Windows Phone won't ever be a success according to IDC

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  • HurlleyHurlley Posts: 2,162
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    the app situation was the only problem but its a big one. The only other thing they had with Nokia is the quality of the hardware but now thats gone too. Even if they removed the Nokia branding they should have kept their build quality / design team.

    As much as i liked Nokia it was right for them to remove the branding as I used to get a lot of "You still use a Nokia" as uninformed as that may be its a mindset so it was right to remove the branding.
  • 1manonthebog1manonthebog Posts: 3,707
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    Another major annoyance for me with WP was quality of apps and lack of any updates. My iPhone receives updates to twitter every other week, on WP its maybe twice a year, the last time I looked Instagram was still in beta and hadn't received an update in over a year. And as I say they are like beta apps, missing features, buggy etc.
  • Zack06Zack06 Posts: 28,304
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    I think Microsoft themselves know that Windows Phone is a slippery slope.

    It's been 5 years since launch and consumers still aren't interested. That's not a good sign.

    It's telling that Microsoft has been pushing into the software services market with "Windows as a service" rather than a product. The presence of Office and Cortana on other platforms including Android and iOS supports that.

    If Windows Phone continues to fail in gaining any traction, their exit strategy will be to compartmentalise its key features and export them as services to other platforms.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    I don't see why a Windows PC user should feel the need to have a Windows phone.

    Years ago, I'd argue that for many things a Symbian phone connected and synced more reliably with a PC than Windows Mobile. Sure the latter looked more familiar, but does that really matter?

    Now you probably sync via a cloud based service and rarely connect a phone directly so it definitely doesn't matter.
  • MoleskinMoleskin Posts: 3,098
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    Reading the review of the Lumia 950 flagship on here it doesn't look too good for Microsoft, and I can confirm that Windows 10 for Windows Phone is basically beta and buggy as hell.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    Moleskin wrote: »
    Reading the review of the Lumia 950 flagship on here it doesn't look too good for Microsoft, and I can confirm that Windows 10 for Windows Phone is basically beta and buggy as hell.

    I certainly have a shed load of issues updating apps. Takes numerous attempts and often they freeze. What's going on there? Is the new store totally broken or is it that nobody at Microsoft was used to apps being updated so often?

    I do like the new UI and simplified settings though.
  • MoleskinMoleskin Posts: 3,098
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    I went back to 8.1. and I'm not updating it again until i have to.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    jonmorris wrote: »
    I certainly have a shed load of issues updating apps. Takes numerous attempts and often they freeze. What's going on there? Is the new store totally broken or is it that nobody at Microsoft was used to apps being updated so often?

    I do like the new UI and simplified settings though.

    Which version are you on and which model do have you been updating?

    I 've been updating my old L920 with Windows 10 mobile via the insiders preview and I certainly have none of the above, to the point I am tempted to do the same with my L930 which is my day to day phone.
  • gomezzgomezz Posts: 44,474
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    Moleskin wrote: »
    I went back to 8.1. and I'm not updating it again until i have to.
    Same here. And not just on my mobile but on my laptop too. And "have to" means they break something that I can't really do without which is where this story in El Reg today may be relevant

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/21/ssl_to_tls_migration_delayed_until_2018/
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    AJ2001 wrote: »
    Which version are you on and which model do have you been updating?

    I 've been updating my old L920 with Windows 10 mobile via the insiders preview and I certainly have none of the above, to the point I am tempted to do the same with my L930 which is my day to day phone.

    930 and I can't say what version as it's at home and I'm abroad. I did do an update quite recently though, which allowed most updates to eventually work after repeated attempts (cancel, re search and in some cases uninstalling and reinstalling).

    Very messy.

    I do so wish to like Windows Phone and also gave a 1020, 925 and 1520 - the matter bricked after doing the first update to W10. Now gets stuck in a boot loop and I can't reset it at all.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    gomezz wrote: »
    Same here. And not just on my mobile but on my laptop too. And "have to" means they break something that I can't really do without which is where this story in El Reg today may be relevant

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/21/ssl_to_tls_migration_delayed_until_2018/

    If I could get a tenner every time the register bashes on Microsoft , I would be rich by now.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    jonmorris wrote: »
    930 and I can't say what version as it's at home and I'm abroad. I did do an update quite recently though, which allowed most updates to eventually work after repeated attempts (cancel, re search and in some cases uninstalling and reinstalling).

