting that he hates himself. I still don’t get this self-loathing from the 12th which we’ve seen since ‘Into the Dalek’. Is he just a miserable so and so like Victor Meldrew or is there something behind it. He knows he didn’t kill the Time lords so what is it? Older man doesn’t necessarily have to equal miserable git. I do find Peter Capaldi’s take interesting with the pithy one-liners. There is a hint of hidden warmth within him which we see through his relationship with Clara but I feel I don’t know him yet completely but early days.
    The element of feigned detachment Peter shows in the character is actually unsettling for me as a long-standing fan but I understand the need to shake things up. I suppose we were spoiled with the more’ human’ like 10 and even 11. I’ve been watching Jon Pertwee recently and he seems to enjoy being with the humans at UNIT rather a lot too and enjoying his cheese and wine.

    When the doctor said ‘Shut up, Shututty up, up, up is that the Malcolm Tucker- esque reference? Just curious. Great for a T-shirt as someone mentioned. I want one now!

    The resolution is a little too neat with the Doctor as the architect and could have been a lot smarter and much more intriguing if it had turned out to be some-one else instead- a proper villain. It’s a safe solution I suppose as they couldn’t have had a ‘hero to children’ such as the Doctor involved in stealing from a bank. I don’t mind it too much as its only in the last 5 minutes it comes out and the rest of the story still stands as all the characters have lost their memories and everything that happens inside the bank is true to their reactions. The Doctor is in charge despite the memory loss which is a refreshing direction this week.

    I voted good last week and will vote the same for this episode. Both very different but enjoyable
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Think I saw Abslom Daak in the mug shots of robbers/criminals.

    Kahler Tek (The Gunslinger) was there and what appeared to be a load of actual 20th century human gangsters.

    Slight "gaff" but if you watch that scene, there's only a few faces and they start repeating again - and they do it almost exactly as he says that he's information on every burglar. Apparently, "every burglar" ever comes to about 10 (obviously never been to Cardiff).
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    Don't think he actually put the rewards there, as we were shown he couldn't access the vault itself any other time than the storm. I think more he just researched what was held there until he found something they would really want.

    Agree that he didn't need /want anything for himself though. He was just doing it for the greater good because that's who he is

    He wouldn't need to access the Vault. Just go in as a Bank Customer and place the rewards in Safety deposit boxes like he did with the Bomb.


    As to the greater good, I notice they didn't bother trying to save all the Rich customers that were burnt to death by the solar flare.
  • FluxCapacitorFluxCapacitor Posts: 1,231
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    Flopflips wrote: »
    I second this.

    Plus, how does an interplanetary, time-travelling phone system work anyhow? Do they even have numbers? :-s And how do you guarantee they connect with the right doctor....? Is there some sort of time code in the number? Too many questions, huh?

    It's an automated line - "Thank you for calling the TARDIS. Please listen to the following options carefully. For the grumpy old man and his granddaughter, press 1. For the recorder playing hobo, press 2, for the fancy pants dandy or to speak to anyone at UNIT, press 3 ..."
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    Woefully poor!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 58
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    As I watched the slomo of the 4 entering the bank dressed in black, I half expected to hear 'Little Green Bag'
  • FluxCapacitorFluxCapacitor Posts: 1,231
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    I really enjoyed tonight's episode. Preferred 'Listen' but this was a good, solid, fun story. Was worried it was about to over complicate itself again when they finally made it to the main Vault, but luckily everything was explained quite cleverly.

    I feel Psy would make an EXCELLENT permanent male companion. Half man/half computer so different, with plenty of clever skills (e.g. Downloading) he could bring to stories, but still with plenty of humanity to be relatable to the audience. I loved him tonight.
  • Whovian1109Whovian1109 Posts: 1,812
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    Corwin wrote: »
    He wouldn't need to access the Vault. Just go in as a Bank Customer and place the rewards in Safety deposit boxes like he did with the Bomb.


    As to the greater good, I notice they didn't bother trying to save all the Rich customers that were burnt to death by the solar flare.

    If Karabraxos can get off the planet, wasn't it established that they all had time to escape the flare? The only reason Karabraxos thought that they would die in her PV was that she left them alone with the Teller.
  • CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,588
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    If Karabraxos can get off the planet, wasn't it established that they all had time to escape the flare? The only reason Karabraxos thought that they would die in her PV was that she left them alone with the Teller.

    Well it did show the first edge of the flare engulf the bank and lots of people running and screaming.

    Admittedly this was before Karabraxos had left so maybe they still had time to leave (just with a little sunburn) but it would surely take a lot longer for a random customer in the Foyer of the bank to get to safety (be that a spaceship or teleporter) than it would for Karabraxos who would no doubt have her escape method close on hand to the Vault.
  • Sufyaan_KaziSufyaan_Kazi Posts: 3,862
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    jinx2 wrote: »
    I agree and it's sad because after all the excitement of the previous 40 minutes I'm left with an "Is that it?" feeling. :(

    On first watch, I gotta say I agree with above, I just didn't like it. I rarely criticise the show and all the hardwork, but its just my opinion.

