Would it be potentially more harmful if you power off/on when it's not actually in standby but rather just starting to come out?
Possibly. But, with my disk 80% full of stuff I've yet watch, I'm not about to do the experiment!
I guess the best advice is to treat the PVR the same way you would treat a PC. I.e. don't go hitting the power button unless you have to, especially if it is accessing the disk.
@TDS. Is there a reason why you are living with the problem you have - i.e. you'll only get a replacement from Humax or the retailer once you get round to watching all your recordings? I suppose that could take time because new recordings keep getting added to the playlist right ?
Would it be potentially more harmful if you power off/on when it's not actually in standby but rather just starting to come out?
I have power-cycled the box while it is coming out of standby a few times now... and nothing seriously wrong has happened... (touch wood). I would assume that 'coming out of standby' is merely gathering data (reads) from the box rather than storing info on the box (writes) which tends to corrupt on loss of power...
I guess the best advice is to treat the PVR the same way you would treat a PC.
If you think about it in terms of a PC, then you would assume that the Hummy (being a consumer device) is more robust... The 'OS' is not kept on the HDD, so its operation is/should not be affected by read/writes to the HDD. The OS would be keep on solid state memory somewhere with battery backup for last minute operations that needs to be done when power is removed...
So I think the lost of recordings is more to do with bugs in the software rather than powering the box on and off at periods of critical box activities...
If you think about it in terms of a PC, then you would assume that the Hummy (being a consumer device) is more robust... The 'OS' is not kept on the HDD, so its operation is/should not be affected by read/writes to the HDD....
You are probably right. It should be more robust than a PC. But it could still be writing something important to disk (e.g. updating the file table) just as you turn it off.
I speak as someone who lost all my recordings, and then a few weeks later suffered a disasterous disk crash on my PC.
marcdavis - I'm not thinking about returning the Humax (I love it) and we've had none of the awful problems that some others seem to have suffered - touch wood - just a couple of lock-ups (on whichever mux it is that generally causes bother). I'm just curious as to why it takes so long to come to life - even my old worn out late PC never used to take that long!
Curious isnt it. As per my post much earlier in the thread I've handed over information about this to Humax. I believe this information was going in along with a file being sent to engineers in Korea so one day we shall see what they say...
By the way I didnt mean to suggest taking your machine back for good. I meant to change it because of this fault with merely a swap out !!! all the best
If you think about it in terms of a PC, then you would assume that the Hummy (being a consumer device) is more robust... The 'OS' is not kept on the HDD, so its operation is/should not be affected by read/writes to the HDD.
Doesn't matter that the firmware (supposedly) can't be harmed, I care about the recordings on the drive. In real life my PC's (Linux ext3 & WinXP NTFS) are pretty safe to brutally power off, their filesystems are designed to deal with unexpected shutdowns and recover gracefully, so are the drive mechanisms. Rather useful since I have to hard reset the Windoze box most days.
The 9200 filesystem has no apparent resilience at all, no backup areas or file recovery, zero ability to survive some failed writes. I can always reload corrupt firmware, I can't easily recover lost recordings.
Despite being a consumer device this POS was only tested to computer standards (of the Win95 era)... and I'm not sure it reached even those laughable ancient standards.
...and that firmware. What happens if power shuts down during an OTA update? Still sure the firmwares safe?
I'm just curious as to why it takes so long to come to life - even my old worn out late PC never used to take that long!
Have you ever used the USB port? That's known to cause a gradual (sometimes not so gradual) slowdown. It wouldn't surprised me if other bugs can cause a similar slowdown. I've seen the slowdown persist across standby, only a hard power down resets it.
The other possibility is some filesystem problem. I've noticed my machine accesses the disk a lot while starting, maybe there's something confusing it?
Have you ever used the USB port? That's known to cause a gradual (sometimes not so gradual) slowdown. It wouldn't surprised me if other bugs can cause a similar slowdown. QUOTE]
I haven't used the USB - in fact so far we haven't done anything much other than record TV programmes from the EPG. I don't fancy swapping the machine as the replacement could be worse so I think I'll live with it. If other bugs (as yet unidentified because we haven't tried to use many of the facilities) are causing the problem, with a bit of luck the next software update will cure them and we'll all live happily ever after!
(By the way, how do you make the quoted text go in a box?)
steve, with people with faultless operation putting theirs in standby as well as those that never think of switching it off I think you have proved that putting your machine in standby or not hasnt got much to do with anything. If you have lockups then with your machine off when you are not using it merely means your machine is not on when there is something that trips up the machine and so misses that lockup. Anyone whos machine takes a long time to start up and it wont go away see about a swap out. thats my thinking at the mo
TDS, by the way, Himaxmay suggest an update to your micom version on yourmachinerather than a straight swap out. The reason I say this is because, and I dont know if anyone else remembers, but they said there were a small percentage of machines out there that had a problem coming out of standby and that the next micom version fixed this, if a machine had this problem. Keep us posted on what happens
Surely a software update can not be done while the box is in standby?
If the humax is set for an automatic update it will search for one every night at that particular time its set to while its in standbye unless you turn it off through the menu.
TDS, by the way, Himax may suggest an update to your micom version on your machine rather than a straight swap out.