    Very messy.

    I do so wish to like Windows Phone and also gave a 1020, 925 and 1520 - the matter bricked after doing the first update to W10. Now gets stuck in a boot loop and I can't reset it at all.

    Sorry, couple of things. Is your 930 sim free? Read somewhere that it is not advisable to be upgrading locked phones . Let me know which version do you have.

    You also shouldn't forget that you are getting these upgrades via the insiders preview, these are not RTM versions. MS release these versions of the OS with the intention purpose that people that are part of the insiders review to report back to MS on any issues on the phone performance. In my case I have been using it on my old 920, but so far no issues at all, that is why I am tempted to upgrade my L930 to the latest version

    You can also download the recovery tool to your pc, connect it to your phone and the tool will put your phone back to Win 8.1.
  • wiltwilt Posts: 978
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    The build of W10M going out to fast ring (and maybe slow) insider preview members is the build on the 950 and 950XL - it should be complete.

    It isn't.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    All my devices are SIM free, but yes there is a chance the problems were related to being Insider builds. Nevertheless an app store should work without the problems I've had.

    I suspect part of the problem isn't so much the phone or the OS but the actual store. Even with a superfast Internet connection, downloads crawl as if they're being throttled somehow.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    wilt wrote: »
    The build of W10M going out to fast ring (and maybe slow) insider preview members is the build on the 950 and 950XL - it should be complete.

    It isn't.

    The version 10586.29 is the latest and it is complete. You are probably referring to the previous one (10586.0) which came pre installed on the 950/XL. As I understand it, users were then prompted to install the .29 version which had glitches that basically were giving wrong indicaton on update/installation progress (although those installations were happening in the background), or low storage on ppl phones. MS removed that upgrade only to reinstate it a few days later (same build) without the glitches I have mentioned
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    jonmorris wrote: »
    All my devices are SIM free, but yes there is a chance the problems were related to being Insider builds. Nevertheless an app store should work without the problems I've had.

    I suspect part of the problem isn't so much the phone or the OS but the actual store. Even with a superfast Internet connection, downloads crawl as if they're being throttled somehow.

    In relation to the insider builds a few of the people in the windows forum reported that the issues they were experiencing after installing the latest build went away with a factory reset. Have you done this. Sorry for the questions. Like you I also have a 930 and obviously if you re having problems I might have to think again before doing it and I'll keep playing with my 920 until MS releases the RTM version early Jan.

    To the point that the app store should work without issues, I think MS makes clear to the Insiders that we may experience problems with phone performance or using any apps.

    That's the downside of the getting builds prior to everyone else. As I said earlier you can always revert your OS via the recovery tool.
  • wiltwilt Posts: 978
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    10586.29 also isn't a release quality build.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    AJ2001 wrote: »
    In relation to the insider builds a few of the people in the windows forum reported that the issues they were experiencing after installing the latest build went away with a factory reset. Have you done this. Sorry for the questions. Like you I also have a 930 and obviously if you re having problems I might have to think again before doing it and I'll keep playing with my 920 until MS releases the RTM version early Jan.

    To the point that the app store should work without issues, I think MS makes clear to the Insiders that we may experience problems with phone performance or using any apps.

    That's the downside of the getting builds prior to everyone else. As I said earlier you can always revert your OS via the recovery tool.

    I did do a full reset of the 930 a couple of updates previous as some apps never updated at all. I think from memory the offenders were things like Here, which never ever progressed and just held everything else up.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    wilt wrote: »
    10586.29 also isn't a release quality build.

    In your opinion. By the way, another update released Today for 950/950XL. And it won't be the last, proving MS will keep improving it, alongside the Win10 for PC's and tablets
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    jonmorris wrote: »
    I did do a full reset of the 930 a couple of updates previous as some apps never updated at all. I think from memory the offenders were things like Here, which never ever progressed and just held everything else up.