    I don't mind too much about the overlap/similarity with previous episodes (the conclusion of Hide being the most obvious as Saladfingers already mentioned). Its inevitable this could happen, with several decades worth of material already out there.

    Anyway, on first viewing it wasn't for me, felt dull as a story and a bit weak, lot of holes, like how the teller doesn't lock onto the doctor as soon as sabre dies, why Jenna/Doctor were taken back to Delphox, not made into soup, etc. I suppose there was an underlying dig at the banking industry being too hard and vicious but tbh that's hardly big news or interesting anymore ....

    Positives :
    Jenna - Wow
    The tellers - Great characters, if they return it should be on the Doctors' side
    Visually the episode looked great, very swish

    Questions/Comments
    -Was it just me, or did the Doctor nurse an injured arm/shoulder after saying bye to Sabre?
    -Was it just me, or did it seem odd that they bothered to show the goodbye scenes with Psi + Sabre on screen? In the case of Psi, the Doctor hinted "Call Me", they are both bound to be back one day ....
    -Psy distracted the teller because he was trying to save Clara. But he said something like, "All these criminals are right here in this prison, come and get them" I understand he has a mainframe brain, so he has images and info about them, but what? I didn't get this bit
    -Didn't the Doctor route the TARDIS phone back to the console already?
    -The Doctor gave Delphox his phone number because it was the only way they could escape, he planned everything to the last detail like the two extra transporters. But I think there is something wrong with the chicken and egg in this timey wimey. Future Doctor knowing about the storm somehow doesn't fit, I see how it helps them get into the vault, I just don't see how it could have happened, anyway this post is already too long so ill explain later if anyone disagrees or is interested.
    - I assume the teller locked onto Clara first because she was extra guilty (hiding her soldier boyfriend from the Doctor)
    .........
    I think the most interesting thing that the Doctor said tonight was he hated the Architect suggesting that he hates himself. I still don’t get this self-loathing from the 12th which we’ve seen since ‘Into the .......

    This is not a 12 trait right, someone help me out here, my mind had gone black, the episode with 11, Rory +Amy, the mind bending psychic dust gets trapped in the Tardis and that brilliantly played dreamlord guy effectively plays mind tricks on them via Leadworth. Whoever he was, he really hated the Doctor, turns out the only person who hates him that much was .... the Doctor, or atleast a side of him brought to life and triggered by the dust thing.
  • Vexed womanVexed woman Posts: 801
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    I really enjoyed tonight's episode. Preferred 'Listen' but this was a good, solid, fun story. Was worried it was about to over complicate itself again when they finally made it to the main Vault, but luckily everything was explained quite cleverly.

    I feel Psy would make an EXCELLENT permanent male companion. Half man/half computer so different, with plenty of clever skills (e.g. Downloading) he could bring to stories, but still with plenty of humanity to be relatable to the audience. I loved him tonight.

    I liked Psy as a permanent companion too ( after a long line of humans, a big change), he work great with Capaldi, could get close to Clara before we get ride of her and she goes off with Mr Pink.
  • FuddFudd Posts: 166,872
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    I agree with those who say strong episode but the ending felt rushed.

    The Director was not just saving the Teller and the mate; she was also saving herself. I don't think she quite realised the predicament the bank was in until the gang gatecrashed the Private Vault and basically told her. Did she want the Teller saved? I don't think she particularly cared about either of them; it could be argued that was the Doctor's reward for warning the Director that she needed to leave.

    I think the Doctor could have easily placed the 'rewards' and needed equipment in the vault as a pre-empt to tempting Psi and Sabri there. I doubt the bank would allow him in the vault itself to see his goods; they would be brought up to him if necessary, hence he needed the other equipment so he could access the guarded areas.

    So tonight we had another suggestion of memory loss and references to Clara looking different. I think I'm right in saying the latter has been mentioned in every episode of the series.

    Anyone else notice the Director's vault had an Egyptian theme? Just stood out as episode 8 is entitled Mummy on the Orient Express.
    The_Judge_ wrote: »
    -Was it just me, or did it seem odd that they bothered to show the goodbye scenes with Psi + Sabre on screen? In the case of Psi, the Doctor hinted "Call Me", they are both bound to be back one day ....

    I have the feeling they're going to be a 'future' version of the Paternoster Gang - popping up here and there when required. What made the Doctor pick those two in the first place? Has he worked with them in the past (which we're unaware of at this stage)?
    The_Judge_ wrote: »
    This is not a 12 trait right, someone help me out here, my mind had gone black, the episode with 11, Rory +Amy, the mind bending psychic dust gets trapped in the Tardis and that brilliantly played dreamlord guy effectively plays mind tricks on them via Leadworth. Whoever he was, he really hated the Doctor, turns out the only person who hates him that much was .... the Doctor, or atleast a side of him brought to life and triggered by the dust thing.

    The Dream Lord was a version of the Doctor, "awoken" by psychic pollen (looking back the reasoning is hysterical on the edge of ludicrous but it's Who so it works. :D)
  • Whovian1109Whovian1109 Posts: 1,812
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    The_Judge_ wrote: »
    On first watch, I gotta say I agree with above, I just didn't like it. I rarely criticise the show and all the hardwork, but its just my opinion.