Q & A website suggests that if the micom version is at fault the box won't boot up at all but I'll bear it in mind and try following the instructions to find out which version I have. Humax website suggests slow boot-up can be because the motorised system and/or STB upgrade is set to enabled - but I'm not sure what that means
I echo Jetbootjack's question - does anyone have faultless standby wake up (and what would that be?)
Hmm. Sounds like Humax website suggests a hardware related issue or the OAD update options in the machine need to be switched off. Have you tried setting the options in the menu so that the machine doesnt automatically check for updates?
Also, what do you mean by faultless standby wakeup TDS? Is there something we can check for you when our machines start up?
son_t - the TiVO keeps a live TV buffer just like the 9200T (only smaller) - so the HD is always running.
I just never thought to put any PVR into standby, I guess I see WHY it is desirable from a power POV.
I've never had a single hiccup with my 9200T - never not had a full weeks EPG, never lost a recording, never had a lock up.
Could it be because I never put the unit in standy is a reason I have no problems?? And yes I do occasionally use the usb transfer to my pc...
Does anyone have faultless standby wakeup?
sTeVE
I was quoting from the post above (last bit) but it's an interesting question - how long is normal - which I think Steve means by faultless. I'll try resetting the STB update thingy but bear with me because the box is only slow coming out of standby after it's been off for a while - overnight say.
OK. But it does only take about what you say for loader/ STING to full on, it just takes several minutes to get going at all. Thanks very much for all your help.
TDS,
That's what happens with mine - you press the On button, the clock freezes for a few minutes, then up comes the loader and Sting and then it's up and away.
I've reported mine to Humax now as well.
Turning off the search for updates did speed it up a bit, but not much. I'm wondering whether my being too impatient when we first had it and powering it off/on (probably while it was, in fact, waking up) could have messed up the boot-up process somehow.
Comments
Possibly. But, with my disk 80% full of stuff I've yet watch, I'm not about to do the experiment!
I guess the best advice is to treat the PVR the same way you would treat a PC. I.e. don't go hitting the power button unless you have to, especially if it is accessing the disk.
I have power-cycled the box while it is coming out of standby a few times now... and nothing seriously wrong has happened... (touch wood). I would assume that 'coming out of standby' is merely gathering data (reads) from the box rather than storing info on the box (writes) which tends to corrupt on loss of power...
If you think about it in terms of a PC, then you would assume that the Hummy (being a consumer device) is more robust... The 'OS' is not kept on the HDD, so its operation is/should not be affected by read/writes to the HDD. The OS would be keep on solid state memory somewhere with battery backup for last minute operations that needs to be done when power is removed...
So I think the lost of recordings is more to do with bugs in the software rather than powering the box on and off at periods of critical box activities...
You are probably right. It should be more robust than a PC. But it could still be writing something important to disk (e.g. updating the file table) just as you turn it off.
I speak as someone who lost all my recordings, and then a few weeks later suffered a disasterous disk crash on my PC.
By the way I didnt mean to suggest taking your machine back for good. I meant to change it because of this fault with merely a swap out !!! all the best
Doesn't matter that the firmware (supposedly) can't be harmed, I care about the recordings on the drive. In real life my PC's (Linux ext3 & WinXP NTFS) are pretty safe to brutally power off, their filesystems are designed to deal with unexpected shutdowns and recover gracefully, so are the drive mechanisms. Rather useful since I have to hard reset the Windoze box most days.
The 9200 filesystem has no apparent resilience at all, no backup areas or file recovery, zero ability to survive some failed writes. I can always reload corrupt firmware, I can't easily recover lost recordings.
Despite being a consumer device this POS was only tested to computer standards (of the Win95 era)... and I'm not sure it reached even those laughable ancient standards.
...and that firmware. What happens if power shuts down during an OTA update? Still sure the firmwares safe?
Have you ever used the USB port? That's known to cause a gradual (sometimes not so gradual) slowdown. It wouldn't surprised me if other bugs can cause a similar slowdown. I've seen the slowdown persist across standby, only a hard power down resets it.
The other possibility is some filesystem problem. I've noticed my machine accesses the disk a lot while starting, maybe there's something confusing it?
Surely a software update can not be done while the box is in standby?
...and I think it will do an OTA in standby anyway...
I just never thought to put any PVR into standby, I guess I see WHY it is desirable from a power POV.
I've never had a single hiccup with my 9200T - never not had a full weeks EPG, never lost a recording, never had a lock up.
Could it be because I never put the unit in standy is a reason I have no problems?? And yes I do occasionally use the usb transfer to my pc...
Does anyone have faultless standby wakeup?
sTeVE
TDS, by the way, Himaxmay suggest an update to your micom version on yourmachinerather than a straight swap out. The reason I say this is because, and I dont know if anyone else remembers, but they said there were a small percentage of machines out there that had a problem coming out of standby and that the next micom version fixed this, if a machine had this problem. Keep us posted on what happens
Q & A website suggests that if the micom version is at fault the box won't boot up at all but I'll bear it in mind and try following the instructions to find out which version I have. Humax website suggests slow boot-up can be because the motorised system and/or STB upgrade is set to enabled - but I'm not sure what that means
I echo Jetbootjack's question - does anyone have faultless standby wake up (and what would that be?)
Also, what do you mean by faultless standby wakeup TDS? Is there something we can check for you when our machines start up?
That's what happens with mine - you press the On button, the clock freezes for a few minutes, then up comes the loader and Sting and then it's up and away.
I've reported mine to Humax now as well.