    I've asked for advice and feedback , as I am keen in upgrading. Will get back to you.
  • wiltwilt Posts: 978
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    AJ2001 wrote: »
    In your opinion. By the way, another update released Today for 950/950XL. And it won't be the last, proving MS will keep improving it, alongside the Win10 for PC's and tablets

    Not just mine:

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/12/windows-10-mobile-review-windows-on-phones-gets-rebooted-again/4/#h1

    And that's just the most recent article I can remember.

    W10M has been rushed out so that the 950 and 950XL are being sold before the holidays. The OS isn't RTM quality.

    The very fact that they have made a new release so close to Christmas shows it isn't ready. Microsoft is usually pretty much shut down for Christmas long before now - most certainly not pushing new firmware builds.

    Even the release of .36 last week was a bit of a shock in Microsoft circles.
  • AJ2001AJ2001 Posts: 619
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    wilt wrote: »
    Not just mine:

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/2015/12/windows-10-mobile-review-windows-on-phones-gets-rebooted-again/4/#h1

    And that's just the most recent article I can remember.

    W10M has been rushed out so that the 950 and 950XL are being sold before the holidays. The OS isn't RTM quality.

    The very fact that they have made a new release so close to Christmas shows it isn't ready. Microsoft is usually pretty much shut down for Christmas long before now - most certainly not pushing new firmware builds.

    Even the release of .36 last week was a bit of a shock in Microsoft circles.

    An article of someone testing an Insider build version on a Lumia Icon ? Really?

    I m not going to spend too much time on this point. Like in The PC/Tablet version, windows 10 will always be supported and upgraded on a regular basis and that will give you the attitude of coming here and say that the version released in 2 months time, proves that todays version was incomplete, was lacking quality, etc, etc.

    Not sure about you, I actually have been using it on a L920 and been really happy with it. Pretty decent quality to me with a similar experience to the PC version. At the stage it is today, well worth the upgrade from 8.1, at least for me!

    I take Paul Thurrot's opinion above any example you can give me, any day of the week (Someone else already on his thread mentioned him as a reference). Paul is very close to MS and very critical of them when necessary and not afraid of doing so. He has done it in relation to windows mobile in the past, the same way that he now says WM feels as robust and solid as iOS and Android, if not better, with the big negative being the lack of apps. However he concludes that, with W10M, MS might have arrived too late for the party. The next 12-24 months and the rumoured surface phone will clarify that.
    W10M will never catch up with iOS on market share, but having said that, I also think that Microsoft will be happy to have a share of the market that is decent enough to keep them in the mobile segment. I actually see a lot more scope on W10M to succeed in Enterprise side, if I m honest. I know a few and high profile companies in the UK that changed to Windows Mobile and surely a few more are in the pipeline.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    I assume most companies have now found other solutions, so can Microsoft get back those Enterprise customers?

    When WP7 came out, many companies were holding on to WM and devices were still being made and sold, albeit under the radar for most of the tech press.

    I can't help but feel that with most Microsoft apps now available on other platforms, there's less need than ever to have a Windows phone even if you're using Windows on a PC.
  • TextmainiacTextmainiac Posts: 116
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    JM said " I can't help but feel that with most Microsoft apps now available on other platforms, there's less need than ever to have a Windows phone even if you're using Windows on a PC."

    One major redeeming quality of Windows Phone is in the baked-in hardware Trusted Platform Module, and the extensive security, plus the remote management features for Enterprise.

    For most casual users these features are invisible, but, for 1.7% of us they seem to be important.

    But Microsoft, as with BlackBerry are swimming upstream against millions of users for whom the only mantra is Apps, apps, apps.

    WP works exceptionally well for me, the lack of frequently updating apps being a bonus, not a deficit. WP 8.1 Denim is pretty excellent as it stands, I think.

    I watch my chums with £40+ a month plans and premium Android phones and wonder just what it is they are getting for £480 a year that I am missing out on with my £50 dual-Sim Lumia. Status symbols?

    Amazon are selling £39.95 4G Blu WP's with 8.1 Denim by the bucket-load at the moment.
  • jonmorrisjonmorris Posts: 21,643
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    My point was that by now many companies will have found alternative solutions. Can MS get them back?

    And I agree about people paying a lot for 'status symbols' but at the same time, that £40 phone isn't quite up there with a lot of phones you can get for a lot less per month.
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