    I don't mind too much about the overlap/similarity with previous episodes (the conclusion of Hide being the most obvious as Saladfingers already mentioned). Its inevitable this could happen, with several decades worth of material already out there.

    Anyway, on first viewing it wasn't for me, felt dull as a story and a bit weak, lot of holes, like how the teller doesn't lock onto the doctor as soon as sabre dies, why Jenna/Doctor were taken back to Delphox, not made into soup, etc. I suppose there was an underlying dig at the banking industry being too hard and vicious but tbh that's hardly big news or interesting anymore ....

    Positives :
    Jenna - Wow
    The tellers - Great characters, if they return it should be on the Doctors' side
    Visually the episode looked great, very swish

    Questions/Comments
    -Was it just me, or did the Doctor nurse an injured arm/shoulder after saying bye to Sabre?
    -Was it just me, or did it seem odd that they bothered to show the goodbye scenes with Psi + Sabre on screen? In the case of Psi, the Doctor hinted "Call Me", they are both bound to be back one day ....
    -Psy distracted the teller because he was trying to save Clara. But he said something like, "All these criminals are right here in this prison, come and get them" I understand he has a mainframe brain, so he has images and info about them, but what? I didn't get this bit
    -Didn't the Doctor route the TARDIS phone back to the console already?
    -The Doctor gave Delphox his phone number because it was the only way they could escape, he planned everything to the last detail like the two extra transporters. But I think there is something wrong with the chicken and egg in this timey wimey. Future Doctor knowing about the storm somehow doesn't fit, I see how it helps them get into the vault, I just don't see how it could have happened, anyway this post is already too long so ill explain later if anyone disagrees or is interested.
    - I assume the teller locked onto Clara first because she was extra guilty (hiding her soldier boyfriend from the Doctor)



    This is not a 12 trait right, someone help me out here, my mind had gone black, the episode with 11, Rory +Amy, the mind bending psychic dust gets trapped in the Tardis and that brilliantly played dreamlord guy effectively plays mind tricks on them via Leadworth. Whoever he was, he really hated the Doctor, turns out the only person who hates him that much was .... the Doctor, or atleast a side of him brought to life and triggered by the dust thing.

    I agree with a lot of your points (especially the bit about self-loathing not being a trait exclusive to 12) so I'll give you my thoughts on some of your questions.

    - The Doctor reacting to Saibra's hug was just another sign of how much he hates physical intimacy in my book .
    - We often see goodbye scenes on screen, especially when we're supposed to have a deep emotional bond with the characters, but I would love to see them again.
    - I think Psi downloaded information on all the information about the criminals into his head so he had guilty knowledge of their actions, which to him might even feel like his actions (it's not clear how his brain works).
    - Handles kept reminding him to do it in Time of the Doctor but IIRC he never got around to it.
    - With the phone thing, he needed to give Delphox the number so that they could even be there to rob the bank in the first place. As for the solar storm, presumably either Karabraxos told him about it or he sussed out the best time to rob the bank himself, as he has the entirety of the bank's timeline at his disposal so he could land the TARDIS at any point, sees that he can't land when he needs to so plans the rest of the scheme around that and parks nearby at the opportune time.
    - I got the impression that it had already locked partially onto Clara's thoughts. Also, it was established that Psi can block his thoughts and we know that the Doctor has superior mental powers, so out of the three of them, she was clearly the most vulnerable. It's also worth pointing out I don't think she's hiding Danny at all, he knows she's going on dates, she's made no secret of that.
  • FlopflipsFlopflips Posts: 146
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    Fudd wrote: »
    I
    I think the Doctor could have easily placed the 'rewards' and needed equipment in the vault as a pre-empt to tempting Psi and Sabri there. I doubt the bank would allow him in the vault itself to see his goods; they would be brought up to him if necessary, hence he needed the other equipment so he could access the guarded areas.

    The flaw is, if he put the items into the deposit boxes, then he was already a member of the bank, and so he didn't need her to clone the DNA of someone else, as his would have done. And he could of accessed the bomb, rendering her placement on the team totally unnecessary.

    Unless I missed something?
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    I also think Murray Gold should prepare an extra track or two as I imagine the classical music in the vault might need to be replaced for the DVD release
  • FuddFudd Posts: 166,872
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    Flopflips wrote: »
    The flaw is, if he put the items into the deposit boxes, then he was already a member of the bank, and so he didn't need her to clone the DNA of someone else, as his would have done. And he could of accessed the bomb, rendering her placement on the team totally unnecessary.

    Unless I missed something?

    It could be argued she was a 'spare' in case anything happened to Psi - she could morph into another member of the bank if need be to access certain information.

    Unless another Doctor planted the information so the bank wouldn't necessarily accept him? Thirteen, Fourteen, whoever could have put the equipment there for 12. It's odd to think that in any point of time or space in Doctor Who there could be more than one Doctor present (e.g. in Victorian London we've had Eleven with The Crimson Horror and Twelve with Deep Breath).
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